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  1. #451
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    If he has the time, I'd be interested in hearing what @Seymour has to say about your original query. I may be overlooking something...

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    He believes that the reports will lead him to make a step-by-step approach to follow, but to a crazy degree. Like, what hubby should do on a daily basis, broken down by the hour. Of course, hubby can never get to any of those tasks because he's so busy writing reports and making step-by-step plans. And the tasks themselves seem way off base (imo) and not very future oriented.

    My INTP is an analyst by nature and by profession. He lives and breathes analysis. So believe me, if I'm telling you this guy is going crazy with these reports, you just have to take my word for it. I agree that it may be a stalling tactic. I just feel the Te is just... off.
    Oh... wow. Okay, that is extreme. Usually an INFP clinging on to Te to that insane degree is a sign of some very fundamental unconscious fear being repressed. Let's see:

    1) He's probably afraid to actually lead, so has decided to make these metrics be the company leader in his stead. It suggests that he's out of tune with Fi when it comes to the business vision of the company (even if he has a very strong and admirable Fi when it comes to other areas).

    2) He's afraid about losing money, but isn't facing the situation properly. He's falling into a common INFP trap of thinking that if he tries to do what he's currently doing HARDER, it will miraculously work. So when long term metrics outlining basic strategies fails to work, he assumes that MORE metrics breaking it down by the hour is the solution. It's hard to break an INFP of that.

    Which leads to...

    I think the problem is that they both analyze the situation and have different opinions on what to focus on. The INFP insists on focusing on the failing model. The INTP would like to focus on a model that has been proven to work in his own experiences, after having already given the INFP's model a fair chance during these past few months.
    Agree. INFPs model is based on Fear, INTP's by Vision. If INFP can see and understand INTP's vision, it's likely INFP will come around. But INFP will resist this because of fear and, because of how INTP communicates, a decent learning curve. Might be worthwhile to reduce learning curve.

    That's my point, these reports are useless. If in fact he's behaving as you think he is, he's just wasting everyone's time by pretending to care what others think. It seems like a lose-lose situation, filled with busy work. I could never continue to work in a situation like that. But my INTP has been blessed with infinite patience and a "fuck it" attitude.

    Anyway, I see now that there's really not going to be any real change, if this is going like you think it is. So, I think that my INTP should just do what he is told rather than do the job he thought he was hired for. It will make it easier for everyone involved, I think.

    Thanks for your help!!! This insight was invaluable!
    An INFP in such deep throes of Te concerns me, so as much as I hate to say it, you may be right. (Not that I hate saying you are right, but rather, that there's a real chance you won't be able to get to the INFP. Although I do kinda hate saying you are right, too. )

    However, before jumping to that conclusion 100%, perhaps start with asking the type questions I mentioned in my first response and see where it goes.

  2. #452
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    You are so helpful. I'm going to talk all this over with the hubby and get back to you. Thank you!

  3. #453
    Junior Member nicothyun's Avatar
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    @Udog: Hahaha thanks, now that you have put it in such a perspective, I will try the next time I meet him.

    @Eckhart : I know right, I swear INFPs creep up and brings out all the fuzzy wuzzy in me. Which is both a bad and good thing. haha

    Haha if you don't mind, I would love to hear about your experiences!
    “Sometimes I’m terrified of my heart; of its constant hunger for whatever it is it wants. The way it stops and starts.”
    ― Edgar Allan Poe

  4. #454
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    This will be a harder question to answer (and possibly unanswerable), but do be honest. INFPs are known for being idealists and having strong convictions on morality; when their beliefs and ideals are threatened, they are said to "go crusading" in defense of their ideas. These ideas generally deal with the good of humanity (and even other living things beyond humanity). Now, let's say that to fulfill your ideals, ten thousand people or so would have to be executed, and you will have to push the button - so to speak - but, once this is done, everything will be perfect and no more problems will arise; would you do it?

    *Note: When I say "everything will be perfect", I mean that it will be in fact so, not just seemingly so.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    This will be a harder question to answer (and possibly unanswerable), but do be honest. INFPs are known for being idealists and having strong convictions on morality; when their beliefs and ideals are threatened, they are said to "go crusading" in defense of their ideas. These ideas generally deal with the good of humanity (and even other living things beyond humanity). Now, let's say that to fulfill your ideals, ten thousand people or so would have to be executed, and you will have to push the button - so to speak - but, once this is done, everything will be perfect and no more problems will arise; would you do it?

    *Note: When I say "everything will be perfect", I mean that it will be in fact so, not just seemingly so.
    It depends how badly you want it and whether you are sacrificing one ideal for another. How do you perfect and what if you do not want perfect? Sometimes I wonder whether I and others of my type do not actually want our ideals to come true for if it all did we could no longer dream, ironically losing ourselves on the very point we should have become complete. As for the question it's easy to say you would not care that ten thousand people are cast aside for the sake of the bigger picture but when its on the cusp of becoming a tangible reality you may find yourself doubting your resolve. You may doubt it because you fear the realisation that you truly are capable of murdering countless people, a speculative possibility made into unquestionable fact. Perhaps you would not care and would fear instead the realisation that your ideals and dreams are coming true (INFPs do this a lot!) Either way second guessing can ensue which could derail all the plans and possible outcomes you may have forseen. Beware, we are treacherous (especially to ourselves!) At its most basic if the ultimate goal stands in opposition to another value but this other value is valued less than the ultimate goal then we would cast aside the lesser value for the greater one, however it may not be an easy dismissal for us.

