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  1. #121
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Totally just remembered something else I wanted to add in here..
    looking at the inferior functions.. ENFP inferior Si

    Ex. that I've seen..

    Getting so caught up with things (socializing, researching, reading, whatever the hell the ENFP does hehe) they tend to forget simple body queue's like the need to use the bathroom, the need to eat, etc. until it becomes overwhelming. Sooo true in my case. If I had a dollar for every "potty dance" I've done when *suddenly realizizing* this can't wait, I might be rich.. and be able to sit on this forum forever bullshitting

    The inferior Te in INFP's.. anyone offer up a good example?
    this may be more of an instinctual variant thing (part of the enneagram). my strongest instinct is self preservation, so I notice physical pain, comfort/discomfort and the desirability pretty much immediately.
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  2. #122
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Does this sound more INFP or ENFP? Is this inferior Si or Te more like?

    1) I have absolutely the worse Si. I forget important moments in my life, important conversations, important details. Sometimes they just pop into my head and I am horrified that I'd forget words/actions of such importance. When I am in one of my bad days, I tend to get stuck in trying to remember and trying to forget, in this perpetual, downward spiraling cycle of trying to solve a puzzle or settle some issue, but yet I just can't effing move past it sometimes. I get stuck in bad Si. It's terrible, the worse mental and emotional phrase for me.

    2) I enjoy making lists, researching and planning. I very often don't follow through with these plans but just writing it down and putting order to my thoughts and what I need to accomplish soothes me. I work best if I have a list of tasks and goals. Otherwise I feel that everything is just overwhelming and impossible to accomplish. The process of planning is soothing.

    3) I get along with Si dominants much better than Te dominants. Te doms are intimating while I can coach Si doms to move on from the past and see possibilities in the future. I never feel that I can offer Te doms anything useful.

    4) I am energized by interaction but only if they are interesting, low-key conversations with people I love/care for. If it's mostly a Se experience, I get tired out. If it's superficial and I feel uncomfortable, I get exhausted. If I have to watch what I say and how I act, it's tiresome. I can stay in bed all day some days but I am a total zombie the whole day. I get bursts of energy from positive interactions with people. I don't often initiate conversation with strangers but I am always eager to respond. And I respond really, really well. I love interaction when I am comfortable. The problem is I don't feel comfortable enough to always interact the way I'd like. I have too much anxiety and uncertainty.

    5) I feel healthiest and happiest when I am out of my head, when I stop over-thinking, when I join the external world. I can't be verbal and expressive with everyone, but I always want to. I always want to be involved in something bigger than myself.

    I don't know if I have worse Si or Te or which one is my relief function. I am close on the spectrum between infp and enfp and I am not positive which one I am. I have always thought I am introverted because of the stereotypical labels of quiet and low-energy, but I also had quite a few issues when I was young. As I am becoming healthier, I am becoming much more extroverted and it's making me a lot happier and healthier. So I wonder which is my natural state. I dislike being alone too much; it's not my natural state of being. I isolate myself when my anxiety gets to be too much, but I love constant interaction with friends.

  3. #123
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Does this sound more INFP or ENFP? Is this inferior Si or Te more like?

    1) I have absolutely the worse Si. I forget important moments in my life, important conversations, important details. Sometimes they just pop into my head and I am horrified that I'd forget words/actions of such importance. When I am in one of my bad days, I tend to get stuck in trying to remember and trying to forget, in this perpetual, downward spiraling cycle of trying to solve a puzzle or settle some issue, but yet I just can't effing move past it sometimes. I get stuck in bad Si. It's terrible, the worse mental and emotional phrase for me.

    2) I enjoy making lists, researching and planning. I very often don't follow through with these plans but just writing it down and putting order to my thoughts and what I need to accomplish soothes me. I work best if I have a list of tasks and goals. Otherwise I feel that everything is just overwhelming and impossible to accomplish. The process of planning is soothing.

    3) I get along with Si dominants much better than Te dominants. Te doms are intimating while I can coach Si doms to move on from the past and see possibilities in the future. I never feel that I can offer Te doms anything useful.

