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[Other] Ethical crisis.

Arclight

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Me? LOL

Yeah.

Have you ever told someone a lie to alter someones feelings for you?

I did recently. Although it has had the desired effect, (Win/Win?)
It's starting to feel like a loss for me.
I do care great amounts for this person and I know my lie hurt her.
I also feel like I damaged my reputation with this person.
At the time I didn't consider this, but I do care what she thinks of me.

She is an ex partner and has had difficulty in letting go.
I don't blame her on two counts.
First, I ended our relationship with a smack she never saw coming and so closure for her is going to be more difficult to obtain by default, and secondly: I am nice to her, I like her and care and I can't always hide it. I feel maybe this gives her hope and so she hangs on.

The obvious thing to do is cut off all communication. Sometimes that is not so easy.

What I ended up doing in a state of frustration, is tell her that I am engaging in cheap sex with people simply because "I can".
Her response tells all..She said "Listen to yourself, Have you gone mad??"
I knew it would hurt and the deviation from my normal behavior would scare her.

It worked. She has not contacted me and seems to finally be moving on with things.

But I feel like shit.

My questions.

Should I just leave it as it is, since I know what I did is effective and it was the "right and merciful" thing to do, even if the method was underhanded?

Or should I come clean and thus, maybe save a little face and spare her feelings, but also perhaps reignite her interest in "us".?

Any advice?

Thanks

Arc.
 

Totenkindly

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You mean, in a way of speaking, "Does the end justify the means?"

My gut reaction is that, since you're the one who chose this course, you don't really have a right to reopen the wounds that you have helped to scab over by what you told her in this situation. Whatever was unfair before, that would be very unfair to her to drag her back into things just because you feel guilty about your lie. You made the decision; thus, you get to carry the burden of that choice without dragging her back into your mess.

However, I think if I were in that situation originally, I'd simply feel like it was duty to be honest but kind, and if I thought the relationship needed to end, then I'd need to buckle down and break off contact. When two adults start trying to take care of each other's feelings by sparing them or lying to them, I think it just leads to more trouble and also prevents one or both sides from learning how to face situations head-on, thus robbing them of adult resiliency. And, I think, it leads to even more feelings of betrayal if the subterfuge is ever exposed, and inability to trust anyone.

Honesty is painful and creates some immediate hardship right up front, but trying to dodge it just creates more long-lasting damage IMO.
 
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011235813

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Whatever the consequences, she deserves to know you didn't value her so little that you chose cheap sex over her just because you could. I don't believe that telling her the truth would reignite her interest in you as a couple when you have already made your distaste for the relationship so apparent. Then again, I suppose she might take the disclosure as indication of reawakened feelings or something.

Regardless, she deserves to know. Do her the credit of allowing her to work through her issues at her own pace; it's only right. Not to mention the fact that you'll feel a hell of a lot better about yourself even if things might be inconvenient for you for a while.
 

Arclight

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You mean, in a way of speaking, "Does the end justify the means?"

My gut reaction is that, since you're the one who chose this course, you don't really have a right to reopen the wounds that you have helped to scab over by what you told her in this situation. Whatever was unfair before, that would be very unfair to her to drag her back into things just because you feel guilty about your lie. You made the decision; thus, you get to carry the burden of that choice without dragging her back into your mess.

However, I think if I were in that situation originally, I'd simply feel like it was duty to be honest but kind, and if I thought the relationship needed to end, then I'd need to buckle down and break off contact. When two adults start trying to take care of each other's feelings by sparing them or lying to them, I think it just leads to more trouble and also prevents one or both sides from learning how to face situations head-on, thus robbing them of adult resiliency. And, I think, it leads to even more feelings of betrayal if the subterfuge is ever exposed, and inability to trust anyone.

Honesty is painful and creates some immediate hardship right up front, but trying to dodge it just creates more long-lasting damage IMO.

OH God!! this is all true..

Gentle but assertive honesty wasn't working and this person is not above a little manipulation herself.
But you are right. I made my choice and going back on it now is wimpy.

BTW Jen, can you move this thread into the NF personal threads? I feel it's more suited for there than here.
 

Arclight

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She deserves to know you didn't value her so little that you chose cheap sex over her just because you could. And I can't believe that telling her the truth would reignite her interest in you as a couple when you have already made your distaste for the relationship so apparent. Then again, I suppose she might take the disclosure as indication of reawakened feelings or something.

