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Thread: ENFPs pwn INTPs

  1. #31
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I think it is more that our XSTJ culture here in the USA (probably UK too) wants to give emotion a negative connotation. The word itself doesn't imply excess, it is just that people view it negatively, so that any emotion is seen as too much.
    The principle at work is probably "the man in the street". The man in the street is meant to be rational, possessing common sense, and fundamentally male. Sure, he's an outdated concept. But he won't be overly emotional. Someone more emotional than the "man in the street" is therefore abnormal, by this own perverted definition.

  2. #32
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I think it is more that our XSTJ culture here in the USA (probably UK too) wants to give emotion a negative connotation. The word itself doesn't imply excess, it is just that people view it negatively, so that any emotion is seen as too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The principle at work is probably "the man in the street". The man in the street is meant to be rational, possessing common sense, and fundamentally male. Sure, he's an outdated concept. But he won't be overly emotional. Someone more emotional than the "man in the street" is therefore abnormal, by this own perverted definition.
    Yes, you said it better. This is what I was getting at.

  3. #33
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    (If P then Q) If all cats are black then Shade is black.
    (Q) Shade is black
    Therefore,
    (P) All cats are black
    This is invalid i.e. the truth of the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Q does not "back up" P if Q is a consequence of P. The only way which this argument can be valid is if P is equal to Q i.e. if P then P. But who considers P a good reason for P? It is impossible for CaptainChick to avoid your charge like this, so what is the alternative?

    This is invalid for a different reason. You have not explicitly defined Shade as an element of the set of all black cats. By convention upper case letters denote sets, lower case letters denote elements or instances of sets. One cannot assign a truth value to a set.

    Damn feelers can't argue logic. Stick to feeling!

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    This is invalid for a different reason. You have not explicitly defined Shade as an element of the set of all black cats. By convention upper case letters denote sets, lower case letters denote elements or instances of sets. One cannot assign a truth value to a set.

    Damn feelers can't argue logic. Stick to feeling!
    LOL, did you consider the idea that the type he entered was a joke?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    This is invalid for a different reason. You have not explicitly defined Shade as an element of the set of all black cats. By convention upper case letters denote sets, lower case letters denote elements or instances of sets. One cannot assign a truth value to a set.

    Damn feelers can't argue logic. Stick to feeling!
    Just kidding! I know you are rational. Actually thinking rationally is not the same as thinking logically.


    Thinkers are about analysis. Feelers are more about empathy and compassion. So for example, to reuse someone else's analogy, a thinker might reason that it makes more sense to build road to reduce the cost of and increase the efficiency of transporting food and supplies to starving children, whereas a feeler might want to use the money to feed starving children now rather than spend on the infrastructure. That's the difference between reasoning and feeling.

    An irrational person is basically a person with low self-esteem. Their ego is distorting their view of reality. Meaning there is a disconnect between what they are perceiving and what is actually going on.

  6. #36
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Rational v. Irrational is a position of empirical perspective.

    The "intellectual" ideal that is stapled to the "Rational" mindset is a misnomer inflated by the constituent parties that populate it's deomgraphic.

    All types are "Rational". All types are "Irrational".

  7. #37
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    It's true that ENFPs could be as logical as anyone else, but you often confuse your feelings with coherent arguments.

  8. #38
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    An irrational person is basically a person with low self-esteem. Their ego is distorting their view of reality. Meaning there is a disconnect between what they are perceiving and what is actually going on.
    Very insightful!!!

    But secure idiots, so too, can be irrational.

    And someone who is temporarily flooded with emotions may also temporarily act/be irrational.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    It's true that ENFPs could be as logical as anyone else, but you often confuse your feelings with coherent arguments.
    It's interesting that you bring this up. I've seen many INTPs do this when debating issues like health care.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #40
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I think the defensive nature of this thread undermines its own purpose by insinuating that emotion is worse than logic. At least that's what I took from it.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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