    4) I am energized by interaction but only if they are interesting, low-key conversations with people I love/care for. If it's mostly a Se experience, I get tired out. If it's superficial and I feel uncomfortable, I get exhausted. If I have to watch what I say and how I act, it's tiresome. I can stay in bed all day some days but I am a total zombie the whole day. I get bursts of energy from positive interactions with people. I don't often initiate conversation with strangers but I am always eager to respond. And I respond really, really well. I love interaction when I am comfortable. The problem is I don't feel comfortable enough to always interact the way I'd like. I have too much anxiety and uncertainty.

    5) I feel healthiest and happiest when I am out of my head, when I stop over-thinking, when I join the external world. I can't be verbal and expressive with everyone, but I always want to. I always want to be involved in something bigger than myself.

    I don't know if I have worse Si or Te or which one is my relief function. I am close on the spectrum between infp and enfp and I am not positive which one I am. I have always thought I am introverted because of the stereotypical labels of quiet and low-energy, but I also had quite a few issues when I was young. As I am becoming healthier, I am becoming much more extroverted and it's making me a lot happier and healthier. So I wonder which is my natural state. I dislike being alone too much; it's not my natural state of being. I isolate myself when my anxiety gets to be too much, but I love constant interaction with friends.
    actually, most Te doms (both ENTJs and ESTJs) are much more open than people give them credit for. they just have an "I'm busy don't waste my time" vibe to them that offputs a lot of people. if you can offer them some form of practical information, most Te doms will be quite greatful and usually immediately make plans to implement the information you've given them. that being said, you have to be a pretty confident person to be close friends with an ENTJ or ESTJ, but I feel like it's worth it
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  4. #124
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Does this sound more INFP or ENFP? Is this inferior Si or Te more like?

    1) I have absolutely the worse Si. I forget important moments in my life, important conversations, important details. Sometimes they just pop into my head and I am horrified that I'd forget words/actions of such importance. When I am in one of my bad days, I tend to get stuck in trying to remember and trying to forget, in this perpetual, downward spiraling cycle of trying to solve a puzzle or settle some issue, but yet I just can't effing move past it sometimes. I get stuck in bad Si. It's terrible, the worse mental and emotional phrase for me.

    2) I enjoy making lists, researching and planning. I very often don't follow through with these plans but just writing it down and putting order to my thoughts and what I need to accomplish soothes me. I work best if I have a list of tasks and goals. Otherwise I feel that everything is just overwhelming and impossible to accomplish. The process of planning is soothing.

    3) I get along with Si dominants much better than Te dominants. Te doms are intimating while I can coach Si doms to move on from the past and see possibilities in the future. I never feel that I can offer Te doms anything useful.

    4) I am energized by interaction but only if they are interesting, low-key conversations with people I love/care for. If it's mostly a Se experience, I get tired out. If it's superficial and I feel uncomfortable, I get exhausted. If I have to watch what I say and how I act, it's tiresome. I can stay in bed all day some days but I am a total zombie the whole day. I get bursts of energy from positive interactions with people. I don't often initiate conversation with strangers but I am always eager to respond. And I respond really, really well. I love interaction when I am comfortable. The problem is I don't feel comfortable enough to always interact the way I'd like. I have too much anxiety and uncertainty.

    5) I feel healthiest and happiest when I am out of my head, when I stop over-thinking, when I join the external world. I can't be verbal and expressive with everyone, but I always want to. I always want to be involved in something bigger than myself.

    I don't know if I have worse Si or Te or which one is my relief function. I am close on the spectrum between infp and enfp and I am not positive which one I am. I have always thought I am introverted because of the stereotypical labels of quiet and low-energy, but I also had quite a few issues when I was young. As I am becoming healthier, I am becoming much more extroverted and it's making me a lot happier and healthier. So I wonder which is my natural state. I dislike being alone too much; it's not my natural state of being. I isolate myself when my anxiety gets to be too much, but I love constant interaction with friends.
    Honestly, I relate to quite a few of these things. Lists (though I may not ever complete them) do make me feel a bit better, and I have a terrible, wretched memory of old conversations and even events. I've been digging in deeply with Jungs work on how tertiary and inferior functions work, and came across some interesting info.. it's alot, so I'm going to include the link below.. but look at these examples specifically, by Naomi L. Quenk.

