[ENFP] ENFPs Who Relate Somewhat to the Keirsey Artisan (SP) Description

[Thalassa]

i think my actions are more like SPs' but my motivations are more akin to an NF or NT's.

Well I don't give a fuck about being a "messiah" or a "wizard" although Keirsey attributes that to NFs, I think virtuoso makes more sense for me in terms of my writing.

I'm also a little more competitive like an SP, noticed that I'm more competitive than MANY NFs on this forum even when it comes to debating and things.

I've also gained major self-esteem in my life by bold acts, like I love it when people say "I could never move 3,000 miles away from my family in a city knowing no one or hardly anyone and just kind of ...see what happens." I also used to take risks as a child/teenager, but I would say they were more audacious socially rather than necessarily physically, though I did take occasional physical risks on my bike or something, it was more along the lines of being brave enough to say...become a stripper when I was 18 years old.

I can't stand being afraid to live my life. That's why it's so ironic that I have an anxiety disorder (which I think may be post-traumatic stress disorder, actually) because I'm always taking these big risks...my panic attacks didn't even start until I'd flipped several cars over or totalled them, ran away multiple times, etc....I was well into my early twenties. It was so fucking weird that I was this crazy daring person who was suddenly terrified of the STUPIDEST SHIT.

Classic counterphobic type 6, lol.

 

[Viridian]

But yeah, there are aspects of Artisan that I do relate to. One thing that aggravated me about Keirsey's stuff is that Artisan and Idealist are presented as like polar opposites but I identify with both of them quite a bit.

They're considered opposites due to the concrete/abstract and pragmatic/cooperative axes; however, this becomes null when we add the structure/motive axis, as shown here.

 

[stalemate]

Well I don't give a fuck about being a "messiah"

Now I'm wondering if the real messiah wold give a fuck about being a messiah. I don't know. I'd imagine not though. I mean if you are the messiah, why would you care? To you, you probably just are. I mean, kind of like how in Italy, Italian food is just food.

I am kind of in one of those moods...

 

[stalemate]

They're considered opposites due to the concrete/abstract and pragmatic/cooperative axes; however, this becomes null when we add the structure/motive axis, as shown here.

Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.

You're so awesome. lol.

 

[Thalassa]

Now I'm wondering if the real messiah wold give a fuck about being a messiah. I don't know. I'd imagine not though. I mean if you are the messiah, why would you care? To you, you probably just are. I mean, kind of like how in Italy, Italian food is just food.

I am kind of in one of those moods...

Oh missed this. This is where that whole authenticity and self-actualization part of being an NF comes in, though. Rather than being a "messiah" I just want to leave my mark on the world with Who I Am.

I've also had the realization that Small Acts of Kindness are really the best way to Change People's Lives. But then again that almost seems like a Sensor thing.

Having A Grand Plan didn't suit me at all, and I have no desire to Rebuild The System, I just want to avoid it, except where I really feel it's having a serious impact on people's ability to survive (mostly to do with things like economy and health care, things that many people care about regardless of personality type...I met a woman I swear is either hardcore ESTP or ESTJ - when it comes to work she basically bosses people around, pulls no punches, and can't stand to just sit and wait and gets annoyed with those who do...thank god I don't work with her lol - who otherwise sounded almost like me with her rant the other night about The State of Things).

But yeah I Champion Causes I think, which is why ENFP suits me best. That and honestly under stress or excitement I can't keep my fucking mouth shut. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

 

[stalemate]

I get where you are coming from. I feel like Idealist comes off like I should be the next Ghandi or something. Ummm... no.

I don't want to go on some epic ideological crusade or something like that.

 

[skylights]

what? who are you guys kidding? i want to be the messiah and shit. go on some epic ideological journey and fight to protect humanity and the universe. i always had those "you are the Chosen One" matrixy daydreams, where i am the special leader savior healer whateverer and get to save the planet and be really significant and whatnot.

you know, like

well, at least that means i have less competition!

I'm also a little more competitive like an SP, noticed that I'm more competitive than MANY NFs on this forum even when it comes to debating and things.

I've also gained major self-esteem in my life by bold acts, like I love it when people say "I could never move 3,000 miles away from my family in a city knowing no one or hardly anyone and just kind of ...see what happens." I also used to take risks as a child/teenager, but I would say they were more audacious socially rather than necessarily physically, though I did take occasional physical risks on my bike or something, it was more along the lines of being brave enough to say...become a stripper when I was 18 years old.

I can't stand being afraid to live my life. That's why it's so ironic that I have an anxiety disorder (which I think may be post-traumatic stress disorder, actually) because I'm always taking these big risks...my panic attacks didn't even start until I'd flipped several cars over or totalled them, ran away multiple times, etc....I was well into my early twenties. It was so fucking weird that I was this crazy daring person who was suddenly terrified of the STUPIDEST SHIT.

yes indeedy, you are more dynamic than the average NF, i think. you definitely have way more SP than me. more dynamite and pizazz and kickass whatnot.

They're considered opposites due to the concrete/abstract and pragmatic/cooperative axes; however, this becomes null when we add the structure/motive axis, as shown here.

ah, interesting.

Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.

it's the damn trademarks that get me. i read it in my head like this: "theorist TEE EM!"

