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  1. #21
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Fi to me has a yin/yang quality to it
    the yin: sweet, mellow, reflective, accepting, comforting
    the yang: fiery, intense, convicted, heroic
    Fi can range from a warm glow to a white flame that incinerates anything in it's path
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  2. #22
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Hmmm.... Orobas, I think you pose an interesting question about Fi. I've spent a few minutes thinking about it. I've never really examined my process before. So here's my first run at an answer:

    My Fi is alway looking for a deeper truth about people. Whatever they say, whatever they do is only a clue for understanding their essence. For example, I may be talking to someone and paying attention to what they do and say. But in the background I'm running a color commentary... or maybe it's more like I'm trying to solve a puzzle. The puzzle pieces are my observations about their behavior. But putting the puzzle together means that I figure out what makes that person tick. That I understand their motivations that make them do or say X, Y, and Z.

    Fi is people focused. This may seem obvious, but I think it's important to point out that even in situations in which the conversation is about non-people things, I'm always thinking about the effect on people. For example, I might be talking about the 2008 economic crisis including credit swaps and other financial instruments. My Fi then takes this information and runs it against what I know about what makes people tick. I might comment on how bad US financial policy was in the interest of people working on Wall Street.

    Orobas, can you explain your own observations about how your Fi takes in information?
    It has taken me a few years of watching my Fi to figure this one out.

    1) Each person I see is observed as a thing of beauty, a piece of magic. Their eyes, their face, everything about them is treated as unique of of value, a thing to be savored and treasured for the inner beauty they contain. So when I see them, if I allow it to happen, just by watching them I am filled with wonder and bliss at the beauty humanity can represent, at how each of us, being such a small piece of humanity, contains so much complexity-each individual can never be repeated-they are unique, totally alone, yet totally connected as part fo a greater continuum. The Fi I assume, is the preference for observations of individuality and the inner feelings evoked when I see them. Almost all of this is nonverbal-it is facial gestures, postures, subtle eye movements. Even in words, it is the way the words are spoken, not what they say that gets registered.

    For people I see repeatedly, the image above becomes part of a database on that person. Each time I see them, I register if they are consistent with what they were before, and if not subtle edits are made. Eventually, after about two weeks of observation, I have a reasonable working model that I can use for long term comparisons, all unconscious though.

    2) The long term model then becomes the standard of comparison. When I see them, if they differ drastically from the "norm", that is when I feel "wrong" as you noted above, but more accurately it is "incongrueant", rather than "wrong"-This will prompt an inqueiry, either in my own mind, via thought, or verbally to the other person to try and understand why they are "different". I suspect this long term model is a facsimile of the other person built into my FiSi. I note very, very subtle diffs, so had to learn that mostly you ignore this stuff or you look for changes of longer duration before acting-thus quelling the Ne paranoia. Comparisons against this standard model also allow for second by second analysis of the other person and an adaptation to their needs on my part-if I register discomfort, by a little eyebrow wrinkle, I spontaneously remold around that need for comfort.

    This renders me in the category of a "highly sensitive person" for better or worse.

    3) There is a distinct internal mirroring of the other person. Orangeappled described the other person as a separate little facsimile person. For me, I think I associate that little person with myself, they are not separate-thus not only can I observe the reaction of the other-I strongly feel that reaction myself. I can wind this forward in time and calculate the results of my actions upon the other person. Thus anything I do that may hurt another person, I will feel myself, once I understand it hurts them. This severely restricts my ability to hurt others and if I see others being hurt by another, I feel a massive upwelling of fierce, focused, kickass Te/Fi to stand up for the other person and to fight for them, even to my own detriment.

    To be excluded from this, I must hate another person, then I can be very mean to them, because I no longer have to bear their pain.

    Also- as you mentioned regarding the credit issues-I can do this same sort of play-forward implementation of an idea (like a departmental reorg or a change in loan rates) and then identify how well it will work by "feeling" the pain points of the people (specific or general) involved in the idea. This deteremines if the idea is good or not-the idea has to meet Te metrics to be considered, but it must minimize the Fi people pain to be implemented.

    4) I feel the same internal emotive feelings for weird stuff too-science, numbers, the ocean, beautiful plants, pets. I am more open to allowing myself to feel these things honestly, as it is less dangerous. My dog will not knowingly emotionally scar me, another person will. But I kinda get the notion of aesthetic Fi that the INFPs discuss.

    My Fi values, are a bit unique I suspect. I wonder if this is part of what leads to the 4w5 mindset-I already am hypersensitive to the uniqueness of others due to Fi, thus my own uniqueness seems magnified ten fold over, due to my sensitivity for uniqueness I was reading "Sons and Lovers" and one of the characters noted being exceedingly aware of subtle signs of social snubbing.

    Things like authenticity, freedom of speech, responsibility, honor, integrity, not lying, doing what you say you'll do, not knowingly hurting another, self awareness, all trump social harmony in the moment

  3. #23
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    Fi to me is the chain that keeps me angel, without it I would be stuck in angelus mode.

  4. #24
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    Seriously, Fi is like the strength behind my moral convictions. I've got a lot of values which I'm working on weeding out, if they're nonsense. Fi doesn't need me to extrovert those values but it insists I personally live by them. Most recently, I've been looking into Bushido. It's a fascinating code and one that appeals to Fi.

