[MBTI General] People Who Don't Realize You're Empathizing

[Glycerine]

I don't think taking an interest in the interests of others is BS-ing. It's being polite and friendly. I think a bit of that is better than the other person mentioning what they're interested in and you saying "yeah, that doesn't interest me at all. So how about that Bolivian clog dancing?"

If you say "oh, that must be interesting, although I have to admit it's never interested me that much", it should be reasonably clear. And still polite.

I have been in similar situations as the OP but I don't think one should expect others to know the intent of politeness. I usually deal with it or change the topic.

 

[raminda]

Also, what you do first is what their whole picture of you will be built from, and in the beggining of talking to someone people actually listen to what you say (if only for a short while), so if you then say "Oh, I have seen one or two french films too, but I have to admit I'm not overly savvy" they'll probably remember it. Maybe.

 

[BAJ]

What I see here is that someone with higher emotional intelligence is interacting with someone with lesser interpersonal intelligence. I'd say my INTRApersonal intelligence is very high, but my interpersonal intelligence can be a bit weak.

What I used to do is have a vision of what my "ideal" person was. This is like the Shel Silverstein books: "The Missing Piece" and the "The Missing Piece Meets the big O". I'd be like, "Oh, wow, I met that person I idealized about." I'd think we were meant for each other!

Wrong!

It means that you are socially skilled. You could manipulate the other person. You could reveal you true self to the person instead of "who they want you to be", and send that person on a spiritual awakening. You could use it to sell them things. You could just withdraw from the person because they "just don't get it."

So you have social skill. Now what?

 

[Rasofy]

 

[Gloriana]

Tweaking certain things is counter-intuitive to me, because it's just part of my communication style. I can't predict who is going to react this way (and I'm not claiming all people do, I just meant I get it a lot) and I honestly don't feel I blow smoke up their asses. If they bring up a subject I have absolutely no knowledge on or interest in, I say as much but I'm still open to hearing them talk about it because I genuinely like hearing people/watching people talk about the things they like.

Usually, though, I know at least something about their topic of conversation and I'll mention what I do know about. I have no idea how they're going to take this information. I experimented a little at some parties where I would just listen and not mention crap about what I knew, but that felt stupid to me in the end. I didn't want to refrain from contributing to the conversation just because I was unsure if this person might do that 'latch on' thing. I've gone through this so many times that, like I said, I try to choose my words carefully.

I think it's kind of true that people, on the whole, just don't listen to each other. I see this for myself when I hear the conversations of others. They step on one another, they ignore what the person is talking about just to talk about themselves, and they invalidate each other a lot (not saying this is done consciously or maliciously). I admit I used to be the one who would listen and validate people because I wanted approval/friends so badly, but I've grown out of that. I try to bring balance into the situation by talking about myself and my own likes/dislikes/opinions, but so often it seems people are so used to being ignored that they just have this massive reaction to anyone who actually validates and shows they are listening to what they're saying.

If it makes me feel awkward for any reason, it's because I don'twant to come off like I'm misrepresenting myself but when people hear what they want to hear, it can be difficult.

I know this is probably one of those points that makes people like me come off very deliberate and calculating, but I think that's a misunderstanding. Same thing on the point of manipulation. In all honesty, I know very well and have always known I have the ability to manipulate people with the amount of information they unknowingly give me. I had an experience with this when I was around six years old.

A friend had this She-Ra doll (it was actually a Sorceress doll with wings that moved) and I wanted it really badly. I had just gotten this little plastic purse from my aunt who had gone traveling, it was a souvenir from Antigua or Mexico. It was just a generic thing, filled with little toys and puzzles. I knew it was not the same value as this doll, but I started talking to her like it was MORE valuable. I exaggerated its worth, made it seem like it was special because it was from another country, etc. I did all of this and more, until she was begging ME to trade with her. And I did.

I have never forgotten that, because I remember I got this doll home and I couldn't even play with it, I felt so incredibly guilty and horrible for what I'd done. To this day, I still feel shame because of it, even though I was just a child at the time. This stuck with me though, and though I am still very aware I have the ability to manipulate, it has become set in stone in terms of my personal code of ethics not to. Hence, when I'm accused of being manipulative, I can get really upset because of how utterly conscientious of that particular topic I am.

On the other hand, I can see where people who are like me can come off as manipulative, calculating, deliberate. In regards to the deliberateness, I'm not sure I can argue that because I can be. I don't think this automatically translates as disingenuous though, I don't think that is fair. I think a lot, I'm constantly thinking, I'm constantly aware. That's just how I am.

