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  1. #21
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I remember an episode of the Simpsons where Homer had a stash of snack bars, and each snack bar was actually an entire meal condensed into one small bar. After assuring Marge he knew what he was doing, he ate a whole stack of them- then he got up, walked over to the phone and said, “Hello, 911?” into the receiver. That’s kind of what it feels like sometimes, which is why I suspect N has something to do with it- though I could be wrong. It’s like things unzip like compressed files as they enter my head, and it takes a lot of effort to articulate what occurs to me in an intelligible enough way to present it to other people. I’ve got an INFP friend with whom I share a joke about English being our second language- our first being a series of grunts and hand gestures, which doesn’t go over so well in the written medium of an online forum. I can generally only participate quickly in conversations that resemble past conversations I have previously ‘unzipped’ in my head (and therefore have already invested the time in figuring out how to articulate).
    Interesting. I totally feel the same way about English being a second language - I often feel like I'm translating from my alien native language. I knew that INFPs often feel like this (Fi+Ne will totally do this to you) but I didn't realise how much INFJs did. I suppose Ni without Te has a similar effect as Fi+Ne, in that it conceives thoughts in very primary manner, like pulling them out of thin air, with limited concrete or deductive reasoning involved - but you then have to ground the thoughts by using these very things for people to understand you. This would explain the 'translation' feeling.
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  2. #22
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Interesting. I totally feel the same way about English being a second language - I often feel like I'm translating from my alien native language. I knew that INFPs often feel like this (Fi+Ne will totally do this to you) but I didn't realise how much INFJs did. I suppose Ni without Te has a similar effect as Fi+Ne, in that it conceives thoughts in very primary manner, like pulling them out of thin air, with limited concrete or deductive reasoning involved - but you then have to ground the thoughts by using these very things for people to understand you. This would explain the 'translation' feeling.
    Oh, I can join this sub-thread! In high school, I spoke my own language. I described it as a "Language of emotion." It's more tonal, like Elvish. This was back in high school before I took the MBTI. I'd say I was from Zandor, and spoke Zandorian.

    You may never hear me speak...unless you sneaked up on me or hid microphones...or knew me very well.


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Interesting. I totally feel the same way about English being a second language - I often feel like I'm translating from my alien native language. I knew that INFPs often feel like this (Fi+Ne will totally do this to you) but I didn't realise how much INFJs did. I suppose Ni without Te has a similar effect as Fi+Ne, in that it conceives thoughts in very primary manner, like pulling them out of thin air, with limited concrete or deductive reasoning involved - but you then have to ground the thoughts by using these very things for people to understand you. This would explain the 'translation' feeling.
    This is kinda off-topic but whatever. :P

    My INFJ friend and I communicate in a series of words (often invented but they suit the description) and hand gestures and if we have paper and a pen, we'll scribble a little schematic to illustrate the idea. We both fail at drawing so usually, we give up and try to find suitable analogies/metaphors. Generally, however, we don't need to say much to illustrate an idea unless we really want to go into details. It's like we can read each other's minds.

    I find that when we are in a group and he's explaining something and someone doesn't understand, I am usually the one who has to do the translating. Or if he doesn't understand something, I am usually the one who has to interpret what others are saying for him.

    Is this common?

  4. #24
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Then when I do reply, nobody acknowledges my reply, so it feels like I made a thoughtful note, stuffed it into a bottle and threw it into the ocean.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kriash View Post
    I think I kind of have the same thing going on when I post. I think I've written something pretty decent, and it's just lost amongst all the other posts. I know it isn't personal, but sometimes I wonder why I bother.
    I’ve definitely had this feeling before. My personal favorite: when a post goes unacknowledged (which is fine, they can’t all be winners), then someone else posts practically the same thing in different words and several people respond. Sometimes I can tell how my point was maybe unclear, reading it in retrospect, but it’s still frustrating. [This isn’t a forum thing, this is something that happens to me irl regularly too, when I’m in groups of people. ]

    Anyway, about posts going unacknowledged, this is why I brought up building a rapport earlier. It seems like interacting more- even with smaller posts- does eventually pull in more responses. I think as someone’s username/avatar become more familiar to me, I get a better overall idea of where they’re coming from and it gets easier for me to respond to them. And I think this is the case for a lot of people, because the more someone posts- the more their posts get responded to.

