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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    [...] Maybe it's because I'm sp-dom, or Fi-inferior, but I'm having a difficult time making myself believe that it would be worth it, with my less mature FP friends, to open up to them ever again, until I'm fairly certain that they would know how to react. I keep thinking, EJCC, you have other friends who would react better than that (like your ENFP friend!), and maybe you should talk to them instead. You don't want anyone to poke and prod at your raw wound -- you want someone to help you sew it up.
    I don’t have any problem with that. The course of action you're choosing is that of delegating roles to people at a dinner party: Accept that people have their own agendas, respect their autonomy, and adapt your interactions with friends according to their strengths and weakness.

    I suppose it’s the most “Fi-style” approach to the situation, in that Fi is about defining one’s own agenda/values and respecting the agenda/values/autonomy of others. Of course, it can be taken to extremes. INFPs sometimes get caught in the trap of not wanting to burden others with their needs and going into avoidance mode; but then the situation increasingly becomes about conflict-avoidance and important issues go unresolved.

    IOW, the standard INFP could try to be better at confronting people (sitting down and working out conflicts directly with people) or taking the risk of opening themselves repeatedly to unresponsive friends with the ultimate aim of establishing new modes of connection and interaction.

    But in your case, you seem to have good reasons for choosing the route you’ve chosen; also, I would never accuse an ESTJ of being conflict-avoidant or of being afraid to put themselves out there with others. If anything, it seems highly appropriate for an ESTJ to use an “Fi-style” approach with Fi-Doms.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Dear INFPs,

    Do you overanalyze situations to death?

    <3 One of You
    Yea, even old stuff that happened a long time ago. This includes the inner psychoanalyzing dialogue that I have within my fantasies, and the stuff that CreativeCait mentioned, etc. It used to get so bad in my teens haha. Over time I've gotten better at managing it. I'm more objective and not living in the past so much (Ne+Te development?).

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Dear INFPs,

    Do you overanalyze situations to death?

    <3 One of You
    Yeah, INFPs interact with the world via Ne, which is a open-ended, brainstorming, churning function. If any event in the outside world hits us strongly (an unexpected conflict, falling in love, breaking up with someone, or even just an awkward social moment), then we’re going to work it over in our minds ad nauseum.

    But we also generally try to hide that churning and agitation from the rest of the world. It can become a bottling-up thing, leading to a lot of stress building up under a seemingly placid exterior.

    [Edit:] To reach judgement and get closure on our thoughts, we need to process our thoughts through Fi (reach a judgement as to our own internal values/attutitudes toward the situation) and/or through Te (reach a judgment on how to deal with the situation in the exterior world and take action on it).

  4. #344
    Member CreativeCait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    But we also generally try to hide that churning and agitation from the rest of the world. It can become a bottling-up thing, leading to a lot of stress building up under a seemingly placid exterior.

    [Edit:] To reach judgement and get closure on our thoughts, we need to process our thoughts through Fi (reach a judgement as to our own internal values/attutitudes toward the situation) and/or through Te (reach a judgment on how to deal with the situation in the exterior world and take action on it).
    The bits in bold - anyone else been accused of being 'fake' or not showing people who you really are? Because its all happening inside and people get annoyed when what they see isn't what's "really going on" or what they see/think of you is not "really you" *sigh*

    Anyway to speed up the processing time?? Like how do you come to your Fi and Te judgements?? I just let my head go wherever it wants but that means it takes aaaaages before I get to the point of making judgements....by which time whatever happened is mostly over, for everyone else anyway...

  5. #345
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Dear INFPs,

    Do you overanalyze situations to death?

