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  1. #151
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    is it normal for an ENFP to be extremely introverted until mid teens?
    Elfboy, I'm not sure if its normal.. since I doubt my own extroversion. I was incredibly shy until about 9-10ish. Then I came out of my shell and became a efen ring leader of many social groups, lol. I was also an only child for along time.. and this may have had some play on me being shy and unsure around other kids. Anyhow, I HAVE noticed in threads of ENFP childhood experienes, that many ENFP's (if correctly typed) seem to convey being "in their own world" during childhood, and identify with shy qualities. So this probably isn't going to give you a clear line on your preference. I am to the point that I truly believe I might be an Ambivert, landing so close to the dichotomy that it depends what is going on in my personal life. Right now, I am showing some pretty extreme introversion qualities based on my focus, afterall I'm stuck working at home alone for great lengths of time.. and have really thrown myself into this typology stuff... so my world tends to be focused on my own self analysis, thoughts, feelings, and I'm less prone to keep a good grasp on external events. However, most of my life I was not at the place I am now, and seemed to focus on the external, comparing with the external, and needing people quite a bit.

    I wonder..... if it is common for extroverts to begin to doubt their preference when delving into Jung and typology. In a way, to understand the depths of typology and themselves, they MUST self reflect on theory, right? It seems that the study of typology itself would bring anyone to a more introverted state... what do you think?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #152
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ i also think that there's a huge difference between a cognitive extravert and a social extravert that is not often clarified, until you delve much deeper into typing. most social introverts recognize themselves as introverts, and it's pretty easy to identify an EJ, but those of us in the middle - mainly ENPs and ISPs - who are rather ambiverted - are likely to have more trouble discerning. because Ne can be removed from the immediate world, while Se is completely engaged in it, i think we can tend to see them as dominant forces. however, i've noticed that ISPs seem to be better able to tell that they are in fact I - i suppose it's clearer from the inside - but ENPs seem to struggle because we resist the E label, being well aware of how very much time we spend completely in our heads. what we don't recognize is that most of the time we are "in our heads", we are actually not - we're still thinking about external stimuli, even though we're not immediately engaging with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    is it normal for an ENFP to be extremely introverted until mid teens?
    i don't know about extremely, but it seems like a majority of ENFPs i've heard on the board have at least some experience with feeling more introverted when younger, or at least in being more introverted than your average profile would seem to attest to. personally i was a very independent child, and became more shy around my teens, and then blossomed socially in college. i still am somewhat independent though - if i don't like the people around me, i'd much prefer just doing things on my own. i do like to have people around, though, and preferably i would like to interact with pleasant ones.

  3. #153
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ^ i also think that there's a huge difference between a cognitive extravert and a social extravert that is not often clarified, until you delve much deeper into typing. most social introverts recognize themselves as introverts, and it's pretty easy to identify an EJ, but those of us in the middle - mainly ENPs and ISPs - who are rather ambiverted - are likely to have more trouble discerning. because Ne can be removed from the immediate world, while Se is completely engaged in it, i think we can tend to see them as dominant forces. however, i've noticed that ISPs seem to be better able to tell that they are in fact I - i suppose it's clearer from the inside - but ENPs seem to struggle because we resist the E label, being well aware of how very much time we spend completely in our heads. what we don't recognize is that most of the time we are "in our heads", we are actually not - we're still thinking about external stimuli, even though we're not immediately engaging with it.



    i don't know about extremely, but it seems like a majority of ENFPs i've heard on the board have at least some experience with feeling more introverted when younger, or at least in being more introverted than your average profile would seem to attest to. personally i was a very independent child, and became more shy around my teens, and then blossomed socially in college. i still am somewhat independent though - if i don't like the people around me, i'd much prefer just doing things on my own. i do like to have people around, though, and preferably i would like to interact with pleasant ones.
    I'm about 75% sure I'm ENFP, but the IFP child description sounded strikingly similar to my childhood
    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/IFP.html

    the ENP child desciption was less accurate
    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENP.html
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  4. #154
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    IFP Traits
    Very idealistic
    Take things seriously and personally
    Quiet and gentle
    Extremely sensitive