I've spent many hours wishing I wasn't, because I see so many people so much more at ease with socializing than I am and I've been envious of how little it exhausts them. I spent a lot of time wanting to be that way and trying to make myself that way. But I'm not. I'm simply not that way. I pick up on social dynamics, I gain a lot of information through body language and timbre, I discover a lot of subtext in what someone tells me and which words they choose. I truly do like the fact I can understand things about people that perhaps constantly go unnoticed by others most of the time. I am not good at approaching conversations in that "small talk just to make small talk' way and I never will be. If I talk to someone, I don't expect them to become a really good friend of mine and I'm no longer the sort of person who is disappointed if they don't (I was when I was younger, but not anymore), but if that's not at least a possibility, I don't see the point talking to anyone at a party. It's why I suck at networking. Talking to someone who is a member of the chamber of commerce just to see if I can get a connection to find work? That shit seems wrong to me. Talking to the Belle of the Ball or Mr. Popular just to be seen talking to them? Again, when it comes to my own personal inner compass, that seems pointless. I approach conversations to potentially make a friend, and hence I listen, and if I know something about what they're talking about, I will bring it into the conversation.

In situations where people latch-on to something I've said and become convinced I feel the exact same way, it's just friggin' awkward sometimes. Again, my aim with this thread was not asking for advice, like I said, I handle this stuff okay and I do endeavor to toss qualifiers in there and talk about myself as well. It was meant to be anecdotal really, in a "You ever find yourself in that situation too?" way. In some cases, yeah, I get irritated because it seems to be a case of someone so wholly into themselves, they see others as just extensions of what ever they like, think, are into, etc. In some cases, I think it's people who are so ignored and invalidated, it's just exciting when someone shows they understand (and why wouldn't it be?).

 

[Gloriana]

I think a good idea would be talking about yourself more and them less. Instead of saying "Yeah, for you I bet it feels like you saw this life changing movie and it sucks not being able to share that." you could say "Yeah, I know what you're talking about, I'm the same with Japanese Literature, I read some wonderful book and then I have no one to share that experience with" (or whatever you're interested in). This shows that you can emphatize with the feeling but don't share the interest. Maybe?

I've tried the diverting thing, but not quite in that way. I'm making a mental note of that.

 

[iwakar]

I wouldn't call that empathizing to be honest. That's just bsing and making the person believe something false.

I agree with this stance too.

If you aren't actually interested in the topic, or only like one or two things pertaining to the topic and you don't clarify. Yes it is.

And at what point do you hold the other party in the conversation accountable for absorbing select pieces of the discussion? ...Or don't you at all?

 

[BAJ]

Tweaking certain things is counter-intuitive to me, because it's just part of my communication style. I can't predict who is going to react this way (and I'm not claiming all people do, I just meant I get it a lot) and I honestly don't feel I blow smoke up their asses. If they bring up a subject I have absolutely no knowledge on or interest in, I say as much but I'm still open to hearing them talk about it because I genuinely like hearing people/watching people talk about the things they like.

Usually, though, I know at least something about their topic of conversation and I'll mention what I do know about. I have no idea how they're going to take this information. I experimented a little at some parties where I would just listen and not mention crap about what I knew, but that felt stupid to me in the end. I didn't want to refrain from contributing to the conversation just because I was unsure if this person might do that 'latch on' thing. I've gone through this so many times that, like I said, I try to choose my words carefully.

I think it's kind of true that people, on the whole, just don't listen to each other. I see this for myself when I hear the conversations of others. They step on one another, they ignore what the person is talking about just to talk about themselves, and they invalidate each other a lot (not saying this is done consciously or maliciously). I admit I used to be the one who would listen and validate people because I wanted approval/friends so badly, but I've grown out of that. I try to bring balance into the situation by talking about myself and my own likes/dislikes/opinions, but so often it seems people are so used to being ignored that they just have this massive reaction to anyone who actually validates and shows they are listening to what they're saying.

If it makes me feel awkward for any reason, it's because I don'twant to come off like I'm misrepresenting myself but when people hear what they want to hear, it can be difficult.

I know this is probably one of those points that makes people like me come off very deliberate and calculating, but I think that's a misunderstanding. Same thing on the point of manipulation. In all honesty, I know very well and have always known I have the ability to manipulate people with the amount of information they unknowingly give me. I had an experience with this when I was around six years old.