    "Because the tertiary and inferior functions are both relatively unconscious, engagement of either one may constellate the other. If the INFP is in the grip of inferior Thinking, accusing himself of all manner of incompetencies, his weak tertiary Sensing can easily "prove" that even the most minor and routine activity or the simplest directions are beyond his ability. Alternatively (assuming the necessary preconditions), failure of difficulty in performing a Sensing task may quikcly lead him to generalize his incomptence to all arenas, not just the present task."

    "Similarly, An ENFP's inferior Sensing may emerge as obsessiveness about something someone said to her at work, but if it is combined with her tertiary Thinking, it might cause her to reach illogical conclusion that she will therefor not receive a desired promotion."

    Edit: Unable to post the link. Look at 'Was that really me?: how everyday stress brings out our hidden personality' by Naomi L. Quenk, pg 36 on.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #125
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    Huxley and Rebe. Very interesting. I can see how my inferior Si and Te works in the same way in my work life. If I'm using Ne or Fi, I feel that I can do anything. It's exciting and stimulating to discuss possibilities, ideas, not caring if I may be off the mark but just enjoying the conversation or activity. But I get depressed and discouraged if I have to do a task requiring Si or Se or too much Te. Exhausting. A collegue who is Te dominant stopped by to talk the other day and I had to force myself to listen as a long train of factual or logical discussion bores me and my mind starts to wander. It's true for me that if I have an Si task, I feel that my lack of skill at accomplishing it means I have a similar lack in all other things, which isn't true, but if feels that way.

  6. #126
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I just posted this in a Fi thread, but I found this quote very informative & clear about a major difference in the general mindsets of ENFPs and INFPs. Contrary to what people might assume based on function order, with ENFPs being N-dom and INFPs being F-dom, ENFPs are more people-oriented because their Fi is in support of an extroverted function, Ne, which is concerned with the external world, exploring it & its connections & creating new ones. However, an INFP's Ne is in service of Fi, meaning its focus is to find/invent external concepts/connections which help give form to feelings outside of the self, to form concepts on "the human condition" as opposed to simply knowing themselves. So INFPs are more idea/concept-oriented, which makes sense, being that we are introverts who are energized by our own thoughts far more than interaction.



    Also, in regards to that last point I touched on, all people will get tired from interaction at some point. Every human needs rest, time alone, etc. The difference is where your threshold is at. An INFP will have a much lower threshold for becoming tired from interaction/external stimuli, and a much higher one for staying focused/entertained by their own thoughts (they won't get bored or start brooding so quickly). An ENFP has a higher threshold for stimuli/interaction, so they can endure more, but they may also get bored more quickly or find themselves depressed when alone with their own thoughts too much. At some point though, an ENFP will need time alone & an INFP will want company. It's a matter of figuring out where your threshold is & which you tend to tire of faster, which for many may seem quite balanced without close inspection (as most are not extreme E/I).

    I typed this up for another forum, and it's 100% observational, but it still might prove useful.
    OrangeAppled, this post is truly exceptional. I think you're dead on accurate. Thanks for sharing.
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  7. #127
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Does this sound more INFP or ENFP? Is this inferior Si or Te more like?

    1) I have absolutely the worse Si. I forget important moments in my life, important conversations, important details. Sometimes they just pop into my head and I am horrified that I'd forget words/actions of such importance. When I am in one of my bad days, I tend to get stuck in trying to remember and trying to forget, in this perpetual, downward spiraling cycle of trying to solve a puzzle or settle some issue, but yet I just can't effing move past it sometimes. I get stuck in bad Si. It's terrible, the worse mental and emotional phrase for me.

    2) I enjoy making lists, researching and planning. I very often don't follow through with these plans but just writing it down and putting order to my thoughts and what I need to accomplish soothes me. I work best if I have a list of tasks and goals. Otherwise I feel that everything is just overwhelming and impossible to accomplish. The process of planning is soothing.