    Shy and reserved with strangers
    Enjoy reading
    Service-oriented, they want to please others
    They love animals and small babies
    Likely to be messy and unstructured
    They need lots of love and affection


    Potential Strengths
    Deeply caring and empathic
    They're usually very kind and sweet
    Laidback and easygoing, they're not likely to create trouble
    They adapt well to new situations, and welcome change
    They're usually relaxed, peaceful and unrushed
    Usually extremely creative and artistic
    They are original and genuine
    Take things seriously, and aren't likely to be frivolous
    They need harmony, and can be good peacemakers
    They're faithful and devoted to people and causes
    They're often quite faithful to their religion


    Potential Weaknesses
    They're extremely sensitive and become hurt very easily
    They cannot use logic well at a young age
    They don't really have a concept of time or schedules, so they are frequently late
    May be reckless and irresponsible with money
    Tendency to let negative thoughts build up inside them until it becomes an unhealthy situation

    They cannot see things objectively - they see everything from their own point of view
    If they feel rejected or unloved, they may become very depressed and moody
    They are procrastinators and have trouble completing projects
    They are so internally focused that they are sometimes completely unaware of how anyone else is feeling
    They have difficulty expressing their deepest feelings, and are sometimes unaware of these feelings themselves
    Although they care deeply about others, they are self-absorbed and so may be seen as selfish
    They cannot take any kind of criticism, and will become defensive and emotional when criticised
    They don't like to make decisions, and will put it off as long as possible
    They often view decisions with absolute finality, and don't realize that they can change their mind later
    They naturally move slowly doing things, which makes them sometimes appear lazy
    They have trouble asserting themselves


    IFP Learning Style
    IFPs often are dreamy and imaginative children, and may seem to be off in their own world. They usually excel in the Humanities, such as English (Writing), Music, Art, and History. They will be interested in Science classes that have a clear human connection, such as Biology.
    IFPs will resist doing tasks that seem impersonal, for which they can't see how it affects the human element. Presenting sheerly logical tasks within the framework of how performing the task helps humans will help the IFP face the task more willingly. Logic is still not their strong point, so patience learning these kinds of tasks will have to be shown. Since they're not naturally logical and they don't naturally see the value of sheer logic, the IFP is at a disadvantage with these kinds of lessons.


    IFPs have trouble making decisions about which project they want to do, or which class they want to take, etc. They are often fearful of making decisions because they think that they are final and unalterable, and they're afraid of making the wrong choice. IFP children should be helped to make these kinds of decisions on their own, and they should be supported and encouraged in the decisions that they make. Positive reinforcement will help the IFP to trust their decision-making abilities.

    IFP children have trouble following through on projects. They may lose interest halfway through, and move onto the next exciting project. IFP children need to learn the value of finishing what they start. They will not finish all of their projects, but they can be expected to finish at least the larger, more important projects that they have begun. This should be encouraged with a reward system, rather than a punishment system. IFPs are often crushed by punishment and criticism.

    IFP children are frequently scattered in their priorities, and dislike making decisions or commiting themselves to one particular idea. To combat this tendency, teachers and other adults should frequently tell IFP children to "pick one thing and do it well". Engraining this idea in the IFP's mind will offer a significant gift to the developing IFP, and the adult that they will become.

    When giving constructive criticism or a poor grade to an IFP, also give some positive feedback so that the IFP is not frightened off from doing that type of task again in the future.