 

[stalemate]

what? who are you guys kidding? i want to be the messiah and shit. go on some epic ideological journey and fight to protect humanity and the universe. i always had those "you are the Chosen One" matrixy daydreams, where i am the special leader savior healer whateverer and get to save the planet and be really significant and whatnot.

I do have thoughts like I am destined for something big (that sounds really dumb) but not that I necessarily want that thing.

Does being the messiah come with some cool sandals?

 

[Rebe]

I took the color/animal quiz...and I relate more to the Green than the Blue, but the scores are close enough. I am definitely more NT than SP. That's probably common for INFPs whereas ENFPs can display very Se-like actions and behavior due to their dominant Ne, the need to experience and have fun and be crazy. ENFPs are the wild children of the NFs, no doubt about it.

I have never thought the world could be saved, but I definitely want to "contribute my efforts" so I am in between the two standpoints above, between doing the small things to make a difference and being the grand messiah. To me, changing the world is a group effort.

Although I always daydream of being singularly praised for being awesome and being one of the few who pioneers programs to ... change the world ... heehee. But that's not the same as having a messiah complex...hmmm...

Kiersey is ... it ... makes some good points. I have read better descriptions. Will have to read it again to make specific comments.

 

[Thalassa]

I do have thoughts like I am destined for something big (that sounds really dumb) but not that I necessarily want that thing.

Does being the messiah come with some cool sandals?

My beliefs are little more...um...ah...it's weird because I'm very egocentric in one way (ME GLORIOUS ME) but on the other hand I believe that Universe/Love/Tao whatever you want to call it can speak through ANY PERSON if you be still and listen. I am as capable of blocking or accepting that vibe as any other human being.

And basically that vibe of goodness and love wants me to feed stray cats and give my roommate's little brother something to put on the scab on his ear. I don't believe that I am anything special in terms of being a spiritual leader, though I do feel at times like I have a destiny or a path, it doesn't strike me as anything intrinsic to me...I think all people have one, if they choose to follow it or fight it is their choice.

I think I am Champion, though, first and foremost, because I want to voice the causes of groups of people who I feel are at risk or being oppressed. In that sense, I feel very much ENFP, much more so than being a Healer, and I don't think I'm patient enough or have the skills and dedication to others a Counselor has, and I definitely can't be bothered to be a Teacher...that sounds like hell on earth to me.

But I can speak out for people, I'm very happy to write and speak about the plight of common people. It would exhaust me for it to be a job or to be my life's mission, though. I honestly want nothing to do with politics in a big way.

I still have too much of a Performer/Composer streak in me or something, that I would prefer to do something less emotionally taxing...seriously. Writing fiction, decorating cakes, or something like that sounds much more appealing and realistic to me.

 

[skylights]

^ i echo this about a ME GLORIOUS ME / love-universe-dao-all people are good and speshul and important thing. and not being a spiritual leader or anything, but having a destiny/path (as do all people). i do have a thing for politics and organizations, personally, i like organizing and mobilizing people, though. i'm pretty solidly stuck between INFP healer and ENTP inventor, with a bizarre ENFJ teacher streak somewhere in there. i love to decorate and plan and put together aesthetic things but i feel the compulsion to do something different for my career... as much as i love art i think humanism and curiosity both win out.

Love. Simplicity. Modesty.

that seems pretty SP of you too, actually. simplicity and modesty. not that all SPs value those attributes, but i think NFs in general tend to idealize complexity and be pretentious.

I do have thoughts like I am destined for something big (that sounds really dumb) but not that I necessarily want that thing.

Does being the messiah come with some cool sandals?

looks like INTJ nerd sandals

 

[stalemate]

Are those Tevas?

 

[skylights]

looks like it. or maybe gurkees.

but not to get too off topic...

NF jesus:

.

SP jesus:

.

SJ jesus:

.

NT jesus:

.

(^ NT jesus Ctrl+Ss...)

 

[lunalum]

So I can tell if someone is more NF or SP by their sandals? Those sandals there look more SP

 

[Thalassa]

So I can tell if someone is more NF or SP by their sandals? Those sandals there look more SP

No no these are the sandals I wear when I'm in an SP mood

 

[Thalassa]

I have a funny story. When I was looking for that picture, I put in "platform sandals" in google and it brought up all of these open-toed stilettos which just annoyed me to no end, because those aren't platform sandals (I know - I've been obsessed with platform sandals since my teens) so my roommate tells me to type "platform sandals that are not a fucking stiletto" so then, naturally, because of the word "fucking," rather than wedge-heeled platforms, stripper shoes pop up lol.

 

[lunalum]

Perfect!

I believe these shoes are the NT/SP equivalent

I shall have to learn to walk in very high heels to accomodate my SP side...

 

[lunalum]

I have a funny story. When I was looking for that picture, I put in "platform sandals" in google and it brought up all of these open-toed stilettos which just annoyed me to no end, because those aren't platform sandals (I know - I've been obsessed with platform sandals since my teens) so my roommate tells me to type "platform sandals that are not a fucking stiletto" so then, naturally, because of the word "fucking," rather than wedge-heeled platforms, stripper shoes pop up lol.

 

[Viridian]

Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.

Er, I'm uh, sorry? For the page, I mean.

I did like the fact that they used more "neutral" words for the temperaments, though.

Also, Jeff Lebowski is totally the SP Jesus. (Screw John Turturro - he's a pederast, yanno? )