    3) I get along with Si dominants much better than Te dominants. Te doms are intimating while I can coach Si doms to move on from the past and see possibilities in the future. I never feel that I can offer Te doms anything useful.

    4) I am energized by interaction but only if they are interesting, low-key conversations with people I love/care for. If it's mostly a Se experience, I get tired out. If it's superficial and I feel uncomfortable, I get exhausted. If I have to watch what I say and how I act, it's tiresome. I can stay in bed all day some days but I am a total zombie the whole day. I get bursts of energy from positive interactions with people. I don't often initiate conversation with strangers but I am always eager to respond. And I respond really, really well. I love interaction when I am comfortable. The problem is I don't feel comfortable enough to always interact the way I'd like. I have too much anxiety and uncertainty.

    5) I feel healthiest and happiest when I am out of my head, when I stop over-thinking, when I join the external world. I can't be verbal and expressive with everyone, but I always want to. I always want to be involved in something bigger than myself.

    I don't know if I have worse Si or Te or which one is my relief function. I am close on the spectrum between infp and enfp and I am not positive which one I am. I have always thought I am introverted because of the stereotypical labels of quiet and low-energy, but I also had quite a few issues when I was young. As I am becoming healthier, I am becoming much more extroverted and it's making me a lot happier and healthier. So I wonder which is my natural state. I dislike being alone too much; it's not my natural state of being. I isolate myself when my anxiety gets to be too much, but I love constant interaction with friends.
    hey rebe idk if you'd remember me but you posted a lot when i first joined, maybe you've been elsewhere in the forums but i haven't seen you lately, i'm glad you're back here

    anyway - i don't know if maybe we're just similar in terms of life circumstances, but i relate to most of your bullet points (just not 3... i don't think i know enough Si doms and Te doms to be able to judge that well), and have also had the experience of becoming more extraverted as i am healthier. i don't tend to initiate much either but i definitely respond warmly.

    i don't know if it'd be helpful for comparison, but i get energized the most in small group settings with a few friends, or in a small group within a larger crowd. just being in a big crowd alone wears me out, and having to be really attentive to my speech/habits really wears me out too. in-depth conversation is the best for engagement with me. i really really like hanging out and talking with others. dancing is fun but tiring, big parties, same, shopping, same. conversation i could probably go on with forever though, given the right people.

  8. #128
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    Hi I am new to this forum and I just wanted to add my thoughts about what the differences between INFP and ENFP are. I am a very strong, mature female INFP and I have two prominant ENFPs in my life : a female ENFP I've known since I was 8 and a male ENFP that I have some romantic interest in.

    Both ENFPs have what I call "presence". They are natural motivators and have a lot of charisma. People are drawn to them and they are usually very careful to make sure that everyone gets the emotional support that they need but that it doesn't appear that any one person "stands out". That doesn't mean certain people aren't more meaningful to them but they don't want it to appear that way to others. It's sort of a "everyones a winner" mentality that they want to project to the world. They make excellent motivational speakers. I, as INFP, do not have the presence. I mean people like me and one on one, I can really win someone over, but I can't sway whole groups, you know. And I tend to be overlooked in many situations. I can never imagine an ENFP being overlooked. They are too bold.

    One problem area between an ENFP and an INFP comes from this. We both can see through people and see the motivations behind what people are feeling. ENFPs, I would say, are even better than I am at this. So let's say and INFP and an ENFP meet. The ENFP can pick up immediately on what an INFP is feeling and more importantly, can say something like "you feel X, let's talk about it". The INFP has a really hard time articulating feelings even though we feel very deeply, ENFPs have no problem expressing their feelings. So anyway, the INFP then feels validated and awesome that someone gets them and sees THEM. Then the ENFP has a really great conversation with you and the INFP feels special.....until an hour later when they see the ENFP doing the same exact thing with someone else. Instead of just asking the ENFP "hey how do you feel about me", the INFP usually goes into passive agressive mode, which annoys the ENFP. There is major disconnect there.

    This was always a problem with my female ENFP especially when we were less mature in high school. She could always pick up on my feelings and she ALWAYS asked about me when it seemed like noone cared and we'd have all these brioliant one on one talks. But then shd'd flit off to a big social group and seem to forget about me. She was never a mean girl but I couldn't understand why she couldn't just hang out with me especially if the people she was hanging with were not my type.