Regardless, she deserves to know. Do her the credit of allowing her to work through her issues at her own pace; it's only right. Not to mention the fact that you'll feel a hell of a lot better about yourself even if things might be inconvenient for you for a while.

You see?? Jennifer speaks to my head, and you, to my heart.
I agree with both of you.

That's why I am in crisis over it.
20.gif
 

Totenkindly

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your wish is my command.
(at least... for this thread)

EDIT: Ha, two responses, two opposing answers.
Love it!


Well, if your head and heart don't agree, then you need to listen to... what? your spleen? I'm off the beaten track now. (Or you go with the true-and-tried method that people have used for centuries to resolve issues of emotional and spiritual significance: Flip a coin.)
 

King sns

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Me? LOL

Yeah.

Have you ever told someone a lie to alter someones feelings for you?

I did recently. Although it has had the desired effect, (Win/Win?)
It's starting to feel like a loss for me.
I do care great amounts for this person and I know my lie hurt her.
I also feel like I damaged my reputation with this person.
At the time I didn't consider this, but I do care what she thinks of me.

She is an ex partner and has had difficulty in letting go.
I don't blame her on two counts.
First, I ended our relationship with a smack she never saw coming and so closure for her is going to be more difficult to obtain by default, and secondly: I am nice to her, I like her and care and I can't always hide it. I feel maybe this gives her hope and so she hangs on.

The obvious thing to do is cut off all communication. Sometimes that is not so easy.

What I ended up doing in a state of frustration, is tell her that I am engaging in cheap sex with people simply because "I can".
Her response tells all..She said "Listen to yourself, Have you gone mad??"
I knew it would hurt and the deviation from my normal behavior would scare her.

It worked. She has not contacted me and seems to finally be moving on with things.

But I feel like shit.

My questions.

Should I just leave it as it is, since I know what I did is effective and it was the "right and merciful" thing to do, even if the method was underhanded?

Or should I come clean and thus, maybe save a little face and spare her feelings, but also perhaps reignite her interest in "us".?

Any advice?

Thanks

Arc.

It sounds like you're playing a lot of games.... Why are the only choices to scare her away with lies, cut off all communication, or just continue to lead her on? (By being nice to her with no further explanation of what's going on in your head?) It sounds like you are the one with the problem letting go, not her. The obvious thing to do is not to cut off all communication. If you have an ounce of respect for her at all, you will explain everything that is going on in your head (with English words, not questionable actions with mixed meaning), so that your message will be clear.

Her reaction sounds normal. I would absolutely rip you a new asshole if I was her. I can't tell you the amount of people that I've given this same lecture to. What is people's beef with honesty??

(This is not an angry "I suddenly hate you!" rant, but it sounds like you need a slap on the wrist!)
 

King sns

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You see?? Jennifer speaks to my head, and you, to my heart.
I agree with both of you.

That's why I am in crisis over it.
20.gif

My hand would be speaking to your face if I was that girl! (Saying this with a half smile on my face...There is no smilie that has a half smile.)
 

Arclight

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It sounds like you're playing a lot of games.... Why are the only choices to scare her away with lies, cut off all communication, or just continue to lead her on? (By being nice to her with no further explanation of what's going on in your head?) It sounds like you are the one with the problem letting go, not her. The obvious thing to do is not to cut off all communication. If you have an ounce of respect for her at all, you will explain everything that is going on in your head (with English words, not questionable actions with mixed meaning), so that your message will be clear.

Her reaction sounds normal. I would absolutely rip you a new asshole if I was her. I can't tell you the amount of people that I've given this same lecture to. What is people's beef with honesty??

(This is not an angry "I suddenly hate you!" rant, but it sounds like you need a slap on the wrist!)

Hmmm.. On the surface I can see your point of view.
And I do deserve a kick in the ass regardless.
The thing is , it's like I m waking up from one seriously long nightmare here, or even better, I am sobering up after a really long bender and I am like "WTF dude?? Look at this bloody mess"
SO I feel confronting this stuff head on , instead of spinning it is my best solution.
And maybe a few people kicking my ass is useful.. I have started to get some spankings from people recently,and it seems to be working.

