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  1. #361
    Senior Member Sizzling Berry's Avatar
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    @Riva

    This impression may come from the fact that some INFPs tend to refuse indirectly.

    Very often they won't say "no". They will be silent - because for them it may feel less disturbing for the relationship. Some people may understand it as "yes".

    Hence the confusion.

    Very often it's not being flaky, it's a way of saying no. The signals are there from the start but they are more subtle. That's why INFPs get compared to cats.

    And why generally people refuse to help? Myriads of reasons.

    - They don't have enough resources.
    - They don't know how to.
    - From their perspective you don't need help.
    - They feel taken for granted.
    - They feel used etc, etc.
    Hot-hearted head

  2. #362
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzling Berry View Post
    @Riva
    That's why INFPs get compared to cats.
    We also enjoy undulating in the sun
    I'm partial to window seats.
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  3. #363
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Oh man. I've really had to work on this, for the past couple of years. Working on this is exactly why I'm so much more "chill" than the average 1w2 or ESTJ would be. I used to be completely unable to suffer fools gladly, and would call people out on their bullshit as a gut instinct -- which made me no friends at all. But once my Te matured -- and when I started actually listening to my Te in those situations, instead of letting my weak Fi run the show -- I started to figure out that it's more sensible in the long run, and more effective with wrong/incorrect people, to plan ahead, to be tactful, etc.

    My ENFP friend has known me since before I had that realization, and she's told me that since I learned to stay calm and quiet when people are stupid, I've started "sneak attacking" people. I'll calmly and innocently ask them questions about their wrong opinion, collecting as much information as I need, and then I'll "take them down". But I'll only do that if I think it's worth it; if I don't think they have a chance at changing, I won't even try, but I'll still ask all the questions just so I feel like I understand their opinion.

    This is always very good to remember.

    Indeed! I do this all the time, especially when I'm in 4 mode. "Shut up! You're not helping right now!!!"

    I wonder if it's an Fi thing? Just because I relate to it so much, and I don't know if I've seen an Fe type do that sort of thing before.
    It is always fascinating to see how opposing types can have much in common in terms of fundamentals.

    I think the Fi-Te balance increases with maturity, and with it, the two extreme manifestations are brought closer together, until eventually they start to resemble one another. When highly developed, they both seem to bring strength, decisiveness and resilience but also restraint, sensitivity and clarity. When you think about it you see it in words like "tolerance": it refers to both compassionate liberality and open-mindedness, as well as resilience and fortitude; both flexibility and steadfastness.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #364
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Random questions:

    1- What do you think about INTPs?
    2- What would you do if you had a time machine?
    3- Does money bring happiness?
    4- What would you do with one billion dollars?
    1. Frustrating, because they can be so awesome and so maddening at the same time. But then I have a tendency to attract the crazy ones...assuming there are ones who aren't crazy.

    2. Definitely messing around in another era; hopefully I will obliterate the future in the process. I'm not interested in re-living my own past so as to correct mistakes.

    And what's up with INTPs & their time travel obsession? Seriously, every single one I've known...

    3. Of course not, but it sure makes misery more comfortable.

    4. Get the hell out of this town, buy lots of amazing clothes, live a life of leisure dominated by personal creative & humanitarian projects... Oh yeah, invest some of it, give some of it away to support what I deem significant, & other responsible stuff. I actually am TOO level-headed with my money most of the time, so blowing some money would be a refreshing change of pace for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I am so awed and impressed with this. Could you elaborate on it a little more?

    The more I talk to NFs, the more amazed I am with the level to which you embrace your feelings and seem to have an intuitive (not in the MBTI sense) understanding of how they work and what they mean. The idea that you could protect your feelings in a little bubble while you go off and do something else is completely foreign to me.

    This quote explains it best, imo:

    Effective dominant Introverted Feeling types accept the nuances of feeling they experience as natural and welcome evidence of their own inner complexity. But feelings and emotions intruding into the consciousness of an Extraverted Thinking type who is in the grip of inferior Introverted Feeling asare experienced as so alien and overwhelming that they are inexpressible. From a Thinking point of view, the eruption of "illogical," uncontrolled, and disorderly feelings is like being at the mercy of strange and overwhelming forces that threaten a person's equilibrium, if not his or her whole existence.

