• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] ENFPs pwn INTPs

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
I can absolutely be both rational in my thoughts and idealistic in my hopes, thank you very much.

True. Should not confuse a rational person with the MBTI rational label. "Rational" in the MBTI sense is just the label Keisey happened to think was appropriate for people high on the N and T scale. It's very possible for someone who is on the F/T border to have the temperament (hardware) of an ENFP, but some of the characteristics of a "Rational". They would have developed that character within the framework of their temperament.

Read this about Obama:

Rating The Candidates 7 – Personality As The Differentiator
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
ENFP are idealists, not rationals. ENFP's are one of the NF types. All NF's are Idealists, therefore ENFP's are Idealists. Idealists are not Rationals, therefore ENFP's are not Rationals.

Of course, that doesn't mean they can't use logic. ;)
I would have understood your joke had you left out your first sentence, if you were, or are, in fact joking, which I think you were/are.

But yet again, one can easily be a rational idealist.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
True. Should not confuse a rational person with the MBTI rational label.

:blush:

I thought she was referring to the label, not to the normal definition. I thought she was claiming to be a Rational, not simply saying that she was rational in the dictionary sense. I tend to assume the former definition because this is an MBTI forum.

Sorry I didn't get what you meant until now, CC. :doh:
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,986
It's not that people keep talking about them, it's just that very little new information is disseminated.

I wish people would talk more about Jungian theory or MBTI, but the best we get is this Cosmo-ish rehashing of the same arguments. People have almost used the same arguments word for word in the two threads I posted. It gets very boring.

So yeah, heart's basically right. This topic is like Maury and paternity tests.

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

Well, yeah. I think we've covered the "type is not the person, just tendencies" "the map is not the teritory" points several times.

I think CC was voicing a frustration that seems to come up a lot.
I think it stems from a frustration of being pigeonholed or sterotyped.

The same way we don't like it when all Asians are stereotyped as bad drivers (even thought I am both Asian and a bad driver).

It is so formulaic, that even I notice it.

People will often just say,
All <insert category here> are not <insert steroetype here>!
What do we really have to say about this?
Affirmative statements with "all," or "never" in it tend to be false-- An emperical observation of mine.

Since this particular set of stereotypes comes from a theory that people on the forum are familiar with and are studying. We set off another formulaic reaction:

But there is some truth in <the theory I am studying/exploring>.

I think the seed emotion for this statement is the feeling of not wanting to have wasted a lot of time. So in a way, we are defending our stake in the time invested.

So then we have this battle:
"I don't want to be stereotyped" vs. "My time spent was worthwhile."

We see it in a lot of hot button topics on this forum, not just in personality types, but also IQ and other theories/philosophies.

Anyway, hopefully that was a somewhat novel point to a very tired topic.
(I am not holding my breath, though)
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
:blush:

I thought she was referring to the label, not to the normal definition. I thought she was claiming to be a Rational, not simply saying that she was rational in the dictionary sense. I tend to assume the former definition because this is an MBTI forum.

Sorry I didn't get what you meant until now, CC. :doh:
No, prob!!!

It's all good. :smooch: <--- new favorite emoticon
 

Lateralus

New member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,262
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
Are smart people more rational than dumb people?
 

Electric

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
80
MBTI Type
entj
Sorry to butt in here, but it depend on what you mean by logical. I would say ENFPs are much more characterized by their intuition which they can mistake for logic.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,986
Sorry to butt in here, but it depend on what you mean by logical. I would say ENFPs are much more characterized by their intuition which they can mistake for logic.

Great minds think alike :D

I just posted a thread in the philosophy/spirituality section asking "what is logic?"
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Sorry to butt in here, but it depend on what you mean by logical. I would say ENFPs are much more characterized by their intuition which they can mistake for logic.
Sure, I'm much more characteristically "intuitive" than, "logical", but that's not what this thread is about.

Intuition and logic are *not* the same thing, not at all, duh.

Not only do I have a deep respect and love for logic, but I use it as a linguistic/mental tool in order to assess information and ascertain knowledge.
 