All I can say is.. She knows how to pull my heart strings too. She knows a few of my weaknesses and has no shame in exploiting them.
She chooses to keep contact more than I do.
I have also been very honest about what's in my head.. even if what is in my head, is a bunch of confused nonsense.
One Thing I am clear on is.. I can't find my way back to her. And I have already tried more often than I should have.
I have used those words.. Is it too vague?. "I can't find my way back to you"
 

King sns

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Hmmm.. On the surface I can see your point of view.
And I do deserve a kick in the ass regardless.
The thing is , it's like I m waking up from one seriously long nightmare here, or even better, I am sobering up after a really long bender and I am like "WTF dude?? Look at this bloody mess"
SO I feel confronting this stuff head on , instead of spinning it is my best solution.
And maybe a few people kicking my ass is useful.. I have started to get some spankings from people recently,and it seems to be working.

All I can say is.. She knows how to pull my heart strings too. She knows a few of my weaknesses and has no shame in exploiting it.
She chooses to keep contact more than I do.
I have also been very honest about what's in my head.. even if what is in my head, is a bunch of confused nonsense.
One Thing I am clear on is.. I can't find my way back to her. And I have already more often than I should have.
I have used those words.. Is it too vague. "I can't find my way back to you"

:yes:

I think the best thing to do would be to just tell her that you lied about the sex, and then just say something along the lines of being confused and not being able to communicate, (even use the waking up after a bender analogy), and then just say you're sorry but you just need a lot of space and time to clear your thoughts, and that it might be best if you didn't talk for a while. (Or ever. If that's what you want.)

That way you are truthful and respectful, no mixed messages, there is some closure and yet you still get to distance yourself and not have to be totally vulnerable with her.

I know a lot of people would disagree with me to tell a girl that you're confused or unsure of your thoughts... At the same time, at least it's some honesty. (and progress from not saying anything..)
 
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011235813

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Yes, across the internet at least, that sounds incredibly vague. It could give her the impression that perhaps she could help you find your way back to her, even if you can't do it yourself. You seem quite articulate--I'm sure you'll hit upon an approach that's gentle without being misleading. Don't leave her any avenues to pursue this thing farther by using imprecise language.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think going back on a decision that went wrong is wimpy at all.
 

King sns

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Me? LOL

Yeah.

Have you ever told someone a lie to alter someones feelings for you?

I did recently. Although it has had the desired effect, (Win/Win?)
It's starting to feel like a loss for me.
I do care great amounts for this person and I know my lie hurt her.
I also feel like I damaged my reputation with this person.
At the time I didn't consider this, but I do care what she thinks of me.

She is an ex partner and has had difficulty in letting go.
I don't blame her on two counts.
First, I ended our relationship with a smack she never saw coming and so closure for her is going to be more difficult to obtain by default, and secondly: I am nice to her, I like her and care and I can't always hide it. I feel maybe this gives her hope and so she hangs on.

The obvious thing to do is cut off all communication. Sometimes that is not so easy.

What I ended up doing in a state of frustration, is tell her that I am engaging in cheap sex with people simply because "I can".
Her response tells all..She said "Listen to yourself, Have you gone mad??"
I knew it would hurt and the deviation from my normal behavior would scare her.

It worked. She has not contacted me and seems to finally be moving on with things.

But I feel like shit.

My questions.

Should I just leave it as it is, since I know what I did is effective and it was the "right and merciful" thing to do, even if the method was underhanded?

Or should I come clean and thus, maybe save a little face and spare her feelings, but also perhaps reignite her interest in "us".?

Any advice?

Thanks

Arc.

I don't know, Arc. Sounds like her response was more accurate than hurt. From a female perspective, I'd be more annoyed than anything. Maybe, briefly hurt. More annoyed and thinking, "what the hell is wrong with this dude?" Especially after you said something cryptic like, "I can't find my way back to you." It's all too confusing and dramatic. I'd be like, "peace out, man." Most mature people can respect forthright conversations. As an INFJ, you have it made, too, because you can probably have a forthright conversation without being too... Uh. Forthright, I guess. You can say honest and direct stuff and still make it sound nice and gentle. You may feel like shit because you haven't been dignified or honest with her or yourself. Go back and get a cleaner break or you'll just be adding to your emotional mess.

(Edit: I think it will help her move on, too. Help her realize that she didn't do anythng wrong...)
 

CrystalViolet

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If you were going for a complete break....that did it.
I'd leave it be, maybe apologise a few months down the track, but don't keep toying with her heart. Let her move on.
 

countrygirl

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If you were going for a complete break....that did it.
I'd leave it be, maybe apologise a few months down the track, but don't keep toying with her heart. Let her move on.