    <3 One of You
    That's a very complicated question. I will have to reflect on it a great deal more before I can answer...
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #346
    Insert witty line here... Ponyboy's Avatar
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    Awww, Southern Cross said the same thing I was gonna say. I wonder if its just because we agree, I mean that makes sense right? But then again, maybe she knew what I was going to say and wanted to jump in first. I don't really think that's the case though because that doesn't seem like something an INFP would do or care about, but then again I haven't studied much about the cognitive functions so maybe I'm missing something. It just doesn't seem like something I would do as an INFP, but then again if I really needed to I suppose I would. But then again I remember that I just wrote that I wouldn't so, ya I guess I wouldn't. Wait, what were we talking about again?
    I'm never wrong, I'm just sometimes less right

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreativeCait View Post
    The bits in bold - anyone else been accused of being 'fake' or not showing people who you really are? Because its all happening inside and people get annoyed when what they see isn't what's "really going on" or what they see/think of you is not "really you" *sigh*
    Not me. But I was always good at hiding it. I was aware of stress issues early along and worked out ways to manage my stress and vent privately rather than blow up publicly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CreativeCait View Post
    Anyway to speed up the processing time?? Like how do you come to your Fi and Te judgements?? I just let my head go wherever it wants but that means it takes aaaaages before I get to the point of making judgements....by which time whatever happened is mostly over, for everyone else anyway...
    Depends on the nature of the problem, of course.

    As for Fi, basically I handle that by saying, “I’m not that guy anymore...” To take a benign example:

    Let’s say I meet a pretty woman at a coffee shop and we agree to meet again casually in a couple days at some social venue. Naturally, as an INFP, my natural instinct would be to fantasize endlessly about her for the next two days and get all worked up, maybe to the point that I start dreading the meeting.

    But instead I say to myself “I’m not that guy anymore who moons over girls he just met. Nothing will probably even come of it. What happens, happens. In the meantime, I’m going to bury myself in work or whatever for the next couple days and not even think about the woman.” And then in a couple days I go to the social event and meet the woman again with a clear head.

    Naturally, just saying it once isn’t enough. The woman will drift into my thoughts at odd times. But I just keep repeating the above mantra and keep shoving her out of my mind and distracting myself, and my resolution takes hold over time and eventually becomes an Fi value of sorts. I come to regard that sort of teenage mooning as beneath me, and I simply refuse to indulge it.

    Again, that’s just a benign example. Many INFPs would even say that they enjoy engaging in romantic fantasies after meeting an attractive person of the opposite sex. So I’m just using that example to illustrate a simple way of using Fi judgment to put an end to Ne churning.

    As for Te, that’s more about getting used to organization, planning and action. Again, a lot depends on the nature of the problem. If it’s an interpersonal problem, you could look at a few different approaches and see what works best for the situation, as EJCC and I did a few posts above. If it’s a problem with handling a big project under a deadline, then it’s more about planning, breaking things down into small chunks that are easy to handle, etc.

    A good book I’m reading just now: “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen R. Covey. It’s a big bestseller from 1989. The first two “habits” (“Be proactive” and “Begin with the end in mind”) are more or less about consciously prioritizing your personal values and instilling them into your Fi, using personal mission statements and that sort of thing. The third habit (“Put first things first”) starts talking about how to do Te planning based on your Fi values, and so on....

    FWIW

  8. #348
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    You would be surprised how often strangers will open up to me (and it seems, to all INFPs). I have the exact same reaction as above, I'm very unnerved and I'm looking for the exit. But if I know someone, I don't usually react that way, especially if I like them and/or care about them.
    I'm surprisingly comfortable with this, maybe because it happens so much.
    It might be because I'm sp/sx too. I have this ability to keep my mood/feelings separate & untouched, so when I leave them, I'm back to MY mood; but I can still be very drawn into a one-on-one conversation about their problems/feelings & be able to empathise deeply. I've called this "emotional puzzle solving", which sounds kind of detached, but it honestly engages me in that way.... There are occasions when I feel a bit burdened, but that can be a matter of time/energy or the person really crossing an intimacy line too fast. The intimacy line is hard to cross for me though.... I think when you're sx dom or second, it's refreshing for people to be very open & raw, so you get to really dig into them.