    I was in the middle of responding to this when the site went offline

    The post I made in response to you in the other thread about smart women & the men who don't love them touches on the reason for this (what Naomi Quenk states about inferior Fi).

    It has to do with the inferior function being "undifferentiated". Feeling in the inferior is far more sentimental than in the dominant, which is why it feels so irrational & out of control, and like it needs to be repressed, caged, dismissed, etc.

    In the dominant, Feeling is arguably at its most abstract, meaning it's as fully separated from other elements (like emotions & memories) as a thought process can be (since neuroscience informs us there is NO clear line between cognition & emotion).

    For a Fi type, emotions are internalized & used as signals of value, so they're not scary unless they call on the Fi type to act in some external way regarding them. If there is a demand for some expression, and the if you're a Fe-tard (which I am), then there can be a problem with feeling overwhelmed. I think for me it actually triggers competency issues, which is inferior Te, but Je stuff tends to trigger it regardless.

    When I was younger, I would purposely seek to stir emotions up in myself, in private & often via art (music, literature, etc), simply because it was fascinating to me. It was like a science experiment.... What could I learn about the nature of people in this sort of internal test zone?
    It's not so much being intuitive about Feeling & emotions as spending a lot of time "studying" such things up close for a loooong time, since infancy probably.

    I always think of scientific classifications as a sort of illustration for Te thinking, and Fi is like the inverse of it. It's an inner, value classification; there's a seeking to make sense of things. It's just a lot less, er, dry than Thinking appears.

    Since emotions are largely used in such a way for a Fi type, there is a devaluation of anything which is not able to be used in this way. That means other people's emotions can be seen as "irrelevant data" when it comes to MY feelings, which are rational classifications of value (although again, experienced less dry &, er, coldly - although it can appear dry & cold at times). This is also why it WILL irritate me if I get the sense that someone is trying to influence my feeling with their feelings & emotions. If I feel the barrier is trying to be broken down, then I might stubbornly resist it & then I really can look cold & dismissive.

    I'm reminded of this passage from Jung on Fi:
    Any stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the woman on her unconscious side - that is, unless it hits her feelings by arousing a primordial image. In that case, she simply feels paralyzed for the moment, and this in due course invariably produces an even more obstinate resistance which will hit the other person in his most vulnerable spot. As far as possible, the relation of feeling to the object is kept to the safe middle path, where passion and its intemperateness are resolutely tabooed. Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly, and the other person has a permanent sense of being undervalued once he becomes conscious of it.
    I think you'll find this is less true of Fe types, and when they do manage to walk away untouched, it's for different reasons.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #365
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    And what's up with INTPs & their time travel obsession? Seriously, every single one I've known...
    Good question. Btw, we take it to another level.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Good question. Btw, we take it to another level.
    I don't understand why everyone isn't obsessed with time travel!! TIME TRAVEL IS AMAZING!!!

  7. #367
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I don't understand why everyone isn't obsessed with time travel!! TIME TRAVEL IS AMAZING!!!


    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  8. #368
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    INFPs,

    How do you feel about intent versus impact?

  9. #369
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    INFPs,

    How do you feel about intent versus impact?
    I feel that I that question.

    And it deserves more thought/time than I can currently give. To Be Continued.
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  10. #370
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I had a very interesting thought about time travel just the other day. That time travel is only possible for energy, but not actual mass, because if mass would travel back in time, it would clash with itself for the first bit of traveling back in time and breacks apart.

    Imagine an X moving forward in time, stopping, then moving backward in time. It would crash through itself!

    And that if you could hypothetically turn to energy, then travel back in time and materialize again, by say traveling at (or above it is now I believe) the speed of light, then what can be considered the anchor in space that decides at which point you drop out of the time travel, as opposed to the entrypoint. If say the universe has a center that all mass rotates around or moves away from and where all matter eventualy returns to after it loses its momentum from the big bang or whatever, then is it not logical that if you initate time travel from lets say, your living room. And you go back in time by about a fraction of a second, that you would then find yourself in your neighbours basement due to the distance the planet has traveled in relation to the anchor of the universe.


    INFP, dizzy much? :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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