I agree with this. I once had to be mean to an ex to get the point across because he couldn't let go. That's life.
 

Homer

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If you were going for a complete break....that did it.
I'd leave it be, maybe apologise a few months down the track, but don't keep toying with her heart. Let her move on.

wow this is cool, I agree with this too.

if being subtle hasn't worked to break it up, this may have been just the thing.
I have had some experience with clingons, and I found being brutally honest was the best thing, but one time that didn't even work so I think you did the right thing?

good luck with the break:cheers:
 

Mysterious15

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Well then as there have been many wise people who have already commented, I think I can add in my two-pence without feeling too embarrassed, :)
I believe you should write a letter, I know, I know she might take it as you degrading her, and she definitely does deserve the truth in person, but writing will help. You can explain the reasons for what you did, tell her how you were feeling at that time, say you are very sorry, and that you both can stay as friends if she wants to. In the end of the letter you can leave a place and time to meet; wait for an hour or so over there, if she wants to talk face to face then she will come.
Going back on a decision is not something uncourageous, rather it takes a lot of guts to realize you were wrong. Making a decision is a very hard thing, even though you might have made a wrong one, at least you did do something.
The reason I am telling you to go apologize and explain EVERYTHING, (when I say everything I mean from the beginning it will also make yourself understand stuff more) is because if you don't then it will stay with you. Forever. (pretty dramatic huh? :D)
It will come back to you in the most peaceful of moments, before you go to sleep, after you wake up, even while you are working. It won't go away, especially the guilt and self-hatred. Living with it is possible, but the only way to make it go is to discuss properly with the person. Write a letter first, (or email) and humbly explain yourself. It may take an hour or so for you to finally finish writing but it will help, write things as clearly as possible without ambiguous wording. :D
Ok thats all........you can scold on me on giving such childish advice now. :)
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, well, I guess my point is, the ex is kind of the victim here... not the OP... so I'm not sure why someone would prioritize the OP's "peace of mind" above that of the woman he is supposedly wanting to do this for.

I guess it's a different mentality; but I always felt that, if I was the one who caused someone else hurt, then my peace of mind was expendable and should not be the priority in any efforts I made to "do right" by the person I wounded. (Otherwise I would still be acting in a self-absorbed way at the expense of, yet again, the other person.) If I have sleepless nights over it, or a lingering guilt? Well, that's the outcome of my original bad choice; better that, then hurting someone all over again.
 

Kasper

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Yeah, well, I guess my point is, the ex is kind of the victim here... not the OP... so I'm not sure why someone would prioritize the OP's "peace of mind" above that of the woman he is supposedly wanting to do this for.

That's how I see it, you've hurt her, going back now to readdress what hurt her will likely ease your comfort while messing with her even more. Allow her to be angry at you.
 

Mysterious15

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You are right in the different mentality part.......:) it is very selfish of the person to cause her more hurt just by wanting to clear up some lies. But well she does deserve the truth, it would be a great blow to her own judgment if she found out that Arc was really such a person don't you think?
It could cause her not to ever trust herself again, and be very insecure, which is a greater price in the long run than feeling hurt for some time.
Well this situation is like everything in life, there are many pro's and con's, it depends on one's own disposition and moral values of which to choose. :D
Like that famous saying (can't remember the exact words though sorry) '
The world is not black nor white, but shades of grey.'
:D
 

Totenkindly

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You are right in the different mentality part.......:) it is very selfish of the person to cause her more hurt just by wanting to clear up some lies. But well she does deserve the truth, it would be a great blow to her own judgment if she found out that Arc was really such a person don't you think? It could cause her not to ever trust herself again, and be very insecure, which is a greater price in the long run than feeling hurt for some time.

I do understand why you're going there. Just to examine the possibilities, though, if he goes back and she had believed THIS reason, isn't it the same problem...? At some point, she DID believe him, regardless of which point that is, and no matter what is done, he's still potentially undermining her confidence in her own perception because at some point she will discover she was wrong about him.

(Personally, I think it's just as likely that she'll talk to other people down the line to get affirmation on her perceptive abilities, and other people will help her sort through things and reaffirm/adjust her perceptive abilities. At this point, the OP can hold no real trust and she'll have to reference other opinions anyway, to help her calibrate her view on what happened.)
 
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