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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Ah my bad.. Here's a fault of mine: I sometimes read too hastily

  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i don't think its that far fetched of a theory, but if you think it is then would you really agree that ENFPs really do love pointing out how awesome they are to everyone?
    why is it necessarily arrogance or insecurity to want to share who you are?

    not to jump to defensive, but i'm not sure why you're wording it the way you are... it sounds very attention whoring. but those of us who have posted have explained so many ways it could be otherwise... i mean, marm has pointed out that we share personal experience to connect. it's not "pointing out" - that's a one-sided interaction. a direction. what she described is initiation of a two (or more) sided exchange. that's not attention whoring. suchirony pointed out that we tend to be optimists. this is an excellent point. i get excited about almost every subject. why not myself also? that's not attention whoring either... i dunno, it just seems like you're saying you don't want to see it like that, but you've sort of already made up your mind.

    i would be curious to see some examples. certainly i can think of some off the top of my head that are really quite blatant, but as far as i know they're also naive - a la "i just voiced this because i really think it and want to talk about it".

    i have a feeling that more insecure people do tend to gravitate towards internet forums than secure people. im definately NOT saying that all enfps are like this, but its the trend ive noticed. i also have a theory that insecure people are more likely to score NF on the tests just because when a person is insecure they are much more sensitive
    well, what do you mean by insecure? i think there are a lot of different "realms" of insecurity. i like my blog thread of blabbing about myself, but i'm not sure why any of my major personal insecurities would lead me to post a lot of self-promontory threads, nor how that ties into being an NF. i would suspect insecurity to correlate with I and F, but i'm surprised by your NF correlation. i think we are very responsive to others and read others well, but i'm not sure that's always insecurity as much as it is a form of awareness and perception. like suddenly gaining an extra sense and avoiding unpleasant things in that sense... others just see you avoiding, so they think you're afraid... but if they could smell the yucky ooze you smell they'd be avoiding that area too. not that NFs are 6th sensed or anything, Sensors certainly have a more environmentally-attuned awareness than we do, and NTs react to minuscule changes in systems.

    the enneagram 3 type sort of revolves around what you're talking about with the insecurity hypothesis - someone pointing out all their qualities because they don't feel like their self alone is "good enough" - though i think you'll find that there aren't all that many enneagram 3 ENFPs.

    i think your point about it being an internet thing is important. one of the amazing things about the internet to me is that there are TONS OF PEOPLE who WANT TO TALK about the same things i want to talk about!! i've been looking for that since i was like 5. so i think it's really awesome to have somewhere where i can say, "i think blue eyes are really fucking great", and to have 100 other people chime in on their opinions. i would never say that IRL because it's just plain impolite - not because i'm insecure as much as i'm not stupid, lol. but here... eh. what are the consequences? minimal. i still don't do that because i am who i am, but if i were less inhibited, i could see making that kind of thread.

    there's also the fact that i can share a whole lot of things online without consequence, moreso than IRL. again, not insecurity - at least, i wouldn't say so - but better judgment. i'm an SLoA[I], for instance. not only do people here usually know what that means, but they want to TALK about it too.

    oh, and i don't know about other ENFPs, but i have a big penchant for classification systems. i love them. i want to categorize and sort and assign values to people and types and etc etc etc. i want to have 16 symmetrical names for the types and i want to sort me as ENFP IEE this that etc while you're ESFP SEE something else something else, and then i want to study the differences. i think it's fascinating. so that could be another reason why ENFPs tend to talk like this - we're establishing our place in the classification system.



    ps hey guys let's talk about how great ENFs are

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISFPeaceOut View Post
    what i'm saying is that insecure people gravitate to internet forums as a place to vent, be themselves, or not have to be judged a lot of the time AND that its easier to score NF when you're depressed/insecure because you are in a more sensitive and deep thinking state at that time. thus, some of the people who point out all their good qualities in the self-promoting way that I menttioned, may not even be ENFPs in actuality, but just insecure people who score that way and make posts like that to compensate.

    i don't think its that far fetched of a theory, but if you think it is then would you really agree that ENFPs really do love pointing out how awesome they are to everyone? because im trying not to paint ENFPs in that light. I'm trying to find a more fair explanation without automatically assuming its just pure arrogance. hopefully that makes more sense.
    No, I don't think ENFPs like pointing out how awesome they are to everyone, though in some cases you're going to encounter people who are narcissists or who are insecure, but those people could be ENTJ or ESFJ or INTJ or ENFP or whatever. Maybe the way ENFPs express themselves looks self-promoting to you, because of typical ENFP presentation, which is probably not meant to be appreciated or understood by every single human being on the face of the earth.

    I'm not sure what NF has to do with depressed/insecure but I have heard that people might specifically mistype as INFP during states of depression because they are sensitive, avoiding people, and not especially motivated to "do." However, that's not what an INFP is.

    I mean, your user name is ISFPeaceOut. I presume this means you see yourself as peaceful. I'm guessing some ENFPs really believe they're super non-judgmental (which of course is not true of anyone in reality, every body judges things at least a little bit) ...but like, ENFPs do tend to kind of let things go and, yes, they *can* be a lot less rigid than other types.