    IFP Special Needs
    The biggest stumbling block for IFP children (and for IFP adults) is their extreme sensitivity. IFP kids need to learn and understand that conflict is not something they should always take to heart. The IFP's opinion of himself or herself is largely influenced by other people's opinion of them. If the IFP feel unconditional love and acceptance, they are more likely to feel self-confident, and will be able to handle some criticism. However, IFP's will probably have a lifelong issue with feeling things passionately, and with taking any criticism completely to heart. When correcting an IFP, a parent should always include some positive comment about the IFP along with the negative. This will help the child to know that a specific criticism is not an indictment of their entire character.
    Their strong service-oriented attitide is in some ways very sweet and gratifying, but it also can create problems for the IFP child if they are more interested in pleasing people than in anything else. There will be situations presented to the child in which they will not be able to please everyone. The child needs to understand that it's sometimes OK to do something that might make someone else unhappy. They need to understand that if someone is unhappy with something that the IFP has done, that doesn't mean that they hate the IFP child. Avoiding making others upset or unhappy is an admirable goal, but it can't always be done.

    Parents and teachers of IFP kids should give positive feedback and affirmation as often as possible. Some Thinking adults often don't express love or admiration. They believe that their kids already know how they feel, so there's no need to say it over and over again. Feeling children need to hear this feedback. If an adult doesn't give them any feedback at all, this is often equal to negative feedback in the Feeling child's mind.

    IFP kids should be encouraged to show some healthy assertiveness. They should be told that it's OK to express their opinions even if everyone won't agree with them, or if their opinions make someone unhappy. Encouraging your child to express their opinion, and then supporting and complimenting their behavior will help them to become more assertive. If you can't agree with the actual opinnion that they express, at least you can compliment them on the fact that they are asserting themselves. If your child has a problem with asserting himself or herself, you should NOT criticize the opinions that they express until they show that they are comfortable with asserting themselves.

    bold: yes
    underlined: kind of
    strike: no

    The "Missing" Letter
    Adult personality types contain four letters, while for kids aged 7-12 we use three letter types. What happened to the missing letter? It's there, we just can't usually determine what it is until after a person is 13 years old. IFP kids will grow up to be either ISFP "Artists" or INFP "Idealists". At this stage in their development, it's not obvious whether they will choose Intuition or Sensing to complement their Feeling function. You will see the child practicing both Intuition and Sensing as they settle down into their preferred function. In some children, it's possible to distinguish their "missing" letter, but for many kids we just have to wait a few years to be sure.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #155
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Vicky Jo Varner did say that extraverts often think they're introverts yet introverts seldom think they're extraverts... Maybe she was thinking about ENPs, she mentions quite a few of them or her "INFJ or INFP?" webpage.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Vicky Jo Varner did say that extraverts often think they're introverts yet introverts seldom think they're extraverts... Maybe she was thinking about ENPs, she mentions quite a few of them or her "INFJ or INFP?" webpage.
    I read this as well. I wonder why that is though? Why is it easier to know your and introvert than an extrovert?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #157
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    it's only fair I do the other too

    ENP Traits
    They have a lot of energy
    They're curious about everything, and seem to be always asking "Why?"
    They have lots of ideas and love to talk about them

    They always have several projects going on
    They want to be original and interesting
    They like to be leaders, and resist following

    They're very social
    They're very independent, and want to do things for themselves
    They want to be the center of attention
    They probably tend to be dramatic, and enjoy acting or performing

    They're outspoken and energetic, and may interrupt frequently, or finish people's sentences for them

    Potential Strengths
    They're usually cheerful, optimistic, and fun to be around
    They're enthusiastic and fearless
    They believe that anything is possible
    They have very good communication skills and a strong ability to persuade others to come around to their point of view
    They usually have a good vocabulary, and can express themselves well in written and verbal form
    They're very clever
    They show an unusual understanding of people and situations for a child

    They have good people skills and are usually well-liked
    They naturally see the possibilities of a situation and the "big picture"

    Potential Weaknesses
    They frequently forget rules, or else they never knew them in the first place They have a lot of projects going on at one time, and may be scattered
    They frequently don't finish their projects
    They're usually very messy, and dislike cleaning up
    They tend to speak in a very loud voice without realizing it
    They have difficulty making decisions, and often resist decisions
    They are often unaware of their physical environment

