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[INFJ] INFJ complexity...

SilkRoad

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Most type descriptions of INFJs say that they are complex individuals. I think that most people who are INFJs relate to this on some level, either with despair, or with pride, or some mixture of the two.

Do you think others perceive us as complex, or is it more that we perceive ourselves as complex?

For myself, I think others perceive me as highly intelligent (not saying that to boast, it's just I've been told that enough times!!) and with a wide and somewhat eclectic variety of interests and pursuits...but that they also perceive me as fairly straightforward, in the way that I interact with others. I think (partly from my own observation of myself, and partly from others' comments) that I usually come across as quite engaging and adaptable with others. I also get comments like "sensible but fun."

However, I think others start to perceive me as complex when I have dark moods and strong emotions which I sometimes (not always) have difficulty hiding; when I speak passionately about things which others see just as light pastimes or abstract moral concepts; when I have what seem to be disproportionate emotional reactions which I can speak about logically but can't really control otherwise; or when I behave in a way that seems quite inconsistent with my usually consistent approach to life and people (ie. I'm seen as a caring friend but if I get to a point where I just can't emotionally handle being around someone, I drop them/disappear. Very infrequently, but it does happen.) I think people can also be confused by the fact that I seem to bear some setbacks/challenges with equanimity and resilience, when they would knock a lot of people over...but then I get knocked over and have great difficulty recovering from things which many/most others see as being no big deal.

I guess I do think of myself as complex but I wish I wasn't. I am finding it very exhausting and I find it difficult when I can't predict how I'm going to feel, especially in that realm of disproportionate emotional reactions. Probably I am getting better at predicting those reactions as I get a bit older and develop more self-knowledge and coping skills. But just as in life there are experiences which are always even better than you remember or think they're going to be, there are experiences which are always worse than you recall them being the last time, and that's hard to cope with.

Lately I feel as though I am standing on the parapet, seriously considering throwing down the boiling oil. Or I'm running through a maze, further hampered by sticky threads entangling me, or masses of cotton wool.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Like the old saying about garbage/treasure: one man's "complex" is another man's "painfully high maintenance". I think I run the gamut, as far as whether other people find me complex [edit: meaning that some people don't perceive it as 'complex' so much as 'too much high maintenance']. And I sort of vacillate between the two, as far as my own opinion is concerned.
 
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SilkRoad

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Like the old saying about garbage/treasure: one man's "complex" is another man's "painfully high maintenance". I think I run the gamut, as far as whether other people find me complex. And I sort of vacillate between the two, as far as my own opinion is concerned.

Yes... A lot depends on what side of you people get to see. Different people see different aspects of you in life, unless you're very very close to them. Even then I'm not sure anyone gets to see the whole picture.

I think others occasionally describe me as complex, but it's interesting that I NEVER get called high-maintenance. In fact, people have often told me specifically that I am the opposite. Unfortunately, that can also lead to them underestimating my emotional reactions, which leads to me feeling unappreciated and like I'm being taken advantage of...etc etc. That's the generally calm exterior with the roiling cauldron of interlaced emotions underneath. ;)
 

Z Buck McFate

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It's possible we have different associations for "complexity". I have a positive association with it, as if it means a good thing. And nothing is a good thing to all people.

I've had many people feel that I make things 'more complicated than they need to be'. Whereas it seems to me like I happen to notice how things are more complicated than they initially seem. Anyone who generally doesn't want things to get more complicated than they initially seem is going to find me a pain in the ass. I do what I can to keep it out of other people's way, but not everyone can be avoided and sometimes it gets on other's nerves (and really, they get on mine- so no biggie).
 

SilkRoad

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It's possible we have different associations for "complexity". I have a positive association with it, as if it means a good thing. And nothing is a good thing to all people.

I've had many people feel that I make things 'more complicated than they need to be'. Whereas it seems to me like I happen to notice how things are more complicated than they initially seem. Anyone who generally doesn't want things to get more complicated than they initially seem is going to find me a pain in the ass. I do what I can to keep it out of other people's way, but not everyone can be avoided and sometimes it gets on other's nerves (and really, they get on mine- so no biggie).

I think whether I feel that "complex" is positive or negative is very dependent on my emotional state generally. There are certainly times when I feel that being "complex" allows me to see below the surface of things, that it makes me more interesting, that it makes life richer and more interesting for me, etc. However, if I'm feeling tired and overwhelmed, I'm probably just going to feel that my complexity makes me prone to being misunderstood. I guess that's more where I'm at currently. It's very context-dependent...

As for the second part of your comment, I hear you. Well, sometimes I feel about myself that I may be making things more complicated than they actually are. But then again, I basically think that things ARE complicated.
 