    I mostly only resent someone dumping their problems on me when it's ALL they do & they don't return the same interest in me. I've had some "friendships" where I felt like an on-call therapist....I'd literally listen to them for hours & barely get any inquiry into how I was from them.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  9. #349
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm surprisingly comfortable with this, maybe because it happens so much.
    It might be because I'm sp/sx too. I have this ability to keep my mood/feelings separate & untouched, so when I leave them, I'm back to MY mood; but I can still be very drawn into a one-on-one conversation about their problems/feelings & be able to empathise deeply. I've called this "emotional puzzle solving", which sounds kind of detached, but it honestly engages me in that way.... There are occasions when I feel a bit burdened, but that can be a matter of time/energy or the person really crossing an intimacy line too fast. The intimacy line is hard to cross for me though.... I think when you're sx dom or second, it's refreshing for people to be very open & raw, so you get to really dig into them.

    I mostly only resent someone dumping their problems on me when it's ALL they do & they don't return the same interest in me. I've had some "friendships" where I felt like an on-call therapist....I'd literally listen to them for hours & barely get any inquiry into how I was from them.
    Really agree, especially with the bold part. I am pretty detached but very involved, if that makes sense. The problem I find is that people sometimes get confused when I'm not all emotional about their problems, they think it means I don't care. I can discuss their problems and feelings with intense interest and understanding for ages, but if they start getting emotionally needy I want to flee.

    There are only a few people where I get pulled emotionally into their feelings and problems, and in those situations it is almost always very negative for me... (family members that do the on-call therapist thing, some ex friends...)

    Edit: just thinking, my avoidance of any hint of emotional neediness is probably from being raised by an emotionally needy/manipulative mother
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  10. #350
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    If it makes you feel better those two concerns (ie 1. don't lose your temper because it's unproductive; 2. don't freak out and get all paranoid about what others are thinking about you) are very familiar to me. I have to spend a lot of time working on those myself.
    That does make me feel better.

    How do you usually approach those concerns, in yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Of course, it can be taken to extremes. INFPs sometimes get caught in the trap of not wanting to burden others with their needs and going into avoidance mode; but then the situation increasingly becomes about conflict-avoidance and important issues go unresolved.
    I find it so interesting that all four types of NFs seem to act like this, regardless of whether they're Fi or Fe. So many of them seem motivated by "not wanting to burden people". It seems like that's the #1 reason for NFs not opening up to people!
    But in your case, you seem to have good reasons for choosing the route you’ve chosen; also, I would never accuse an ESTJ of being conflict-avoidant or of being afraid to put themselves out there with others. If anything, it seems highly appropriate for an ESTJ to use an “Fi-style” approach with Fi-Doms.
    Thanks! I had thought of that as maybe a problem with my thought process that I needed to fix, but if I have the INFP Seal Of Approval, then I obviously have nothing to worry about.

    I am definitely not afraid of putting myself out there with others -- but I have moments of being conflict avoidant, definitely! Those moments are similar to the ones I described with friends who flake out on things: my Te tells me that I should be honest with them about how and why it frustrated me, but the massive void where my Fe should be ends up making me feel paranoid; I can't tell if they'll be offended, and I can't predict how they'll react, so I get paralyzed. Thank goodness this only happens to me very rarely!
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have this ability to keep my mood/feelings separate & untouched, so when I leave them, I'm back to MY mood
    I am so awed and impressed with this. Could you elaborate on it a little more?

    The more I talk to NFs, the more amazed I am with the level to which you embrace your feelings and seem to have an intuitive (not in the MBTI sense) understanding of how they work and what they mean. The idea that you could protect your feelings in a little bubble while you go off and do something else is completely foreign to me.

    This quote explains it best, imo:
    Quote Originally Posted by Naomi Quenk, "Was That Really Me?", p. 85
    Effective dominant Introverted Feeling types accept the nuances of feeling they experience as natural and welcome evidence of their own inner complexity. But feelings and emotions intruding into the consciousness of an Extraverted Thinking type who is in the grip of inferior Introverted Feeling asare experienced as so alien and overwhelming that they are inexpressible. From a Thinking point of view, the eruption of "illogical," uncontrolled, and disorderly feelings is like being at the mercy of strange and overwhelming forces that threaten a person's equilibrium, if not his or her whole existence.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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