    They may not take good care of themselves
    They're not usually very aware of time or schedules
    They don't like being controlled by others, and may be rebellious
    They dislike being asked to do anything, and will often act very "put upon" by any request


    ENP Learning Style
    ENPs like to be busy and active, and need a lot of stimulation to keep from getting bored. They find tasks that require rote memorization intensely boring. They also don't do well with following pre-defined steps that someone else has come up with. ENPs like to be involved in their projects. They will only put effort into things that they are very interested in doing, which typically means that they need to have come up with the idea or contributed to it somehow. Alternatively, they can be motivated to participate in projects if someone else has really sold them on the idea, and thus inspired them to be interested in the project.
    ENPs are distracted easily from the task at hand, and need to really develop their ability to focus in on what they're doing and close out environmental distractions. This is an acquired skill for ENPs. This does not mean that the ENP should be put in a room by themselves to work on their assignments. This would actually be detrimental to the ENP. They work best with others, and around others. They should be encouraged to work on their projects in the presence of others, but to remain focused on what they're doing.

    ENPs have trouble finishing projects that they have begun. This is partially due to the fact that they are easily distracted environmentally, but also due to the fact that they quickly lose interest in their projects once they are past the planning phase. ENPs love to come up with interesting ideas and things to do, but find the process of actually implementing their plans to be tedious. ENPs will not finish all of their projects, and this should be understood, but the ENP should be encouraged to complete some projects all the way through to the end. This is an important step for the ENP, who needs to learn the value of following through.

    The most valuable thing that can be taught to an ENP is the concept of narrowing their focus. The ENP has many ideas going on at once in their head, and believes that they can do everything. They are not realistic in their scope. They should be told repeatedly "pick one thing and do it well". The adult who is able to impress this upon the young ENP will be giving them a tremendous gift.

    ENPs are not very concerned with their grades, or with doing their homework. They will resist doing assignments that they find tedious. They are far more interested in understanding the theory behind a problem than they are in actually doing the problem. They learn best by theory rather than by example. They need to understand the theory before they can do anything. Teachers should communicate the theory behind the practical application in order to get through to the ENP.

    Let's use division as an example. Some children learn how to divide numbers best by doing it over and over again. They learn by example and repetition. Once they have done a lot of different division problems, they understand how it works and are comfortable with dividing numbers. ENPs learn division best by understanding the concepting of dividing a whole number into smaller parts. They see a circle with a line drawn down the middle, and understand that the whole has been cut in half, or "divided" in half. Once they understand the theory, they can apply this to their division problems and they are comfortable with dividing numbers.

    ENPs are goal-oriented, and do well when given the goal and left alone to achieve it in their own way. They don't like being told explicitly how to do things. They value their own ideas and competence, and treat explicit instructions almost as an insult to their intelligence. They want to be given a goal and a general theory, and use their own resources to fill in the blanks.

    ENP Special Needs
    ENP children are extremely perceptive about people, and can determine someone else's attitude pretty easily. If a parent disciplines their ENP child reluctantly or with hesitation, the ENP will pick up on that immediately and perceive that they might be able to get away with pushing you to not discipline them. In general, the ENP tests their boundaries regularly, and will always try to push their boundaries out a bit further. If they're supposed to be in bed at 9:30, they'll push for 10:00. When they get 10:00, they'll push for 10:30. Boundaries and guidelines need to be defined explicitly and firmly for the ENP child.
    ENPs believe that anything is possible, so they have a hard time accepting that they can't get their way. This creates a problem for parents trying to create guidelines for their ENP children's behavior. ENPs believe that surely things could be worked out in any situation so that the ENP gets want they want, and consequently they have a really hard time accepting that they're not going to get their way. For an ENP, being told that they can't do something or have something is perplexing and troubling. They will push repeatedly and ask repeatedly for whatever it is that they're seeking. In order for them to accept their parent's judgment, they need to be told WHY the parent has set the rule or boundary. The rule needs to be defined explicitly to the ENP child, with no room for alternative interpretation.

