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  1. #61
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I know this is humorous, but relating this idea to William's above, I think this is a conflict some INFPs may experience (especially e4s): Does being "successful" mean being a successful artist (not even literally an artist) or being happy?

    Is it better to live poetically, but be miserable, than to be happy, but not live very poetically? Of course, a person can do both, but it's harder to find examples of these INFPs, because IRL we don't come across each other that much. Looking at famous people doesn't help; they seem to usually be the former kind.
    lol.. it's definitely humorous. i'm just a human, like marm was saying. not Opera Man, not some living embodiment of 19th Century Romantic Poetry, not a bunny rabbit, etc.. My shit stinks, like anyone else's.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yes, the business world does not seem made for INFPs. Even if we can succeed in it (and I think that's very possible), we're often not happy in it.

    This reminds me of some conversations I had w/my mom. When I was younger I always wanted to be some kind of visual artist, but I was always looking to see how I could translate that into a paying job (graphic design? architecture?). I'd note that art is not valued because it doesn't contribute to any need. Well, my ISFJ mom would say that it contributes something very important, very much needed in the world (enriching the human experience, highlighting truth, etc), but I meant the bottom line, pragmatic needs that generate income. People value many INFP associated strengths, but they don't assign monetary value to it. Frankly, I don't think you can. I think in some way, people do recognize that it corrupts the value to view it in monetary terms. I mean, they just see you as a sell-out if they have to pay you for something that should be "above" a service transaction.
    That's peculiar... Why is the INFP, of all types, the single one that doesn't seem to "fit" the world? ISFPs and INTPs do, then why not people who share these types' dominant and auxilliary functions, respectively?

  3. #63
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    That's peculiar... Why is the INFP, of all types, the single one that doesn't seem to "fit" the world? ISFPs and INTPs do, then why not people who share these types' dominant and auxilliary functions, respectively?
    I think ISFPs are equally devalued, but tend to be somewhat less interested in typology and arguing about abstract models (so are under-represented here relative to INFPs). ISFPs are highest at reported stress over finances, among lowest in college retention and have the lowest average income of any type (see MBTI Manual, p94). While I envy the SFP ability to enjoy the present, I feel like they get the short end of the stick in the business world.

    As far as economic valuing of judging, I'd guess the scale for economic value in business goes first to Te then Fe & Ti (both valued, but in different areas) and then last to Fi. FJs are not uncommon in middle management, but upper management tends to be heavily TJ. Ti is useful both for practical trouble-shooting and for honing theoretical models or development possibilities.

    Fi doesn't seem particularly useful in business (excluding particular areas like mental health and certain kinds of art and entertainment), but can sometimes server as a useful counter-balance. FPs can do quite well in the business world, but I think they have to find their own niches.

  4. #64
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    That's peculiar... Why is the INFP, of all types, the single one that doesn't seem to "fit" the world? ISFPs and INTPs do, then why not people who share these types' dominant and auxilliary functions, respectively?
    Well, I don't think they are the single type that does not fit. I thought we were just discussing when an INFP feels this way (out of place in the world or defective), why they would feel that way.

    I agree with Seymour that ISFPs often have similar obstacles, as far as being devalued goes. I think ExFPs have the E advantage.

    INTP strengths are usually more lauded in intellectual circles (as Ti thoughts are easier to communicate in many ways), but I see many facing that same challenge of being devalued. They probably just don't focus on value so much, so it's not a huge issue in their minds. I notice they shrug it off better, just as I'd expect the issue of value to hit an F type harder.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #65
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Maybe I'm being idealistic (what are the odds of that?), but I'd like to see it as not so much compromising oneself, but expanding what your ideals mean in reality. I think a stable, productive INFP sees many ways to reach a core ideal, and so they are less restricted, making so-called "compromises" a non-threat to their identity. Instead, these "compromises" just become different avenues than you previously thought you could take to reach your ideals. The ideals are less narrow, less rigid, more adaptable, which makes them easier to fulfill in reality.
    Well, in the current political environment the word "compromise" has somehow been hijacked to become a negative word. I was thinking more of a win-win type of compromise. It IS possible to do what you enjoy while also doing enough mundane stuff to put the bread on the table so to speak. It's just that in the modern world the making a living part has to be a higher priority.

    Johnny Depp was mentioned upthread but he has 'earned' his position of being able to pick and choose the quirky roles he plays. Could a young and unknown actor make the same maverick choices? For every one who makes it, I would guess many do not.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  6. #66
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't care to compare myself to Depp. As cool as he is, and despite the possibility of him being an INFP, he's partly where's he at for something entirely irrelevant to my experience. His looks. Something totally out of the power of both of us. He's done much to transcend that, but I'm fairly sure his life is so much different than mine that it isn't worth thinking about his path to success.