    If you're encountering an especially young or self-congratulatory ENFP it's probably going to be worse. I mean, your mileage may vary. It's just like how some ENTJs think they're always right, and some ENTPs are like "I'm fucking with you, deal with it, if you get upset that's your problem," and some INTJs are all like thinking they're the smartest and most superior people on the face of the earth. That gets on my nerves sometimes because sometimes NTs think they're good at everything just because they're intelligent or "book smart" and it's like ummm...no you're not. You're just a person.

    Which is why I bring up how some NFs, especially while young, may incorrectly view themselves as morally superior in the way that NTs can see themselves as intellectually superior, and SPs can think they're cooler than everybody else, and SJs can get self-righteous about how wonderfully normal and accomplished they are.

    People are annoying. Welcome to the human race.

  4. #14
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    It's because they're not ENFPs but they're infatuated with the idea of being ENFP (and all of their misguided ideas about the good qualities of that type), so they go around spouting off in an embarrassing attempt to prove to others that they're ENFP. Or, in the case of some members in particular, they're not ENFP and they're 12 years-old.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    It's because they're not ENFPs but they're infatuated with the idea of being ENFP (and all of their misguided ideas about the good qualities of that type), so they go around spouting off in an embarrassing attempt to prove to others that they're ENFP. Or, in the case of some members in particular, they're not ENFP and they're 12 years-old.
    This happens on INTJ forum, too, with non-INTJs who want superiority through claiming INTJ as a type. And how many fake INFJs are running around the Intertardz?

    I think there is potential, though, that some of these people really are the type they claim they are, but are simply using it as an illusion to stroke their ego by focusing on all the strengths of their type and none of the weaknesses. I don't think it's always a case of someone pretending to be a type they aren't.

  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think there is potential, though, that some of these people really are the type they claim they are, but are simply using it as an illusion to stroke their ego by focusing on all the strengths of their type and none of the weaknesses. I don't think it's always a case of someone pretending to be a type they aren't.
    I allow for the possibility, certainly.
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  7. #17
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I haven't noticed ENFPs doing this any more than any other type here.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #18
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'd like to add that perhaps it happens also partly coz ENFP positive traits tend to be not valued economically as much as some other types out there. At least, that was what it feels like to me. It sometimes feels as if they get taken for granted, kinda like just being frosting. I personally was happy to discover my type coz it finally gave me a clue as to understand which strengths I had. I had no clue, before, as in my environment, my specific set of skills is just shrugged at. It made me feel useless. When you then discover those strengths and a place where you are in fact free to discuss them ( to, amongst others, develop them further), combined with the typical ENFP bluntness and enthusiasm....

    Don't get me wrong, I also instantly recognized the flaws and felt relieved not to be the only one stuck with those
    Those also get discussed, but perhaps with less exuberance, and get their own topics, in order to learn how to properly deal with them.

    It was nice to see them named, to have something to point you in the right direction, identify them and actively work at it
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  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i think one reason for this is that they are insecure(or are naturally prone to insecurity) inside by default(insecure about whether they are flawed on something or not). so its the same reason why they need alot of affirmation from others for them to feel good about themselves and forget/fight the insecurities coming from inside. if they would express more negative things about themselves(their insecurities), those things would start to feel more real to them, since they would lose the viewpoint of balancing themselves with positive things, that is if they wouldnt get enough quality affirmation about them.

    like whats going on in their heads is what defines them(to them) and if they focus too much on negative things, they feel like crap, so they need to focus on positive things as much as they can to balance the tendency to feel insecure about themselves. this also leads to the need for positive affirmation from others.

    i think its an aux Fi thing. aux function is prone to insecurity(but not that much that it cant be corrected), its same with my Ne. i cant trust my Ne the same way as Ne doms do, im always doubting it and need to rationalize the patterns i see with Ne(check that they are consistent when i look at them with rational thinking), by using my Ti.

    and yes, ENFPs do recognize some of their faults and accept them, but that just makes them need more positive things. from self expression or positive affirmation from others. also i think speaking about positive things might work as a way for getting positive affirmation for them from others. they speak about positive things and other agree = yay. but if they speak about negative things and others agree = nay.

    or maybe im not able to think this through completely and get to false conclusions because i just woke up. anyone agree with this?

    ps. i dont see this to be some awful thing that you do, unless its taken to the extreme..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #20
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    the Intertardz


    People are annoying. Welcome to the human race.
    hah. i like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP
    i think one reason for this is that they are insecure(or are naturally prone to insecurity) inside by default (insecure about whether they are flawed on something or not). so its the same reason why they need alot of affirmation from others for them to feel good about themselves and forget/fight the insecurities coming from inside. if they would express more negative things about themselves(their insecurities), those things would start to feel more real to them, since they would lose the viewpoint of balancing themselves with positive things, that is if they wouldnt get enough quality affirmation about them.

    like whats going on in their heads is what defines them(to them) and if they focus too much on negative things, they feel like crap, so they need to focus on positive things as much as they can to balance the tendency to feel insecure about themselves. this also leads to the need for positive affirmation from others.

