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  1. #11
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    From what I have observed, there is much more Fe bashing on this forum than the other way around. By a distance.

    Anyway, Fi is a great and beautiful (and necessary) thing when used in a healthy way but can get very nasty when it is unhealthy. Sort of Fi against the rest of the world, messianic delusions and all that. Taking pride in not considering others.
    But every function can get nasty, I guess.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #12
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    taking pride in not considering others...?? it really is misunderstood isn't it? i guess fe is to us much of the time also tho...that sucks.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #13
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    HAHAH.. I know where your coming from.. and ya, I've seen people hate on Fi, but I still think Fe gets the brunt of it.

    Infact, all the functions can get hated on..
    Ne's get hated on for being too out there
    Ni's get hated on for being too narrow
    Fe's get hated on for social expectations
    Fi's get hated on for internal values that conflict with the hater
    Te gets hated on for being Nazi's
    Ti gets hated on for an inability to make the framework external
    Se gets hated on for being gluttonous and barbaric
    Si gets hated on for being subjective

    Perhaps compromise is needed. Perhaps we can all get along in one big pool of seething hatred.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  4. #14
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Fe gets the hate more than Fi.

    The only non hated on functions around here are Ni, Ne & Ti. All others are seen as problematic, especially by others who don't make immediate use of them.
    I think Ti's not discussed as much because it's not as understood.

  5. #15
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    taking pride in not considering others...?? it really is misunderstood isn't it? i guess fe is to us much of the time also tho...that sucks.
    Hah, I was exaggerating of course, but only slightly.
    What I meant is going against a group for the heck of it, just to feel like a martyr for your values (even when they were never threatened!) and a rebel of sorts. Suspecting peer pressure and sheeplike group think where there is none and starting crusades over nothing.

    And remember that I was explicitely referring to unhealthy Fi, not Fi in general.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  6. #16
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vala Faye
    You'll find that all functions get hated on regularly here. It's like a natural part of function life.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Hah, I was exaggerating of course, but only slightly.
    What I meant is going against a group for the heck of it, just to feel like a martyr for your values (even when they were never threatened!) and a rebel of sorts. Suspecting peer pressure and sheeplike group think where there is none and starting crusades over nothing.

    And remember that I was explicitely referring to unhealthy Fi, not Fi in general.
    i'm not dom Fi, so maybe i don't understand this as well or the process is a little different for me, but i think you have the pattern right - however the reasoning is a little different, at least for me personally.

    it would be more like strong (healthy or unhealthy) Fi is very aware of its difference from others and its need to stand its own ground, but unhealthy Fi misinterprets that into inability to ever reconcile the self with other selves. the primary motive for going against the group isn't for the sake of being a rebel because it makes you feel good as much as it is due feeling hurt then protectively walling off of your own identity and internally cutting yourself off from others, creating the illusion that it is "you vs them". then rebelling feels good because it reinforces your self-protection, which actually just serves to perpetuate the misperception that you can heal yourself by walling your self off - even though all you're doing from an external perspective is being a whiner with your head up your ass.

    my point being, i think the origin of it is less in being proud of not considering others (i think that actually goes against the whole point of Fi - at least for an ExFP, Fi is the primary means by which we connect with others... not to mention that being wholly self-absorbed is embarrassing) and more in a painful feeling of irreconcilability. i think that's pretty universally true, actually. harmful behavior is usually the result of someone being hurt inside, and that causing some sort of cognitive error which skews behavior.

    here's my messed-up-Fi process, for your enjoyment:
    1) i'll get internally emo and whiny and try to hide away because that's embarrassing
    2) but i know that what i actually need to heal is to reconcile my ability of my self to reconnect with others, so either i'lll just ask someone to talk to me (if i'm in a particularly healthy state of mind), or if not, i'll try to lure others to pay attention to me (because i feel like they should care enough about me to pay attention that i'm hurt)
    3) if i don't ask anyone and no one does pay attention i will mope alone and just ruminate in my thoughts
    4) either i will get sick of ruminating and want to go get something else done, which is what usually happens, so i give up being a huge whiner and go be productive, OR i'll finally give in and ask someone if they'd mind talking with me for a while while i debrief my feelings to myself, OR i am increasingly an ass until someone notices.

  7. #17
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Hah, I was exaggerating of course, but only slightly.
    What I meant is going against a group for the heck of it, just to feel like a martyr for your values (even when they were never threatened!) and a rebel of sorts. Suspecting peer pressure and sheeplike group think where there is none and starting crusades over nothing.

    And remember that I was explicitely referring to unhealthy Fi, not Fi in general.
    well that shit would annoy me too...going against the group for the heck of it?? wanting to be a martyr?? i don't get...and starting crusades over nothing...?? but...i don't see people doing that...
    i see people thinking that's the motivation because they don't get it..it's placing value on an individuals interests and rights...not just the fi users but everyone's..and when you concern yourself with that it can lead to really good group dynamics i think.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #18
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Fe is only hated on when it's not Dom or Aux, otherwise it seems very well-like to me...

    Fe gets along with people better IME. People outside the Fi user get annoyed because they feel their views don't get considered... and they kind of don't...

  9. #19
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    +1



    i'm not dom Fi, so maybe i don't understand this as well or the process is a little different for me, but i think you have the pattern right - however the reasoning is a little different, at least for me personally.

    it would be more like strong (healthy or unhealthy) Fi is very aware of its difference from others and its need to stand its own ground, but unhealthy Fi misinterprets that into inability to ever reconcile the self with other selves. the primary motive for going against the group isn't for the sake of being a rebel because it makes you feel good as much as it is due feeling hurt then protectively walling off of your own identity and internally cutting yourself off from others, creating the illusion that it is "you vs them". then rebelling feels good because it reinforces your self-protection, which actually just serves to perpetuate the misperception that you can heal yourself by walling your self off - even though all you're doing from an external perspective is being a whiner with your head up your ass.

    my point being, i think the origin of it is less in being proud of not considering others (i think that actually goes against the whole point of Fi - at least for an ExFP, Fi is the primary means by which we connect with others... not to mention that being wholly self-absorbed is embarrassing) and more in a painful feeling of irreconcilability. i think that's pretty universally true, actually. harmful behavior is usually the result of someone being hurt inside, and that causing some sort of cognitive error which skews behavior.

    here's my messed-up-Fi process, for your enjoyment:
    1) i'll get internally emo and whiny and try to hide away because that's embarrassing
    2) but i know that what i actually need to heal is to reconcile my ability of my self to reconnect with others, so either i'lll just ask someone to talk to me (if i'm in a particularly healthy state of mind), or if not, i'll try to lure others to pay attention to me (because i feel like they should care enough about me to pay attention that i'm hurt)
    3) if i don't ask anyone and no one does pay attention i will mope alone and just ruminate in my thoughts
    4) either i will get sick of ruminating and want to go get something else done, which is what usually happens, so i give up being a huge whiner and go be productive, OR i'll finally give in and ask someone if they'd mind talking with me for a while while i debrief my feelings to myself, OR i am increasingly an ass until someone notices
    .
    ha...me too
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #20
    Dali
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    Fe is only hated on when it's not Dom or Aux, otherwise it seems very well-like to me...

    Fe gets along with people better IME. People outside the Fi user get annoyed because they feel their views don't get considered... and they kind of don't...
    I take it you haven't seen people rip into Dom-Fe on here. It can get ugly. Real ugly...

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