    And with posts that fall by the wayside- I think this is what happens sometimes: there are often several convos going on within a single thread, with different groups of people. If I’m engaged in one of the convos, it’s become habit to me to gloss over posts and not pay much attention to the particular ones that don’t seem to especially apply to the tangent I’m involved in. Sometimes threads move really fast, and filtering some posts out is the only way to keep up. This is where the rapport comes in- if it’s someone who is usually interested in the same kind of tangents, I’m likely to give it more weight (and spend a bit longer figuring out how it applies to the tangent I’m interested in). So yeah, it isn’t personal, it’s just a matter of trying to keep up with a thread. Even in threads that aren’t moving fast, where there’s only one conversation going on- it’s still part of my forum autopilot (unfortunately). I guess my point is: don’t let it discourage you, I definitely felt that way at first myself (‘what’s the point?’), and continuing to make posts will make your presence more familiar to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Oh, I can join this sub-thread! In high school, I spoke my own language. I described it as a "Language of emotion." It's more tonal, like Elvish. This was back in high school before I took the MBTI. I'd say I was from Zandor, and spoke Zandorian.
    *grunts and gesticulates at you*

    Quote Originally Posted by thealchemist View Post
    I find that when we are in a group and he's explaining something and someone doesn't understand, I am usually the one who has to do the translating. Or if he doesn't understand something, I am usually the one who has to interpret what others are saying for him.

    Is this common?
    I don’t know how common it is, but I’ve fallen into this shtick with people myself.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  5. #25
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriash View Post
    I often find myself on here for hours, reading various posts so I, in turn, can post afterwards. But I find myself unable to say anything that already hasn't been said, so usually it results in 15 pages read, and moving on to a new thread.
    I have been on this site for over a year now, maybe even longer than that, I don't exactly remember. But my post count is still under 50.

    I wonder, is this the case with many other people? Or am I alone in lurking and rarely posting? Does it have anything to do with type? I would figure not, but still, I wonder if there is anything to it.
    Why do you feel uncomfortable posting? Do you think you'll receive negative feedback?...and maybe...that's why you read the pages of the topic, to reduce the chance of criticism. Or I don't know....

    You don't have to write something you know...you can always post a picture.

    I think that if you'll post some more, you'll start feeling more comfortable posting.

  6. #26
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I thought it's more like you guys are being so critical of the value of the input that you decide it's better to not say anything. I think that there's often value in even the slightest nudge into a direction that hasn't been explored in a thread. Someone can do this with a one-liner that wasn't even meant to be anyhow enlightening. Then someone else gets some sort of an association of that and we find ourselves in a brand new perspective.

    Of course, if people don't want to post, that's their business, but I'm just saying that if the reason is self-sensoring, people shouldn't worry about that. Every perspective counts.
    Yes this is all very true. I'll tend to post when I see the opportunity for a nudge. The trick is spotting a good nudge opportunity vs. just another me too post.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Eh.

    I have various similar issues.

    I've spent most of my time over at INTPc, where I managed to get over 1000 posts. Thus, the time I've been here versus posts does not completely reflect my activity here. However, I researched myself, and see that I averaged 0.09 posts per day.

    In the NF forum here, the thread balloons so fast with so many tangents (usually). Sometimes the reply is spot-on (the speaker correctly infers the meaning). However, it's sometimes difficult to determine what the OP wants, but that doesn't stop huge amounts of posting.

    Then when I do reply, nobody acknowledges my reply, so it feels like I made a thoughtful note, stuffed it into a bottle and threw it into the ocean.

    Sometimes I start threads, and usually not many replies to those.

    When I started posting here again, I had a joyful sort of honeymoon feeling, where I thought, "Oh, I've found my tribe." Hah! Not quite, but it's Okay. I made a few friends and my expectations have changed.

    Hah, at least being less popular is and old and familiar story.
    First of all I want to say that I do read and enjoy your posts.

    I relate very much to what you're saying, to the point that I even wrote a thread about not feeling appreciated awhile back. Even though that thread generated considerable response and allowed me to forge more connections with members of the forum, I still feel some insecurity about my value as a forum member. I try to push the insecurity aside and post anyway but even so, I feel like alot of my threads don't generate the amount of kind of response I'd like. Maybe I just have unrealistic standards. You can't realistically expect all forum members to have the time and interest in reading all the threads.