  5. #25
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    I want to add here - as I believe this may be relevant to this thread, though it doesn't directly answer the OP - that Fi development is crucial for ENFPs, because it would be the only thing that really grounds us in a healthy balance. I believe an ENFP who neglects their Fi might become lost or not feel peace within themselves, always looking outward.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Fi to me has a yin/yang quality to it
    the yin: sweet, mellow, reflective, accepting, comforting
    the yang: fiery, intense, convicted, heroic
    Fi can range from a warm glow to a white flame that incinerates anything in it's path

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Seriously, Fi is like the strength behind my moral convictions. I've got a lot of values which I'm working on weeding out, if they're nonsense. Fi doesn't need me to extrovert those values but it insists I personally live by them. Most recently, I've been looking into Bushido. It's a fascinating code and one that appeals to Fi.
    I find both of these posts really interesting, as I have been studying Taoism because it appeals to my current Fi development. It does not insist that I follow an organized religion, and stresses that people become unhappy when they try to be what they are not, or try to perform tasks that are not their strengths, that one should not try to change oneself entirely, but rather turn one's flaws into traits that could actually be helpful rather than harmful; it requires both listening to the voice within and listening to nature, living in balance with other living things in compassion, humility, and frugality.

    It has a lot of stress-relieving techniques (breathing properly, for example) and instructs a person to fight fire with water rather than with fire, and to practice wu wei...which literally means "not doing"...but it doesn't mean people should literally do nothing, but to to do things in a proper balance, rather than forcing.

    I think it matches a lot of my inherent Fi beliefs anyway, and is a philosophical way to grow and be mindful.

  7. #27
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I want to add here - as I believe this may be relevant to this thread, though it doesn't directly answer the OP - that Fi development is crucial for ENFPs, because it would be the only thing that really grounds us in a healthy balance. I believe an ENFP who neglects their Fi might become lost or not feel peace within themselves, always looking outward.
    But what does this mean, this development of Fi? I hear people say it all of the time, but I'd love to hear you guys thoughts of what it is to neglect/not neglect Fi.

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    yeah... i don't know... horse metaphor again... learning to ride with it? like you can try to tame it but that's not right, then it loses its spunk, you need its spunk. you need the burning fire to keep everything warm. taming the horse would stifle its wildness and beauty and passion. but setting it free isn't right either, you can't let it have control over you... that's bad too, it's harmful both to yourself and to it... it can lose itself in self-destructive fury... i think some kind of aware symbiosis...

  9. #29
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It's a cliche but Fi is what *feels* right.

    It's what makes you go:Mmm..this outfit needs...*something*. It's lacking something to be *just* right. Then, when you add that splash of colour in the exact right spot, you can feel yourself going: 'ahhh..perfect!'.

    In more complicated situations, it's like a car accident. One problem in a situation that makes the situation off is often not that hard to track down and rectify...just as it's usually not that hard to figure out how the car crash came about. But when the icey roads come together with a misty fog, topped off with full blast raining cats and dogs, people tend to back into each other and cause a chain reaction..And try figuring out then where and how it all began

    Head ache ensues.

    As an ENFP I often use it in this way:

    Ne: I pick up on a pattern I find interesting in for instance other people.
    Fi: I decide if it *feels* right
    Ne: compares it to other situations I've noticed similar patterns in and cross references it against other situations what weren't as clear Fi-wise or that were crystal clear Fi-wise.

    I copy paste the situation that is crystal clear into the situation that is muddled, Fi-wise..the situation that somehow just can't seem to work, like a puzzle that won't make sense. And I use it to ID the pieces in Fi that I might've not seen were there, or hadn't considered in that way before.

    I then take the situation and generalize it, and store it as a Fi-experiment. After it's been thoroughly tested against even more situations, it becomes a part of the Fi manual guide to life.

    I also tend to self-reflect a lot on abstract values I have and retest them in other fields I've recently discovered to see if they're still up to code..if they need finetuning, if my grayscale is still balanced and precise enough.

    It can drive me crazy when something doesn't *feel* right and I cannot put my finger on it, and all the stuff that I've encountered doesn't seem to match up. It comes up as a ???? in the Fi-computer basically. And, ignoring it and going along with the situation anyways is a guaranteed failure, ime. Procrastinating and leaving it to 'come to you' isn't always feasible and pisses others off. This is one of the things that INTJs tend to roll their eyes at us for, and ENTJs evne more so. They present you a solution on the problem and get pissy that the solution isn't used by you...but something doesn't *feel* right and you are somehow unable to use their solution which works brillianlty for yourself in a similar situation. Often their advice holds a valuable key however to figuring out your *own* solution, but it's mindboggling at time and highly *HIGHLY* unpractical irl
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    But what does this mean, this development of Fi? I hear people say it all of the time, but I'd love to hear you guys thoughts of what it is to neglect/not neglect Fi.
    I think people who neglect their Fi may try to repress their empathy for the sake of trying to conform to externally measurable logic (Te) at their own peril. I think people with completely undeveloped Fi are blindly selfish rather than rationally ethical. I think in order to mature in Fi a person must do internal reflection and consider ethics in a more rational fashion....there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do this, but I believe that it's crucial.

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