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  1. #211
    Glycerine
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    This actually warrants its own discussion in the philosophy subforum, I think.

  2. #212

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    I'm wiser than all you young punks.

  3. #213
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    On a side note, my near 60 year old dad told me the other day that "You are sheltered because you have yet to meet the many incredibly idiotic people of the world....they make morons look like geniuses."
    This makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. Your dad is so right (not necessarily about you being sheltered).
    IMHO, age and wisdom do not go together necessarily. Some people never attain wisdom at all. A rather frightening number actually. I'm not saying I'm overly blessed in the wisdom stakes...just that I do actually learn from my mistakes. A surprising number of folks do not.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  4. #214
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    This makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. Your dad is so right (not necessarily about you being sheltered).
    IMHO, age and wisdom do not go together necessarily. Some people never attain wisdom at all. A rather frightening number actually. I'm not saying I'm overly blessed in the wisdom stakes...just that I do actually learn from my mistakes. A surprising number of folks do not.
    Agreed. Age can be a contributing factor to wisdom but age alone means nothing. Key phrase: can be.

  5. #215
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    The prefrontal cortex isn't developed. That's a fact.
    So what? What does this mean? Does it mean that you can't be wise until you're absolutely fully developed? Can no 23 year-old ever be wiser than any person with a fully developed prefrontal cortex, just because they're two years shy of full development? If not (which I think is likely the case), what's the point of even bringing it up? We would have to be slightly more rigorous if we were going to precisely specify a real wisdom-cutoff age; simply saying "the brain isn't fully developed! The brain isn't fully developed!" unfortunately does not suffice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    Age = you have more experience because you've lived for a longer amount of time. Age = you have more information to make the right decisions. Age =/= you are right. Age is one of the things that gives you a greater opportunity to be right, yes?
    No. Experience is one of the things that gives you a greater opportunity to be wise, to a degree, but age and experience are themselves only loosely related (as others have mentioned...a 24 year-old can possibly have more wisdom-relevant experience than some 50 year-olds.) And the degree to which experience is relevant to wisdom (and how much experience is wisdom-relevant) is different for different individuals, so if we had two people, person A (28 years-old) and person B (54 years-old), each with normal amounts of experience for their respective ages, I do not think that it would be safe to say that person B is any more likely to be wise than person A. And that's because there are other equally (or more) relevant factors that contribute to one's level of wisdom (not to mention that they are probably different for different individuals as well.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    You guys, we actually agree with each other, but we're arguing different points. When the points are all considered, they make a complete picture.
    No, I think you're confusing the age/wisdom relationship along one's individual lifespan with the same relationship spread over a group of people. With the former, it's possible to say that most single individuals, regardless of their wisdom compared to other individuals, are likely to gain wisdom as they age (meaning there is a positive relationship between age and wisdom.) With the latter, however, that relationship falls apart. We can't say that any individual of greater age is more likely, simply by virtue of their age, to be comparatively more wise than another individual of lesser age. Just because Cletus is probably going to be more wise at 65 than he was at 30, that doesn't mean he's probably going to be more wise at 65 than any (or even most) other 30 year-olds.
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  6. #216
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    ^
    1st paragraph: Looks like you didn't read my last two paragraphs before typing this.

    2nd and 3rd paragraphs: I don't disagree with you. But age is still a factor. Looks like you admit that yourself.

    I was never on the side of thinking age is the only factor of wisdom. People just kind of assumed I was and the debate started.

  7. #217
    Glycerine
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    It was the "The #1 way to not be taken seriously on online forums. " comment because someone said they were a junior in high school that probably led to that assumption.

  8. #218
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    ^1st paragraph: Looks like you didn't read my last two paragraphs before typing this.
    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    2nd and 3rd paragraphs: I don't disagree with you. But age is still a factor. Looks like you admit that yourself.
    No, I don't think it is a factor AT ALL if we're talking about comparative levels of wisdom across a population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    I was never on the side of thinking age is the only factor of wisdom. People just kind of assumed I was and the debate started.
    Like Pitseleh said, it's probably because you (and others) were using NegativeZero's age as a way to discredit what he was saying.
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  9. #219
    Senior Member NegativeZero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Except that we were all 17 once, too, and thought we had just as good a grasp on the way things worked as anyone else did.

    Then ages 22-25 happened.

    The problem with that age is that your brain isn't developed enough yet to comprehend how much your own arrogance blinds you. And yes, everyone is arrogant in some way at age 17.
    I think you're confusing the terms 'brain' and 'mind.' I don't actually know if non-physical thoughts are reducible to physical brain states (the materialist would most certainly hope so), but I am also not sure if that's the most problematic assertion in your post. Before someone strawmans me, I am NOT denying the connection between the brain and the mind. This topic is better suited to the philosophy forum, so if anyone is interested in idealism v. dualism v. physicalism debates, I'd be more than happy to contribute to a thread.

    I find it odd that your sentiment is, "arrogance is blinding, and everyone is definitely somehow arrogant at 17." Perhaps I'm taking you too seriously, but this is not a valid argument at all, you know.

    However, allow me to digress. I am sure when 22-25 happen to me, I will definitely think of my 17 year old self as an idiot. I already think of my three to six months ago self as an idiot, so years should make a huge difference. An interesting note is I've always found people in their early 20s to be unconscionably pretentious and arrogant, whereas I've always perceived teenagers to fundamentally lack wisdom and foresight; and they thereby seem foolish/immature/reckless rather than arrogant.
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    What?
    You were like, "So you're saying teens can never, ever be wise?!?!?!?" which I wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey
    No, I don't think it is a factor AT ALL if we're talking about comparative levels of wisdom across a population.
    WTF? It's not a factor? Why are you interested in things like MBTI then? Is MBTI not a factor of knowing how someone will act?

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