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Thread: Ethical crisis.

  1. #1
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    Question Ethical crisis.

    Me? LOL

    Yeah.

    Have you ever told someone a lie to alter someones feelings for you?

    I did recently. Although it has had the desired effect, (Win/Win?)
    It's starting to feel like a loss for me.
    I do care great amounts for this person and I know my lie hurt her.
    I also feel like I damaged my reputation with this person.
    At the time I didn't consider this, but I do care what she thinks of me.

    She is an ex partner and has had difficulty in letting go.
    I don't blame her on two counts.
    First, I ended our relationship with a smack she never saw coming and so closure for her is going to be more difficult to obtain by default, and secondly: I am nice to her, I like her and care and I can't always hide it. I feel maybe this gives her hope and so she hangs on.

    The obvious thing to do is cut off all communication. Sometimes that is not so easy.

    What I ended up doing in a state of frustration, is tell her that I am engaging in cheap sex with people simply because "I can".
    Her response tells all..She said "Listen to yourself, Have you gone mad??"
    I knew it would hurt and the deviation from my normal behavior would scare her.

    It worked. She has not contacted me and seems to finally be moving on with things.

    But I feel like shit.

    My questions.

    Should I just leave it as it is, since I know what I did is effective and it was the "right and merciful" thing to do, even if the method was underhanded?

    Or should I come clean and thus, maybe save a little face and spare her feelings, but also perhaps reignite her interest in "us".?

    Any advice?

    Thanks

    Arc.

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    You mean, in a way of speaking, "Does the end justify the means?"

    My gut reaction is that, since you're the one who chose this course, you don't really have a right to reopen the wounds that you have helped to scab over by what you told her in this situation. Whatever was unfair before, that would be very unfair to her to drag her back into things just because you feel guilty about your lie. You made the decision; thus, you get to carry the burden of that choice without dragging her back into your mess.

    However, I think if I were in that situation originally, I'd simply feel like it was duty to be honest but kind, and if I thought the relationship needed to end, then I'd need to buckle down and break off contact. When two adults start trying to take care of each other's feelings by sparing them or lying to them, I think it just leads to more trouble and also prevents one or both sides from learning how to face situations head-on, thus robbing them of adult resiliency. And, I think, it leads to even more feelings of betrayal if the subterfuge is ever exposed, and inability to trust anyone.

    Honesty is painful and creates some immediate hardship right up front, but trying to dodge it just creates more long-lasting damage IMO.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Whatever the consequences, she deserves to know you didn't value her so little that you chose cheap sex over her just because you could. I don't believe that telling her the truth would reignite her interest in you as a couple when you have already made your distaste for the relationship so apparent. Then again, I suppose she might take the disclosure as indication of reawakened feelings or something.

    Regardless, she deserves to know. Do her the credit of allowing her to work through her issues at her own pace; it's only right. Not to mention the fact that you'll feel a hell of a lot better about yourself even if things might be inconvenient for you for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You mean, in a way of speaking, "Does the end justify the means?"

    My gut reaction is that, since you're the one who chose this course, you don't really have a right to reopen the wounds that you have helped to scab over by what you told her in this situation. Whatever was unfair before, that would be very unfair to her to drag her back into things just because you feel guilty about your lie. You made the decision; thus, you get to carry the burden of that choice without dragging her back into your mess.

    However, I think if I were in that situation originally, I'd simply feel like it was duty to be honest but kind, and if I thought the relationship needed to end, then I'd need to buckle down and break off contact. When two adults start trying to take care of each other's feelings by sparing them or lying to them, I think it just leads to more trouble and also prevents one or both sides from learning how to face situations head-on, thus robbing them of adult resiliency. And, I think, it leads to even more feelings of betrayal if the subterfuge is ever exposed, and inability to trust anyone.

    Honesty is painful and creates some immediate hardship right up front, but trying to dodge it just creates more long-lasting damage IMO.
    OH God!! this is all true..

    Gentle but assertive honesty wasn't working and this person is not above a little manipulation herself.
    But you are right. I made my choice and going back on it now is wimpy.

    BTW Jen, can you move this thread into the NF personal threads? I feel it's more suited for there than here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    She deserves to know you didn't value her so little that you chose cheap sex over her just because you could. And I can't believe that telling her the truth would reignite her interest in you as a couple when you have already made your distaste for the relationship so apparent. Then again, I suppose she might take the disclosure as indication of reawakened feelings or something.

    Regardless, she deserves to know. Do her the credit of allowing her to work through her issues at her own pace; it's only right. Not to mention the fact that you'll feel a hell of a lot better about yourself even if things might be inconvenient for you for a while.
    You see?? Jennifer speaks to my head, and you, to my heart.
    I agree with both of you.

    That's why I am in crisis over it.

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    your wish is my command.
    (at least... for this thread)

    EDIT: Ha, two responses, two opposing answers.
    Love it!


    Well, if your head and heart don't agree, then you need to listen to... what? your spleen? I'm off the beaten track now. (Or you go with the true-and-tried method that people have used for centuries to resolve issues of emotional and spiritual significance: Flip a coin.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Me? LOL

    Yeah.

    Have you ever told someone a lie to alter someones feelings for you?