A friend had this She-Ra doll (it was actually a Sorceress doll with wings that moved) and I wanted it really badly. I had just gotten this little plastic purse from my aunt who had gone traveling, it was a souvenir from Antigua or Mexico. It was just a generic thing, filled with little toys and puzzles. I knew it was not the same value as this doll, but I started talking to her like it was MORE valuable. I exaggerated its worth, made it seem like it was special because it was from another country, etc. I did all of this and more, until she was begging ME to trade with her. And I did.

I have never forgotten that, because I remember I got this doll home and I couldn't even play with it, I felt so incredibly guilty and horrible for what I'd done. To this day, I still feel shame because of it, even though I was just a child at the time. This stuck with me though, and though I am still very aware I have the ability to manipulate, it has become set in stone in terms of my personal code of ethics not to. Hence, when I'm accused of being manipulative, I can get really upset because of how utterly conscientious of that particular topic I am.

On the other hand, I can see where people who are like me can come off as manipulative, calculating, deliberate. In regards to the deliberateness, I'm not sure I can argue that because I can be. I don't think this automatically translates as disingenuous though, I don't think that is fair. I think a lot, I'm constantly thinking, I'm constantly aware. That's just how I am.

I've spent many hours wishing I wasn't, because I see so many people so much more at ease with socializing than I am and I've been envious of how little it exhausts them. I spent a lot of time wanting to be that way and trying to make myself that way. But I'm not. I'm simply not that way. I pick up on social dynamics, I gain a lot of information through body language and timbre, I discover a lot of subtext in what someone tells me and which words they choose. I truly do like the fact I can understand things about people that perhaps constantly go unnoticed by others most of the time. I am not good at approaching conversations in that "small talk just to make small talk' way and I never will be. If I talk to someone, I don't expect them to become a really good friend of mine and I'm no longer the sort of person who is disappointed if they don't (I was when I was younger, but not anymore), but if that's not at least a possibility, I don't see the point talking to anyone at a party. It's why I suck at networking. Talking to someone who is a member of the chamber of commerce just to see if I can get a connection to find work? That shit seems wrong to me. Talking to the Belle of the Ball or Mr. Popular just to be seen talking to them? Again, when it comes to my own personal inner compass, that seems pointless. I approach conversations to potentially make a friend, and hence I listen, and if I know something about what they're talking about, I will bring it into the conversation.

In situations where people latch-on to something I've said and become convinced I feel the exact same way, it's just friggin' awkward sometimes. Again, my aim with this thread was not asking for advice, like I said, I handle this stuff okay and I do endeavor to toss qualifiers in there and talk about myself as well. It was meant to be anecdotal really, in a "You ever find yourself in that situation too?" way. In some cases, yeah, I get irritated because it seems to be a case of someone so wholly into themselves, they see others as just extensions of what ever they like, think, are into, etc. In some cases, I think it's people who are so ignored and invalidated, it's just exciting when someone shows they understand (and why wouldn't it be?).

Thanks for clarification...and more stories. I do like your writing style. You seem like cool person. I have my own powers as well.

And at what point do you hold the other party in the conversation accountable for absorbing select pieces of the discussion? ...Or don't you at all?

I'd say when it bothers you too much. If it doesn't bother you that they are being dense, the just don't worry about it. I'd probably qualify quickly, and they would know. I'd talk about something else. Or MYSELF. Which is not something from the "Win Friends and Influence People" department. I'd probably deflect as described above.

Our sales person has a joke. They just do the Penguin wave. "Just smile and wave boys. Just smile and wave." That is, if you are trying to sell them something, just keep smiling and waving. If you are not try to sell them anything (including yourself as prospectus) then I'd just qualify what I said quickly and move on.

 

[Eruca]

It would seem your ability to read the other's thoughts or feelings on a subject will naturally mislead the other. When you emphasize, you show an understanding of the other person, if this understanding is particularly accurate and "deep" the other person is prone to believing that you must share the thought in question, in order to justify how you know what you know.

Then again the French cinema example seems not to fit this explanation. Surely it is perfectly common for someone to understand another to such a depth?

Perhaps it is your greater need to emphasize with others. This could lead you to emphasize when most people would not, causing your conversation partner to identify common thoughts as the justification.

I doubt I put this very well.

 

[Southern Kross]

I get what you're talking about but its never happened to me.