Viridian

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I'm not sure the word "complex" is an appropriate description, since that implies that some types are "simpler" than others, or have less "substance"... Maybe the term "nonlinear" is closer to the gist of it? :thinking:
 

Skyward

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I'm seen as odd rather than complex thanks to a lack of rigid mental processes due to the Ni/Se combination is less about weaving facts together than naturally seeing how they all do/might connect. It's instinctive. Sometimes I have profound insight into other people, and other times I'm dumber than a box of hammers.

I envy Si users (NPs, SJs) and their stable intellectual structure. Consciously remember facts, connect them together. I have to hope facts stick to the gelatinous substance that is my Ni-based psyche and then I can use them naturally, without consciously thinking.

I'm not sure the word "complex" is an appropriate description, since that implies that some types are "simpler" than others, or have less "substance"... Maybe the term "nonlinear" is closer to the gist of it?
Nonlinear is a good term. There are definitely other types that are 'simpler' because they are more straightforward. INFJs, in general, aren't straightforward.
 

SilkRoad

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"Nonlinear" probably is good. "Complex" does seem to get thrown around in a lot of INFJ type descriptions though. They may just be copying each other. ;)

I remember reading a great comment in another thread some time back, re INFJs and this question. I think it may have been Fidelia (very likely!). It was something to the effect that the essence of who an INFJ is tends to be buried rather deep or there are many layers - their essence isn't close to the surface. In some other types it is closer to the surface, which just basically means that it's easier to get a handle on who people of those types are, easier to get something close to the whole picture. With an INFJ you may be more likely to just get glimpses of their essence/soul and those may or may not add up to a coherent picture. Or the "coherent picture" may not be terribly accurate.

I certainly feel very exposed if I think I'm showing a lot of myself to someone and I don't have full trust in them. There is also the ever-present danger that I think I can trust them fully but in the end I can't so it will turn out to be another big mistake... I daresay in my case this may also have to do with being e6.

I think Ni is really doing my head in these days. I feel really overloaded very easily and stuck in various exhausting loops which are terribly difficult to break/break out of.

However, I also think that I have pretty strong Fe and that this probably makes me seem more stable and straightforward than I actually am...I suspect...

Oh, and I relate to sometimes being fantastically intuitive and perceiving things that virtually no one else can, and other times being painfully stupid and not seeing what is screamingly obvious to everyone else. ;)
 

nolla

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I don't think you are complex. The things that can be seen as complexity come from the fact that an INFJ is more likely to not adapt well to the world. I don't mean it to sound like you should, by the way... It's just that the inner compass you guys seem to have is something that isn't easily explained. I know a couple of INFJs and it is quite obvious to me that there are strict ethical guidelines in what they do with their lives, but it's not like I've ever seen them make a bulletpoint presentation of them. I can see the direction they are going, and when they make a decision I can understand that it is something that fits the person, but I can't necessarily see the logic. So, maybe you are complex to people who value bulletpoints...?
 

variable_vixen

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Hi evryone, I am new to the site, and I am looking forward to exploring who I am and truly coming to terms with it. Um I am slightly confused and if anyone can offer any advice, I would greatly appreciate it. I took the typology test many times a few years ago, and everytime I took it I got INFJ. Fastforward to now, I have done alot of work on myself and I am alot happier and outgoing than I used to be. I took the typology test again last month and got INFJ, I took it twice today and I keep getting INFP. At first I thought I was definatly INFJ, but now I dont know, I am introverted and hyper aware of my self and others as a INFJ, and yet I feel like there are several careers I would be good at, and its hard for me to make decisions like a INFP. i definately feel like I lean more strongly on the INFJ side, I am a people pleaser, I hate small talk, I need help knowing who I am, I am deep, and complex, and even I dont get myself sometimes. Is it possible to be both INFJ and INFP? help!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

rav3n

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Hope you don't mind the intrusion but out of all the NF's, INFJs think things through the most. For me to follow you, it's like tilting my head to understand. It's cool!
 

SilkRoad

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Hope you don't mind the intrusion but out of all the NF's, INFJs think things through the most. For me to follow you, it's like tilting my head to understand. It's cool!

Don't apologise for intruding...seriously, is it cool, or is it just obsessive and too much?! :huh:
 

rav3n

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Don't apologise for intruding...seriously, is it cool, or is it just obsessive and too much?! :huh:
This would depend on perspective. From my perspective, it's an interesting read. Not sure what it's like to be an INFJ and don't know any in real life enough to share what their personal experiences have been.
 

SilkRoad

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This would depend on perspective. From my perspective, it's an interesting read. Not sure what it's like to be an INFJ and don't know any in real life enough to share what their personal experiences have been.