    ENP children are very independent and find their greatest source of self-esteem from their abilities to do things well. They want to do things for themselves, and resist having their parents or other adults telling them what to do. An adult can best encourage a growing ENP by showing interest in their projects and admiration for the ENP's ideas, and by letting the ENP figure out how to do things on their own without too many specific instructions. This is different from the approach that should be taken when defining guidelines for behavior. Rules and boundaries should be set firmly for the child, but specific instructions on achieving goals should be avoided.

    The "Missing" Letter
    Adult personality types contain four letters, while for kids aged 7-12 we use three letter types. What happened to the missing letter? It's there, we just can't usually determine what it is until after a person is around 13 years old. ENP kids will grow up to be either ENTP "Visionaries" or ENFP "Inspirers". At this stage in their development, it's not obvious whether they will choose Thinking or Feeling to complement their preference for Intuition. You will see the child practicing both Thinking and Feeling as they settle down into their preferred function. In some children, it's possible to distinguish their "missing" letter, but for many kids we just have to wait a few years to be sure.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  8. #158
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    @ Elfboy-
    Reading through the above, I relate to MANY of the INFP & ENFP charactoristics. Here are the ones I don't relate to as much on INFP

    -Being extremely sensitive. I was pretty sensitive as a child, but It's something I've grown out of quite a bit. I still get my feelers hurt from time to time, and can occasionally see an attack on my belief as an attack on me, but I've become MUCH better in brushing attacks off. I've learned to rationalize how they are NOT attacks on me personally, and how ones motivtions are different than my own.
    -Take things seriously and aren't likely to be frivolous. I scoff. I CAN take things seriously, but when things get too serious, I become a comedian. I have also been known to be extremely frivolous from time to time..
    -Not likely to make trouble. I wish. Maybe it just follows me. Truth is, I sometimes enjoy rattling people (not hurting) and If I am challenged, I find it very difficult to back down. Even when wrong. It feels weak to me, and I can sometimes view others as weak for backing down too, even though I can rationally understand the benefits of this.
    -Often faithful to religions. I'll perceive this as spiritual beleif. I am not faithful to any one belief, my stance changes quite a bit, and I am ever exploring different ideas. I've moved from atheist, to modern spirituality, to buddhims, to agnosticsm alot.

    Ultimately, I do not find logic or sensitivity to criticism as my own achilles heal. However, I would say the biggest problem in my life IS organization and consistency. If there is one area that I wish to improve, it is this, yet I absolutely SUCK at following any kind of routine. I let shit go for weaks and weaks, then the chaos drives me mad and I flip out and spend 2 or 3 days organizing everything. Then I let it go for weaks and weak again. I've pinpointed it to the maintenance part. I simply can not maintain organization on almost any level. It's like, I know that when I walk in the door I should put my keys in one spot, because then I will always know where they are, yet I drop them on a table instead. I KNOW that I should put my clothes in a laundry hamper, but in that moment its easier to throw them across the room. I know it would be better for me to put my bills in a filing cabinet, yet i shove them ontop of the fridge to be forgotten about. I'm notorious for letting my email accounts rack up to 4k emails, then once every few months I go back and delete them. <----- What is this? Is this inferior Te?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #159
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    I was sensitive as a child too, but starting at age 10 I got less and less sensitive to the point where I'm now about as sensitive as most NTs
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I read this as well. I wonder why that is though? Why is it easier to know your and introvert than an extrovert?
    I don't think it means that. If the theory is true, then there is a higher chance that an introvert is really a mistyped extravert. So, that would mean that if you think you are an extravert, it is statistically more likely that you really are, compared to a person thinking they are introverts.

    I think that the question is, why do people like the idea they are introverts? Or maybe some extraverts are more aware of their shyness and anti-social aspects than others, and then get the idea they are introverts.

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