    As for me, I do not know. I find it very hard to predict which emotion I will fear at n point in the future and if it's the same for other INFPs then I would see it as not occuring. If I wanted it badly enough then I would do so, hold my resolve at the critical moment of implementation and carry whatever comes to me after that, whether it be gratification or remorse for however long it lasts within me. For the latter it would not be perfection for me either way for if my perfection is to be without pain then it will not be granted (unless some cosmic shit causes me to feel no pain) and if my perfection is to be in endless pain then no matter how much pain I find myself in it would never be enough.

  6. #456
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I have a question about a phenomenon which I don't know if it is Fi or something else, so I was curious what people thought. I think this is something that anyone can suffer from, but I was wondering if it was more difficult for Fi. I have noticed that Si can have sensory imprinting, and so wondered if Fi can have emotional imprinting. This may be incorrect since an equivalent phenomenon involving Ti doesn't seem present as far as I can perceive it. Anyway, what do you all think about this experience?

    Emotional imprinting:
    People who have been deeply hurt in relationships can sometimes become emotionally imprinted upon. The frames through which they viewed and understood the hurtful partner are brought into new relationships, especially during conflict. They can impose the guilt, behaviors, and assumed responses onto a new person who operates differently. A neutral comment can be understood as an attack, motivations from the hurtful partner are assumed to be felt within the new partner.

    This can occur with great complexity as a result of the complexity of the past hurtful partner and the dynamic of the relationships. From what I have seen with friends and family, this tends to surface primarily in conflict and when feelings of vulnerability surface.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I have a question about a phenomenon which I don't know if it is Fi or something else, so I was curious what people thought. I think this is something that anyone can suffer from, but I was wondering if it was more difficult for Fi. I have noticed that Si can have sensory imprinting, and so wondered if Fi can have emotional imprinting. This may be incorrect since an equivalent phenomenon involving Ti doesn't seem present as far as I can perceive it. Anyway, what do you all think about this experience?

    Emotional imprinting:
    People who have been deeply hurt in relationships can sometimes become emotionally imprinted upon. The frames through which they viewed and understood the hurtful partner are brought into new relationships, especially during conflict. They can impose the guilt, behaviors, and assumed responses onto a new person who operates differently. A neutral comment can be understood as an attack, motivations from the hurtful partner are assumed to be felt within the new partner.

    This can occur with great complexity as a result of the complexity of the past hurtful partner and the dynamic of the relationships. From what I have seen with friends and family, this tends to surface primarily in conflict and when feelings of vulnerability surface.
    I believe "emotional imprinting" (if such a phenomena even exists) would be pure Si. Pain caused/mental scarring from certain stimuli would be Si data and not Fi at all. Fi isn't about emotions at all in my opinion. I do not believe any overlap between Fi functioning and emotion exists. All that happens is 1) Past is referenced and re-experienced and the brain creates an emotional reaction to this data as if it were a new occurrence. If it is harder for a strong Fi user than other types (which is debatable) it's merely that the introspective requirements for an Fi user to know their own values would make them more aware of other processes, in particular emotions. In this case they would lack insulation from emotion due to extensive observance and would not be able to hide from the extent of negative emotion so easily.

  8. #458
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I believe "emotional imprinting" (if such a phenomena even exists) would be pure Si. Pain caused/mental scarring from certain stimuli would be Si data and not Fi at all. Fi isn't about emotions at all in my opinion. I do not believe any overlap between Fi functioning and emotion exists. All that happens is 1) Past is referenced and re-experienced and the brain creates an emotional reaction to this data as if it were a new occurrence. If it is harder for a strong Fi user than other types (which is debatable) it's merely that the introspective requirements for an Fi user to know their own values would make them more aware of other processes, in particular emotions. In this case they would lack insulation from emotion due to extensive observance and would not be able to hide from the extent of negative emotion so easily.
    Interesting. The four people I know who experience this strongly all have aux or tert Si, but it's a mix of Fi and Fe, so what you propose makes sense. It is an interesting issue and there may be some way that Si combines with other functions to make it more intense. Really interesting idea you put forth here.
    I'm curious what others also think?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #459
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    This will be a harder question to answer (and possibly unanswerable), but do be honest. INFPs are known for being idealists and having strong convictions on morality; when their beliefs and ideals are threatened, they are said to "go crusading" in defense of their ideas. These ideas generally deal with the good of humanity (and even other living things beyond humanity). Now, let's say that to fulfill your ideals, ten thousand people or so would have to be executed, and you will have to push the button - so to speak - but, once this is done, everything will be perfect and no more problems will arise; would you do it?

    *Note: When I say "everything will be perfect", I mean that it will be in fact so, not just seemingly so.
    No.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    This will be a harder question to answer (and possibly unanswerable), but do be honest. INFPs are known for being idealists and having strong convictions on morality; when their beliefs and ideals are threatened, they are said to "go crusading" in defense of their ideas. These ideas generally deal with the good of humanity (and even other living things beyond humanity). Now, let's say that to fulfill your ideals, ten thousand people or so would have to be executed, and you will have to push the button - so to speak - but, once this is done, everything will be perfect and no more problems will arise; would you do it?

    *Note: When I say "everything will be perfect", I mean that it will be in fact so, not just seemingly so.
    Neither hard, nor unanswerable. A state of perfection which started with an act of genocide would be no perfection at all. I'd rather stick to taking the long way round and do it right.

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