  7. #67
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I think (and I'll use myself as an example) as an INFP who's taken a fairly mundane path as a lab tech, one of the biggest issue I have is reconciling what I think is right and proper work place conduct with what actually happens in the work place. I have a really polarising effect, and I am fairly uncomprimising in that aspect. It caused me alot of pain and unhappiness though, although it goes without saying I'm almost always the union representative eventually, but there are times when I wish I could keep my head down, and let some else cop the flak for once.
    Although one place I left, said they missed how much I made every one feel vauled, and how much I laughed (I have a pretty distinctive and infectious laugh apparently). They didn't know how much I added until I was gone. It was very sweet they told me.
    At the time I left though, I had gotten exhausted and burnout constantly trying to bring managment's attention to the excessive work load of every one on evening shift, and the constant pressure put on a few individual's shoulders, because they were the only one's truly capable of handling night shift. (I noticed after I left, they had to hire two people in my place.) I wasn't feeling very valued at the time.
    I do think people out there don't always know what makes us feel warm and fuzzy. Grandiose gestures don't work for me, they just make me feel obligated, but some thing like grabbing me a coffee on the way to work knowing I'll be dying for one cause I've already been at work for two hours, let's me know you've really thought of me. Or getting lunch for me, because you all my perferences will be gone by the time I finish up the lunch time round of work. It's really small gestures like that, that let me I'm appreciated.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #68
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Its only great being any type, especially INFP if

    A) You have an education with an appropriate income.
    B) You have a partner with whom you are able to have a pleasurable experience with and feel loved for being you as you love for being you.
    C) With a family that loves you for you as you love you for you.

    If your like me, INFP silly and don't finish University or Technical College for 5 years and have a uni debt of some 13 years gaining interest. And working at a Supermarket as night fill while paying the full amount you earn in rent while ending up owing welfare money by the end of it. And turn out to be a man child who returned to live with his parents once more with a 7 thousand debt. And your still as hypothyroid and asperger as a monkey then yes being an INFP male is heartbreaking stuff! Especially for one who seems to earn less money as the years wear on and knows 100% what attraction means and goes through life 100% lonely. And who's only had 2 coffee meeting by age, yeah in my thirties. I might as well find a stone, a chain and throw myself into water now, lol. Lets not forget talking with spirits while meditating.

    I'm over life once more. Why try to fail.

    Personally its great being an INFP without health issues.

  9. #69
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Its only great being any type, especially INFP if

    A) You have an education with an appropriate income.
    B) You have a partner with whom you are able to have a pleasurable experience with and feel loved for being you as you love for being you.
    C) With a family that loves you for you as you love you for you.

    If your like me, INFP silly and don't finish University or Technical College for 5 years and have a uni debt of some 13 years gaining interest. And working at a Supermarket as night fill while paying the full amount you earn in rent while ending up owing welfare money by the end of it. And turn out to be a man child who returned to live with his parents once more with a 7 thousand debt. And your still as hypothyroid and asperger as a monkey then yes being an INFP male is heartbreaking stuff! Especially for one who seems to earn less money as the years wear on and knows 100% what attraction means and goes through life 100% lonely. And who's only had 2 coffee meeting by age, yeah in my thirties. I might as well find a stone, a chain and throw myself into water now, lol. Lets not forget talking with spirits while meditating.

    I'm over life once more. Why try to fail.

    Personally its great being an INFP without health issues.
    I don't mean to sound trite, but life tends to have up swings and down swings. If you hang on tight, you'll be on the up swing soon enough. Trust me, this time last year I was facing bankruptcy, had not a penny to my name and no possessions. This year I'm debt free, have a car, and hopefully the prospect of buying a house. I don't talk to my family, and I don't have a partner, but I'm resilient, really resilent. I don't give a shit if every one in this one horse town thinks I'm a loser, because I'm not married and have a million kids. What I have I got on my own, and I'm fugly and cold, and in my 30's...and an INFP. If I'm not a millionare by the time I'm 45 I'll be spitting chips.
    Got to find that fire in your belly and tell the whole world to fuck off! You will not be defined by societal expectations. You'll find your own way. (Do you think I'd make a good motivational speaker?)
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #70
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I don't mean to sound trite, but life tends to have up swings and down swings. If you hang on tight, you'll be on the up swing soon enough. Trust me, this time last year I was facing bankruptcy, had not a penny to my name and no possessions. This year I'm debt free, have a car, and hopefully the prospect of buying a house. I don't talk to my family, and I don't have a partner, but I'm resilient, really resilent. I don't give a shit if every one in this one horse town thinks I'm a loser, because I'm not married and have a million kids. What I have I got on my own, and I'm fugly and cold, and in my 30's...and an INFP. If I'm not a millionare by the time I'm 45 I'll be spitting chips.
    Got to find that fire in your belly and tell the whole world to fuck off! You will not be defined by societal expectations. You'll find your own way. (Do you think I'd make a good motivational speaker?)
    Yeah that helped, that is inspired and motivational talk, thank you. Resilience is a positive character trait, to continue till the last drop and defy the odds.

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