    i think its an aux Fi thing. aux function is prone to insecurity(but not that much that it cant be corrected), its same with my Ne. i cant trust my Ne the same way as Ne doms do, im always doubting it and need to rationalize the patterns i see with Ne(check that they are consistent when i look at them with rational thinking), by using my Ti.

    and yes, ENFPs do recognize some of their faults and accept them, but that just makes them need more positive things. from self expression or positive affirmation from others. [...]

    or maybe im not able to think this through completely and get to false conclusions because i just woke up. anyone agree with this?
    this is probably true. one thing that's a pain in the ass about being an ExxP is that we're very environmentally susceptible. i know some people who can hear a bunch of crap going on in their environment and hardly blink. me, on the other hand, i get all out of sorts. so putting positivity into the environment is definitely a good thing in my mind.

    i think you're mostly right about Fi, also. personally, i'm not as secure or grounded in it as IFPs are, and so when i feel disconnected from it, sometimes my self-worth is negatively affected. it also clashes with Te, sometimes, and that's a hard struggle. Fi has been derided as a useless, whiny emo function, and like vala pointed out, sometimes ENFP strengths aren't always well-appreciated IRL. certainly they're not explicitly praised, like ENTJ's ability to get things done, ESFJ's warmth and practicality, or ISTP's badassery. we're more nebulous, i think. but, being EFs, we want to connect with others, so it's not like we can just not care. also, being an extravert, when i'm alone for too long, nasty thoughts begin circulating in me. i don't really know why, but i need others to help open me up, or i start ruminative negative thinking. i think it's got something to do with being insanely bored, wanting something to do, and realizing that i have x-and-so problem to solve - except it's usually one of my own personal problems, and then i spend all my time thinking about it, and then i feel down on myself. so i could sort of see making one of these threads after feeling like that.

    i figure there are some ENFP e7s for who this is less true, but i do also think that ENFPs spend a lot more time thinking about negatives and their own weaknesses than most people would guess. we tend to project happiness and light outside but inside we're also rather serious and heavy...

    i also theoretically believe that all things have equal opposites. for every negative ENFP quality, there's a positive; for every positive, a shadow side. what we choose to capitalize on is up to us, but there's no denying the duality. so even in your example...

    Quote Originally Posted by dumb ENFP
    ENFPs are so accepting of other people. Personally, I never judge others and I'm always very supportive and loving towards everyone. I'm also a very encouraging person.
    response to ENFP: great, so you're accepting of others. you're probably also blind to their flaws and how they could be corrected if they weren't just readily overlooked. you never judge others? i would not trust you in any sort of leadership position. you're always very supportive and loving towards everyone, that's good, but i wonder if your motives are completely altruistic. you're encouraging - well that can be really annoying sometimes. and it's not like you're actually being productive, you're just trying to get others to be productive.

    do you see what i mean? like... maybe it seems like idiotic unweighted positives... but i don't see why that's necessarily the case. saying that there is blue in a rainbow doesn't negate the possibility of there being orange in it, also. saying that ENFPs are supportive and loving doesn't negate that they could also be reactive and non-committal. it actually often points you towards negatives, if you're paying close attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vala Faye
    I'd like to add that perhaps it happens also partly coz ENFP positive traits tend to be not valued economically as much as some other types out there. At least, that was what it feels like to me. It sometimes feels as if they get taken for granted, kinda like just being frosting. I personally was happy to discover my type coz it finally gave me a clue as to understand which strengths I had. I had no clue, before, as in my environment, my specific set of skills is just shrugged at. It made me feel useless. When you then discover those strengths and a place where you are in fact free to discuss them ( to, amongst others, develop them further), combined with the typical ENFP bluntness and enthusiasm....

    Don't get me wrong, I also instantly recognized the flaws and felt relieved not to be the only one stuck with those
    Those also get discussed, but perhaps with less exuberance, and get their own topics, in order to learn how to properly deal with them.

    It was nice to see them named, to have something to point you in the right direction, identify them and actively work at it
    yes yes yes yes yes yes

    in my experience, i get a lot of crap for being spacey or overly emotional at times, and then people are just mystified when i quickly get to the bottom of their personal problem, guide them from depressive bawling to a state of empowerment, get their entire entertainment system working again, streamline workplace methods for efficiency, effectively translate for them, or loophole their way out of a huge mess. somehow they don't put two and two together, and see that i'm not zoning out, i'm thinking, and i'm not just being overly emotional, i'm pushing my own introspection and discovering intrapersonal aspects that will be useful for both internal and external application in the future. of course i'm not all awesome and great, i have a lot of really stupid weaknesses, but sometimes i feel like i'm simultaneously taken as a fluffball and as a highly competent problem solver. while most of the time i revel in that, because it's fun to be lighthearted and happy and then knock the socks off someone, it's also sort of a pain in the ass to often not be taken seriously for my strengths until people see the end results of them. so yeah... it's really nice to discuss those strengths with others who also understand and appreciate them as something steady and static despite seeming incompatibilities, and who are willing to see me, up front, with the huge contradictory complexities that my being includes.

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