    I did recently. Although it has had the desired effect, (Win/Win?)
    It's starting to feel like a loss for me.
    I do care great amounts for this person and I know my lie hurt her.
    I also feel like I damaged my reputation with this person.
    At the time I didn't consider this, but I do care what she thinks of me.

    She is an ex partner and has had difficulty in letting go.
    I don't blame her on two counts.
    First, I ended our relationship with a smack she never saw coming and so closure for her is going to be more difficult to obtain by default, and secondly: I am nice to her, I like her and care and I can't always hide it. I feel maybe this gives her hope and so she hangs on.

    The obvious thing to do is cut off all communication. Sometimes that is not so easy.

    What I ended up doing in a state of frustration, is tell her that I am engaging in cheap sex with people simply because "I can".
    Her response tells all..She said "Listen to yourself, Have you gone mad??"
    I knew it would hurt and the deviation from my normal behavior would scare her.

    It worked. She has not contacted me and seems to finally be moving on with things.

    But I feel like shit.

    My questions.

    Should I just leave it as it is, since I know what I did is effective and it was the "right and merciful" thing to do, even if the method was underhanded?

    Or should I come clean and thus, maybe save a little face and spare her feelings, but also perhaps reignite her interest in "us".?

    Any advice?

    Thanks

    Arc.
    It sounds like you're playing a lot of games.... Why are the only choices to scare her away with lies, cut off all communication, or just continue to lead her on? (By being nice to her with no further explanation of what's going on in your head?) It sounds like you are the one with the problem letting go, not her. The obvious thing to do is not to cut off all communication. If you have an ounce of respect for her at all, you will explain everything that is going on in your head (with English words, not questionable actions with mixed meaning), so that your message will be clear.

    Her reaction sounds normal. I would absolutely rip you a new asshole if I was her. I can't tell you the amount of people that I've given this same lecture to. What is people's beef with honesty??

    (This is not an angry "I suddenly hate you!" rant, but it sounds like you need a slap on the wrist!)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  8. #8
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    You see?? Jennifer speaks to my head, and you, to my heart.
    I agree with both of you.

    That's why I am in crisis over it.
    My hand would be speaking to your face if I was that girl! (Saying this with a half smile on my face...There is no smilie that has a half smile.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    It sounds like you're playing a lot of games.... Why are the only choices to scare her away with lies, cut off all communication, or just continue to lead her on? (By being nice to her with no further explanation of what's going on in your head?) It sounds like you are the one with the problem letting go, not her. The obvious thing to do is not to cut off all communication. If you have an ounce of respect for her at all, you will explain everything that is going on in your head (with English words, not questionable actions with mixed meaning), so that your message will be clear.

    Her reaction sounds normal. I would absolutely rip you a new asshole if I was her. I can't tell you the amount of people that I've given this same lecture to. What is people's beef with honesty??

    (This is not an angry "I suddenly hate you!" rant, but it sounds like you need a slap on the wrist!)
    Hmmm.. On the surface I can see your point of view.
    And I do deserve a kick in the ass regardless.
    The thing is , it's like I m waking up from one seriously long nightmare here, or even better, I am sobering up after a really long bender and I am like "WTF dude?? Look at this bloody mess"
    SO I feel confronting this stuff head on , instead of spinning it is my best solution.
    And maybe a few people kicking my ass is useful.. I have started to get some spankings from people recently,and it seems to be working.

    All I can say is.. She knows how to pull my heart strings too. She knows a few of my weaknesses and has no shame in exploiting them.
    She chooses to keep contact more than I do.
    I have also been very honest about what's in my head.. even if what is in my head, is a bunch of confused nonsense.
    One Thing I am clear on is.. I can't find my way back to her. And I have already tried more often than I should have.
    I have used those words.. Is it too vague?. "I can't find my way back to you"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Hmmm.. On the surface I can see your point of view.
    And I do deserve a kick in the ass regardless.
    The thing is , it's like I m waking up from one seriously long nightmare here, or even better, I am sobering up after a really long bender and I am like "WTF dude?? Look at this bloody mess"
    SO I feel confronting this stuff head on , instead of spinning it is my best solution.
    And maybe a few people kicking my ass is useful.. I have started to get some spankings from people recently,and it seems to be working.

    All I can say is.. She knows how to pull my heart strings too. She knows a few of my weaknesses and has no shame in exploiting it.
    She chooses to keep contact more than I do.
    I have also been very honest about what's in my head.. even if what is in my head, is a bunch of confused nonsense.
    One Thing I am clear on is.. I can't find my way back to her. And I have already more often than I should have.
    I have used those words.. Is it too vague. "I can't find my way back to you"


    I think the best thing to do would be to just tell her that you lied about the sex, and then just say something along the lines of being confused and not being able to communicate, (even use the waking up after a bender analogy), and then just say you're sorry but you just need a lot of space and time to clear your thoughts, and that it might be best if you didn't talk for a while. (Or ever. If that's what you want.)

    That way you are truthful and respectful, no mixed messages, there is some closure and yet you still get to distance yourself and not have to be totally vulnerable with her.

    I know a lot of people would disagree with me to tell a girl that you're confused or unsure of your thoughts... At the same time, at least it's some honesty. (and progress from not saying anything..)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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