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  1. #221
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I purposely inserted a bunch of moral dilemmas to see how/if Fi can undermine the ability to come up with an ''efficient'' solution. I really like INFPs but I'm still trying to understand Fi.
    Do moral dilemmas need efficient solutions? Efficient from which point of view? Life sentence is an efficient solution to serial killers when the objective is to keep them from killing citizens. It is not efficient if you consider the cost or if the objective is to cure the individual.

  2. #222
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Questions:

    1) Are you cognizant and accepting of what you really want? Moreso than FJs?

    2) Have you ever had issues with guilt and/or shame?

    3) How hesitant are you about voicing your opinions? Why?

    4) Do you desire to win the approval of others?

    Have a red panda, buddies!


  3. #223
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Do moral dilemmas need efficient solutions? Efficient from which point of view?
    That's why i said ''efficient'', you can't please everybody in those situations. ''Efficient'', in my view, would be the way that the expectancy of innocent people killed is minimal, a proper punishment is ensured, and people don't have to fund the maintenance of a parasite.
    Life sentence is an efficient solution to serial killers when the objective is to keep them from killing citizens. It is not efficient if you consider the cost or if the objective is to cure the individual.
    Well, but something must be done about them, right? I also take in consideration that life in prison can be worse than death, but it's more of a rationalization to justify the means.
    I'm just exposing my opinions, feel free to disagree. I hope you guys and gals aren't taking this personal, this is just a simulation.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  4. #224
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    under what circumstances will an infp break their value system?

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Hey INFPs. Imagine you are a leader and you have to decide the destiny of a serial killer. He killed more than 30 people and he had pleasure doing that.
    Do you think he should remain alive, serving a life sentence? Does he have the right to kill as much as he can and remain alive, sponsored by the society for the rest of his life?
    This is a tough one. Very sneaky little INTP.

    I personally don't believe we as humans have a right to take another human's life. However, if I am in a leadership position then that can potentially throw some twigs into the spokes of my Fi-cycle. Lol, man my Fi REALLY doesn't want to be pinned down on an actual opinion with this, but I will make her do it just the same.

    So to answer the first question: Should remain alive? After 30 people? My Innermost Fi says "yes", but the practicality of the other functions say "no." We can all thank Spock for his classic "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Final answer: no.

    Do you think he should have another chance in the future, even if that means putting people in danger?
    Ideally yes it would be awesome to give everyone a second chance in life. But unless psychology is able to leap forward and actually reprogram someone (which opens up a whole other can of ethical worms)... There is no way someone who has killed 30 people will be able to become a functional and positive member of society again. I am not willing to risk the ruination of countless other lives for one person who has already made bad choices.

    Do you consider that he never asked to be born a psychopath ?
    The people he murdered didn't ask to be murdered either.


    In summation, there is a 34% chance I would execute this person, 66% chance I would allow them to live in a prison for the remainder of their days. Things that would sway judgement in either case would be details on the cases. Were these people killed quickly? Or were their deaths dragged out? Etc.

    I have far more "sympathy" for people who kill someone else in the heat of the moment. The guy who comes home and finds his wife in bed with someone else - he snaps - kills them -- That I can understand. The guy who stalks his carefully chosen victim for 6 months, then spends 5 days slowly peeling her skin off... I don't get that at all.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Questions:

    1) Are you cognizant and accepting of what you really want? Moreso than FJs?

    2) Have you ever had issues with guilt and/or shame?

    3) How hesitant are you about voicing your opinions? Why?

    4) Do you desire to win the approval of others?

    Have a red panda, buddies!

    1- Haha, I am NOW. I have spent most of my life not knowing what I want out of life. It took a lot of uphill battles, backsliding, and in the end it took some tough times for me to finally figure it all out. The biggest changes have come from the past 2 years of my life. I had to clean figure out what the most important things in my life are, and then I had to learn how to show my true self to people. I always thought I had to "find" myself... Oh life will be awesome if I could just FIND myself. No. The truth of it all is that I had to just BE myself. All other things just fall into place. I know what I want from life now, and I am no longer afraid to go for those things.

    2- Lol. I grew up Catholic... Guilt and shame I know them well. There are a lot of dumb things I have done in my life, and I used to beat myself up about them all of the time. One of the biggest changes I've made in my life is learning to let go of things. It's all about choice in the end, and I choose to not dwell on these issues anymore. They helped make me who I am today, for better or for worse, but I am no longer letting them affect my future. It is very tough to not 'go there" with these two emotions, because it's so easy to simply blame myself on things and internalize them. One thing I have learned is that it is far easier to say "no" to myself, than to other people.

    3- I have gotten more vocal over the years, but it occasionally still tough.

    For issues that are very personal to me:
    For me it's because Fi is such an internal process... that it can be very difficult/feel impossible to adequately explain to someone else. I dislike having external forces influence what I have come up with internally. I have found that I have an easier time with this if I am able to build the "road" up slowly with someone. Basically I will test the water and see how they react to me voicing an opinion. If all seems fine, then I will continue onward building up my trust with them as we go. This is especially important in relationships because it is such a natural instinct for me to withdraw and want to handle something on my own. However, I know that that will not help our relationship if I do that... so I work hard at counteracting this instinct as much as possible. Being with someone who has patience for this is huge. Once achieved the reward is a good relationship with me.

    For other issues:
    I have no problem with telling people my opinion. I may hold off if I think my opinion will offend/hurt someone. But if I get asked for my honest opinion on something... the odds are that they will get just that!

    4- Um.... yes and no. The majority of humanity - pass... The select few that I deeply care about? Definitely is a factor to some extent. In the end I still have to simply be myself though. But I do want to make my friends and family proud of me and the person that I am. I want to reflect back the love and support they have given me, by me being more loving and supportive.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minute_Maid View Post
    under what circumstances will an infp break their value system?
    Extremely unlikely circumstances on par with a black hole spontaneously erupting next to Mars.

    I have winnowed down my value system to the key aspects that mean the most to me. They are the ones that feel the purest and truest to me. If I am to be the best me I can be... I have to follow this system because it's the best part of me. I have compromised my value system countless times in the past and the end result has been...............not good*.


    *deletes giant emo melodramatic paragraph about souls dying, etc.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Do moral dilemmas need efficient solutions? Efficient from which point of view? Life sentence is an efficient solution to serial killers when the objective is to keep them from killing citizens. It is not efficient if you consider the cost or if the objective is to cure the individual.
    I think these dilemmas are when we need to hire an XNTJ consultant and delegate the decision making to them for awhile.

  9. #229
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Do you connect to other people with ease?

    Do you act/express how you feel about others without awkwardness?
    5 3 9

  10. #230
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    Do you connect to other people with ease?

    Do you act/express how you feel about others without awkwardness?
    A clear no to both questions, those two things are very difficult issues for me in my life situation.

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