Electric

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
80
MBTI Type
entj
Hahahah you ENFPs crack me up by your responses. It's true that ENFPs can be logical in a way similarly to how ISFJs can be logical through training, but they are not logically sufficient in a sense. ENFPs are better sticking with their intuition which they sometimes do think is logic. Check ygolo's "what is logic" thread as I've just written a post there that might be entertaining.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
It's true that ENFPs could be as logical as anyone else, but you often confuse your feelings with coherent arguments.
Uh, no!!!!

I know when I am being all fluffy-feely, or overemotional, and during these moments, I am *never* thinking...Wow, I am making a coherent argument, right now.

I *know* when I am being incoherent, thank you very much. :static:
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Nobody is completely secure. If someone is ever able to push another person's button to make them angry, they are pushing a self-esteem button. The resulting hostile response is from their ego. You can think of ego as an emotional firewall with offensive capabilities.
Yes, you are right that nobody is completely secure, but I disagree with your view of anger being a sign of personal insecurities, because that is not always the case.

ENFPs, myself included, may actually get angry when they view/observe an external injustice.

When I see someone being mean to someone else, it makes me angry, and that anger has nothing to do with my self-esteem, nothing.
 

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
ENFPs, myself included, may actually get angry when they view/observe an external injustice.

When I see someone being mean to someone else, it makes me angry, and that anger has nothing to do with my self-esteem, nothing.

Ok, but why get angry? Where does that emotion come from? What is it's purpose?
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
I don't think logica/rationality/emotion have to be separate from one another. Like it's a give and take that the more 'rational' you are the less emotional you have to be. It's such a reductive take on things and sets up an adversarial stance when it comes to your own personal resources -- like there's not enough to go around and something has to give.

I think I'm pretty rational and logical or whatever the adjectives are that describe being able to see things accurately and for what they are and what would naturally follow from Step A to Step B. But regardless of my perception of things, I prefer to live based on my feelings, my intuition, my gut.

I make lots of decisions that one could argue "don't make logical sense" -- but even the most logical and rational person can have their decisions dissected and argued every which way for 'not making sense'. I know that and I don't care. I do what makes me happy. I think everyone wants to be happy in their life, regardless of type.

For some people being the most "logical" or the most "rational" gets them the biggest slice of cake in their eyes and personal satisfaction. For some people, letting their emotions flow freely and even engulf them makes them feel alive and personal satisfaction. Whatever floats your boat.

I think perhaps one reason, as others have already alluded, that ENFP gets a rep for not being as logical or rational (at least on this forum) is simply that most of the ENFP members here don't really care to win any logic contests or need validation from an NT (especially the obnoxious ones) in a 'debate'. At least I don't. In this case I think it's more a matter of not being interested in playing the game rather than being definitively logical or rational.
:yes:

And an odd fact: I am half-Asian and an "okay" driver, neither good, nor bad, just decent, lol. (It's in my blood) :smooch:
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
3,960
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Are smart people more rational than dumb people?

(someone already said this, in a different light)

we are all idiots and geniuses
sometimes the difference is unintelligible

the only difference of the two, that i see
is one is in general, aware of when he is one or the other
and does not seek to proffer it to the world in an arrogant way,
but for others to learn from
both one's mistake and one's accomplishment

any additional ideas ?
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
3,960
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ok, but why get angry? Where does that emotion come from? What is it's purpose?

Its called principle and empathy
just a T would stop someone from making a logical mistake in a theorem,
an f or in this case NF would get belligerent about moral inequity

Voila,
pancakes
 

typo

New member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
54
MBTI Type
INTJ

(someone already said this, in a different light)

we are all idiots and geniuses
sometimes the difference is unintelligible

the only difference of the two, that i see
is one is in general, aware of when he is one or the other
and does not seek to proffer it to the world in an arrogant way,
but for others to learn from
both one's mistake and one's accomplishment

any additional ideas ?

Or as Oscar Wilde is quoted: "I have nothing to declare except my genius."
 
Top