    This almost pyshic empath thing is also what I love about ENFPs. I have it too, but like I said, I may just think "oh Karen did x because she felt z and this xyz thing made her do the thing she did and therefore she feels depressed/angry/leftout whatever. An ENFP wouldnt just think it, they would call Karen up and say "Hey I know you must feel depressed because x happened lets talk it out"

  9. #129
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    schminken1974,

    Thanks for your informative post. I only know a few ENFPs briefly from afar but I know what you mean by a strong presence. People who know me usually loves me but most people find me a little awkward (sometimes a lot awkward).

    I have an especially hard time expressing feelings. I express some feelings, but there are a lot of darker thoughts I keep to myself. To others, I keep up a persona of bubbly-ness and optimism even though I know myself to be a much darker and melancholic person. That's why I am sort of confused by the energy stimulation part of introversion vs extroversion. I definitely get energy from others, but just very particular others. I am extremely reactive to my external environment.

    For me, personally, many of my traits are a result of years of depressive tendencies so it's hard to say what is at the core of myself.

    I like to keep to myself sometimes and maintain a certain quiet dignity though. I don't wish to lead large groups of people. I enjoy taking care of people one-on-one and taking care of myself, but I don't have the desire to motivate huge groups. The thought is unnatural for me. So perhaps that does determine that I am INFP. My instinct variant is Social, however, so my thinking is broad and involves institutions and social status more than the average INFP would care for, I suppose.


    skylights,

    I do remember you and I always enjoy your posts.

    i don't know if it'd be helpful for comparison, but i get energized the most in small group settings with a few friends, or in a small group within a larger crowd. just being in a big crowd alone wears me out, and having to be really attentive to my speech/habits really wears me out too. in-depth conversation is the best for engagement with me. i really really like hanging out and talking with others. dancing is fun but tiring, big parties, same, shopping, same. conversation i could probably go on with forever though, given the right people.
    i totally agree. maybe this is our dom/aux Fi talking. we don't like to conform ourselves in order to fit in and when alone in a group of strangers, we feel the pressure to act differently.

    i don't like to be the center of attention in small groups either. i like to sit back and observe sometimes and talk other times, but i don't like to talk all the time and be responsible for making everyone comfortable. when i was at college, i had three very close friends who weren't particularly close to each other. so when i put two of them together, i am naturally sort of in the center because i am close to both but the two are not close to each other. but my isfj friend or my extra talkative friend takes the center stage, but my presence is still important to the group dynamic. i like being important, but not center stage all the time.

    i think perhaps another important distinction is how much you open up to others. i open up to another person as much as they open up to me. so it's a very tight give and take interaction for me. i am very cautious and reserved with most people. i treat others exactly as they treat me. enfps are probably more open and initiative and does not wait for the green light to advance further as closely as I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schminken1974 View Post
    One problem area between an ENFP and an INFP comes from this. We both can see through people and see the motivations behind what people are feeling. ENFPs, I would say, are even better than I am at this. So let's say and INFP and an ENFP meet. The ENFP can pick up immediately on what an INFP is feeling and more importantly, can say something like "you feel X, let's talk about it". The INFP has a really hard time articulating feelings even though we feel very deeply, ENFPs have no problem expressing their feelings. So anyway, the INFP then feels validated and awesome that someone gets them and sees THEM. Then the ENFP has a really great conversation with you and the INFP feels special.....until an hour later when they see the ENFP doing the same exact thing with someone else. Instead of just asking the ENFP "hey how do you feel about me", the INFP usually goes into passive agressive mode, which annoys the ENFP. There is major disconnect there.
    To me that seems like the problem is with the INFP. The point is, whether or not the ENFP will have the same type of conversations with many people, that should not make the INFP-ENFP conversation lose value. For the INFP it might be a rare chance to talk about things like that because we are usually not the type of people who make a lot of noise about our feelings. So, the fact that there is the ENFP to prod about it is good. Right? So what if the ENFP does this with more than just a special inner circle?

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