Speaking for myself and just maybe for some other INFJs, I think there can be a lot of enjoyment in seeing things from unusual and oft-overlooked perspectives, and it can be very useful and interesting to have a generally good read on human nature and the motivations of others. But it can be pretty exhausting when you get trapped in the windmills of your own mind and emotions. "Exhausting" is so often the word that comes to mind for me.
 

rav3n

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Speaking for myself and just maybe for some other INFJs, I think there can be a lot of enjoyment in seeing things from unusual and oft-overlooked perspectives, and it can be very useful and interesting to have a generally good read on human nature and the motivations of others. But it can be pretty exhausting when you get trapped in the windmills of your own mind and emotions. "Exhausting" is so often the word that comes to mind for me.
Do you ever find that it's time to shut this down, distract yourself with something else and then, the answer just pops into your mind? One of those Ni moments.
 

SilkRoad

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Do you ever find that it's time to shut this down, distract yourself with something else and then, the answer just pops into your mind? One of those Ni moments.

Kind of...but even knowing it's "time to shut down" can often not save me. This is a real big problem for me. Lately I've known it's been "time to shut down" (ie. stop obsessing about some things I'm trying to leave behind, stop with the self-examination unless it's clearly productive...etc) for at least the last month or so, but the voices in my head just won't shut up. Certain things help: some form of entertainment or study which helps me shut off and think of other things, generally staying busy, socializing, having a drink...though the latter can be a slippery slope. But I really hate it when I KNOW I should have let myself out of the maze long ago, and I can't seem to. Then it's worse, because not only am I exhausting myself by running in circles, but I'm annoyed with myself for being obsessive and getting stuck in negative patterns of thinking.

I am a little better at snapping out of this state of mind than I used to be, and I am also more aware that things like not sleeping and eating enough don't help. But it is still one of my biggest challenges.
 

guesswho

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All types are complex. Common complexity ceases to be complex because it's more understood, and more common. The enigma of the uncommon adds to the complexity of other types...so the least common type is the most complex type.

I don't even know what words such as complex are supposed to describe, everybody just interprets it subjectively.
 

Crescent Fresh

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Do you think others perceive us as complex, or is it more that we perceive ourselves as complex?

Excellent question. Coincidently, I've been thinking a lot about this issue as I've been experienceing some personal conflicts with a few people who mean a world to me.

To answer your question, I often felt that when others judged us as being complex when we think excessively over small issues with lots of detailed analytical approach. This usually happends when INFJ tries to protect others or defend ourselves as we usually hated for being misjudged (which is an irony as we also tend to misjudge others at times). Then when things didn't work out the way as we wanted, or things started to become twisted in a negative way which we didn't intend, we tend to blame ourselves by believing ourselves that we are the "problem" and often regrets of our communication style. Well at least for me, I do tend to jump into the conclusion too soon as I lack of the ability to look at the big picture.



I've had many people feel that I make things 'more complicated than they need to be'. Whereas it seems to me like I happen to notice how things are more complicated than they initially seem. Anyone who generally doesn't want things to get more complicated than they initially seem is going to find me a pain in the ass. I do what I can to keep it out of other people's way, but not everyone can be avoided and sometimes it gets on other's nerves (and really, they get on mine- so no biggie).

I think this has to do with our overtly-protective-mother nature. Seriously, I've often been told that, "Geez, you sound even more intense than my mother!" (Don't you just hate that? When our motive of protection is in its purest nature?). When I started to psychoanalyze something, it's often based on my own eerie sixth sense of preceiving something is wrong (also we tend to be good at reading people, though not as much as ENFP). I think generally, most INFJ are not obssessed on "solving" a potential problem but we hope to avoid or even block a possible conflict. When others catch our over-sensitivity, especially when they don't "get" it, they often view us as being just plainly paranoid. I think that's the most frustrating thing that I've been experience in life so far--a few words of caution toward other often bring an unfavorable outcome. *sigh*
 

Crescent Fresh

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I think whether I feel that "complex" is positive or negative is very dependent on my emotional state generally. There are certainly times when I feel that being "complex" allows me to see below the surface of things, that it makes me more interesting, that it makes life richer and more interesting for me, etc. However, if I'm feeling tired and overwhelmed, I'm probably just going to feel that my complexity makes me prone to being misunderstood. I guess that's more where I'm at currently. It's very context-dependent...

For me, it really depends on my state of mind. If I'm feeling stress, I really tried hard to stay out of giving advices as there's a chance for my genuine advices getting twisted (for thinking "too much"). This often leads to bad ending to both parties. However, when we're in a good state of mind, we can see things "much deeper" than others because it's just our nature to strive for maintaining a perfect relationship and harmony with others--and usually it works out positively.



As for the second part of your comment, I hear you. Well, sometimes I feel about myself that I may be making things more complicated than they actually are. But then again, I basically think that things ARE complicated.

I agree. I'm a firm believer that every one of us is constantly wearing a mask, but just depends on how many masks we chose to wear. For me, my emotions is often filled with sentiments and I'm naturally drawn to agony--perhaps that's one of the reason why I'm very patience in listening to others when they reveal their dark side. I hate to admit that rather than feeling more empathetic, I take it as a brilliant opportunity for getting close to them, by letting them sharing their inner-pains with me.
 
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