I also have general knowledge of a wide range of subjects and do a similar thing when people start talking about a subject I vaguely know about. Sometimes you just want to show an interest in what someone is passionate about because you find their passion itself intriguing and infectious. But I guess I am more nervously conscious of the gaps in knowledge and the fact I'm not super passionate about their interest and feel the need to add many disclaimers to highlight this.

But you know, there are so many people that just want to talk to someone about their interests and will latch onto anyone who will listen.

 

[Anew Leaf]

@random NT drive bys: so cute.

@Gloriana: so very very true! Especially the part about how most people don't even listen to each other. I observe that most conversational interactions seem to revolve around taking turns to speak. It's the only way I can really explain the draw I have with people I don't even know telling me their life stories in the check out line at the supermarket.

 

[Winds of Thor]

People get sympathy from me quite often. I don't even notice that sympathizing is where I'm coming from half the time. And part of the time some get resentful towards me. I don't know if they are in a bad mood, don't want sympathy, don't believe that's the kind of guy I am..Who knows.

Just do your thing and don't worry about them. Would you feel wrong for being yourself?

 

[OrangeAppled]

This has never happened to me. I always start by saying something like, "I'm not a huge fan of ___, but I have seen ____, and I enjoyed it". I don't like to misrepresent myself. I'm more likely to downplay some knowledge or interest because of this.

My INFJ e3w4 ex had this problem, but I suspect there was some subconscious drive to leave people with an impression that he was more [fill in the blank] than he really was. It was a problem to the point that people were offended by him, feeling deceived. Honestly, I don't think their complaints were without warrant. It went beyond "empathizing" and seemed like manipulation to win favor with people & make himself look good. Of course, he always played the "victim" in these situations - so "misunderstood" .

For instance, when I first met him, we somehow got into a conversation where poetry was mentioned. I like & read a lot of poetry... the INFJ offers up that he likes Pablo Neruda a lot. I'm a big fan of Neruda. So come to find later he only knows ONE poem by Neruda, and he only knows that because he saw the movie "Il Postino" (which has Neruda in it as a character). Why not say that from the beginning? It really came off like he was trying to appear more...IDK, smarter, cultured, well-read, etc, than he was. The reality was he knew almost no poetry & rarely read anything at all because he preferred TV . This of course was a harmless attempt to impress a girl, but he'd do the same with much larger, more serious things.

I really think he picks up easily on what appeals to people & tries to be that when he feels some desire to impress them. It's a form of empathy, for sure, but not a noble kind. I can't say I was too surprised when he'd often not live up to the picture he'd paint of himself, because I pick up on posing in people rather easily, but I allowed it to not bother me, not seeing it as a red flag when it probably was.

 

[garbage]

My INFJ e3w4 ex had this problem, but I suspect there was some subconscious drive to leave people with an impression that he was more [fill in the blank] than he really was.
[...]
I really think he picks up easily on what appeals to people & tries to be that when he feels some desire to impress them. It's a form of empathy, for sure, but not a noble kind. I can't say I was too surprised when he'd often not live up to the picture he'd paint of himself, because I pick up on posing in people rather easily, but I allowed it to not bother me, not seeing it as a red flag when it probably was.

I've traditionally been guilty of the above--to some degree, at least.

With maturity, our true selves actually merge with that image that we project into the world. We realize that people can see through the crap, and we realize that projecting crap just isn't the right thing to do.

That said, it's difficult for me to not relate to virtually anyone on some level. Sometimes, it feels to me as though I'm 'spinning' my story, just slightly, even if it is absolutely true. I've done it consciously and subconsciously, both to 'impress' and/or to truly empathize and guide others, at various points in my life.

People come off with the impression that they have something in common with me; if someone has a story, then I can relate to it somehow--which is often true. But, hopefully, the extent to which we connect isn't exaggerated by some compulsive tendency of mine to try to find things in common.


In fact, there's a whole fat lot that I relate to in this thread. Such as,

I think it's kind of true that people, on the whole, just don't listen to each other. I see this for myself when I hear the conversations of others. They step on one another, they ignore what the person is talking about just to talk about themselves, and they invalidate each other a lot (not saying this is done consciously or maliciously). I admit I used to be the one who would listen and validate people because I wanted approval/friends so badly, but I've grown out of that. I try to bring balance into the situation by talking about myself and my own likes/dislikes/opinions, but so often it seems people are so used to being ignored that they just have this massive reaction to anyone who actually validates and shows they are listening to what they're saying.

It feels to me as though, sometimes, adequate communication is a lost art.