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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i think my actions are more like SPs' but my motivations are more akin to an NF or NT's.
    Well I don't give a fuck about being a "messiah" or a "wizard" although Keirsey attributes that to NFs, I think virtuoso makes more sense for me in terms of my writing.

    I'm also a little more competitive like an SP, noticed that I'm more competitive than MANY NFs on this forum even when it comes to debating and things.

    I've also gained major self-esteem in my life by bold acts, like I love it when people say "I could never move 3,000 miles away from my family in a city knowing no one or hardly anyone and just kind of ...see what happens." I also used to take risks as a child/teenager, but I would say they were more audacious socially rather than necessarily physically, though I did take occasional physical risks on my bike or something, it was more along the lines of being brave enough to say...become a stripper when I was 18 years old.

    I can't stand being afraid to live my life. That's why it's so ironic that I have an anxiety disorder (which I think may be post-traumatic stress disorder, actually) because I'm always taking these big risks...my panic attacks didn't even start until I'd flipped several cars over or totalled them, ran away multiple times, etc....I was well into my early twenties. It was so fucking weird that I was this crazy daring person who was suddenly terrified of the STUPIDEST SHIT.

    Classic counterphobic type 6, lol.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    But yeah, there are aspects of Artisan that I do relate to. One thing that aggravated me about Keirsey's stuff is that Artisan and Idealist are presented as like polar opposites but I identify with both of them quite a bit.
    They're considered opposites due to the concrete/abstract and pragmatic/cooperative axes; however, this becomes null when we add the structure/motive axis, as shown here.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well I don't give a fuck about being a "messiah"
    Now I'm wondering if the real messiah wold give a fuck about being a messiah. I don't know. I'd imagine not though. I mean if you are the messiah, why would you care? To you, you probably just are. I mean, kind of like how in Italy, Italian food is just food.

    I am kind of in one of those moods...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    They're considered opposites due to the concrete/abstract and pragmatic/cooperative axes; however, this becomes null when we add the structure/motive axis, as shown here.
    Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

    As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

    As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.
    You're so awesome. lol.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    Now I'm wondering if the real messiah wold give a fuck about being a messiah. I don't know. I'd imagine not though. I mean if you are the messiah, why would you care? To you, you probably just are. I mean, kind of like how in Italy, Italian food is just food.

    I am kind of in one of those moods...
    Oh missed this. This is where that whole authenticity and self-actualization part of being an NF comes in, though. Rather than being a "messiah" I just want to leave my mark on the world with Who I Am.

    I've also had the realization that Small Acts of Kindness are really the best way to Change People's Lives. But then again that almost seems like a Sensor thing.

    Having A Grand Plan didn't suit me at all, and I have no desire to Rebuild The System, I just want to avoid it, except where I really feel it's having a serious impact on people's ability to survive (mostly to do with things like economy and health care, things that many people care about regardless of personality type...I met a woman I swear is either hardcore ESTP or ESTJ - when it comes to work she basically bosses people around, pulls no punches, and can't stand to just sit and wait and gets annoyed with those who do...thank god I don't work with her lol - who otherwise sounded almost like me with her rant the other night about The State of Things).

    But yeah I Champion Causes I think, which is why ENFP suits me best. That and honestly under stress or excitement I can't keep my fucking mouth shut. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

  7. #27
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    I get where you are coming from. I feel like Idealist comes off like I should be the next Ghandi or something. Ummm... no.

    I don't want to go on some epic ideological crusade or something like that.

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    what? who are you guys kidding? i want to be the messiah and shit. go on some epic ideological journey and fight to protect humanity and the universe. i always had those "you are the Chosen One" matrixy daydreams, where i am the special leader savior healer whateverer and get to save the planet and be really significant and whatnot.

    you know, like



    well, at least that means i have less competition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I'm also a little more competitive like an SP, noticed that I'm more competitive than MANY NFs on this forum even when it comes to debating and things.

    I've also gained major self-esteem in my life by bold acts, like I love it when people say "I could never move 3,000 miles away from my family in a city knowing no one or hardly anyone and just kind of ...see what happens." I also used to take risks as a child/teenager, but I would say they were more audacious socially rather than necessarily physically, though I did take occasional physical risks on my bike or something, it was more along the lines of being brave enough to say...become a stripper when I was 18 years old.

    I can't stand being afraid to live my life. That's why it's so ironic that I have an anxiety disorder (which I think may be post-traumatic stress disorder, actually) because I'm always taking these big risks...my panic attacks didn't even start until I'd flipped several cars over or totalled them, ran away multiple times, etc....I was well into my early twenties. It was so fucking weird that I was this crazy daring person who was suddenly terrified of the STUPIDEST SHIT.
    yes indeedy, you are more dynamic than the average NF, i think. you definitely have way more SP than me. more dynamite and pizazz and kickass whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    They're considered opposites due to the concrete/abstract and pragmatic/cooperative axes; however, this becomes null when we add the structure/motive axis, as shown here.
    ah, interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    Yeah, that makes sense, but when I hear motives at Keirsey seminars it is just like 'Idealists are motivated by the personal relationship above all else,' 'Rationals are motivated by following logic' that kind of thing. It isn't like what is on the page you linked to. I don't remember Keirsey spelling it out in those terms in PUM II either, but it has been a year since I read it.

    As an aside, I hate that 4temperaments page. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at an advertisement or if the actual content is on that page, and the page layout is like something I did in front page in 1998. I really hate that page.


    it's the damn trademarks that get me. i read it in my head like this: "theorist TEE EM!"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    what? who are you guys kidding? i want to be the messiah and shit. go on some epic ideological journey and fight to protect humanity and the universe. i always had those "you are the Chosen One" matrixy daydreams, where i am the special leader savior healer whateverer and get to save the planet and be really significant and whatnot.
    I do have thoughts like I am destined for something big (that sounds really dumb) but not that I necessarily want that thing.

    Does being the messiah come with some cool sandals?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I took the color/animal quiz...and I relate more to the Green than the Blue, but the scores are close enough. I am definitely more NT than SP. That's probably common for INFPs whereas ENFPs can display very Se-like actions and behavior due to their dominant Ne, the need to experience and have fun and be crazy. ENFPs are the wild children of the NFs, no doubt about it.

    I have never thought the world could be saved, but I definitely want to "contribute my efforts" so I am in between the two standpoints above, between doing the small things to make a difference and being the grand messiah. To me, changing the world is a group effort.

    Although I always daydream of being singularly praised for being awesome and being one of the few who pioneers programs to ... change the world ... heehee. But that's not the same as having a messiah complex...hmmm...

    Kiersey is ... it ... makes some good points. I have read better descriptions. Will have to read it again to make specific comments.

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