    Still it seems like some members are far more successful in making good connections with other forum members and establishing their niche on here. I'm not naturally as good at that sort of thing. Why is it that some members have far less posts than I do, yet when you look at their profile they have several times the number of visitor messages that I have? Why is it that some peoples blogs are widely read and some others are hardly read at all (like mine)? I obviously still have some insecurity about all this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I’ve definitely had this feeling before. My personal favorite: when a post goes unacknowledged (which is fine, they can’t all be winners), then someone else posts practically the same thing in different words and several people respond. Sometimes I can tell how my point was maybe unclear, reading it in retrospect, but it’s still frustrating. [This isn’t a forum thing, this is something that happens to me irl regularly too, when I’m in groups of people. ]
    Yeah, I hate it when that happens. I think some people are more focused on the person responding rather than the content itself. Whereas I focus primarily on the content and who is saying it is more secondary. This doesn't mean I ignore you. It just means, that I am more likely to read the content first and then look to see who said it. Maybe others, are more likely to see the name first and use that to determine if they will read the content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Anyway, about posts going unacknowledged, this is why I brought up building a rapport earlier. It seems like interacting more- even with smaller posts- does eventually pull in more responses. I think as someone’s username/avatar become more familiar to me, I get a better overall idea of where they’re coming from and it gets easier for me to respond to them. And I think this is the case for a lot of people, because the more someone posts- the more their posts get responded to.
    Yes, this is true. I have noticed this with myself. I think my posts are starting to get more replies compared to when I just started out. Still have this insecurity about not being acknowledged enough though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    And with posts that fall by the wayside- I think this is what happens sometimes: there are often several convos going on within a single thread, with different groups of people. If I’m engaged in one of the convos, it’s become habit to me to gloss over posts and not pay much attention to the particular ones that don’t seem to especially apply to the tangent I’m involved in. Sometimes threads move really fast, and filtering some posts out is the only way to keep up. This is where the rapport comes in- if it’s someone who is usually interested in the same kind of tangents, I’m likely to give it more weight (and spend a bit longer figuring out how it applies to the tangent I’m interested in). So yeah, it isn’t personal, it’s just a matter of trying to keep up with a thread. Even in threads that aren’t moving fast, where there’s only one conversation going on- it’s still part of my forum autopilot (unfortunately). I guess my point is: don’t let it discourage you, I definitely felt that way at first myself (‘what’s the point?’), and continuing to make posts will make your presence more familiar to others.
    Yes this is true, and its a large reason why I tend to prefer replying to smaller threads than larger ones. I wish some threads would stick more closely to the thread title. I hate it when a thread is started that's of real interest to me and the thread strays on a tangent that generates more interest than the original topic itself. If you have a need to stray that much, why not just started a new thread and say that it was an offshoot of such and such a thread?
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  7. #27
    Resident Apple Hoarder Kriash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Why do you feel uncomfortable posting? Do you think you'll receive negative feedback?...and maybe...that's why you read the pages of the topic, to reduce the chance of criticism. Or I don't know....

    You don't have to write something you know...you can always post a picture.

    I think that if you'll post some more, you'll start feeling more comfortable posting.
    It isn't really that I feel super uncomfortable, I mean, sometimes I do, but mostly, I just want to know what other people are thinking. I don't particularly like criticism, but I don't really consider it when I first post,(or say) something. I usually just think about it afterward, I sort of dwell on it actually. :ouch:

    I really do like to talk, but it is really hard for me to get the ideas in my head out into complete statements and ideas. People never really understand what I'm talking about, and when I try and explain, it just confuses them more I think it's because when I go to say something, it's either completely random, and not thought through at all, or thought about way too much, to a point where I can't possibly explain everything I've thought about it...

    I am not entirely sure if that even addressed the original thing you posted X/

  8. #28
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Yeah, I hate it when that happens. I think some people are more focused on the person responding rather than the content itself. Whereas I focus primarily on the content and who is saying it is more secondary. This doesn't mean I ignore you. It just means, that I am more likely to read the content first and then look to see who said it. Maybe others, are more likely to see the name first and use that to determine if they will read the content.

    There may be some of that going on (and I admitted above, I actually do it a little myself because it serves the very practical purpose of helping me navigate threads faster), but mostly- for me- it's a problem with figuring out what connecting details I left out. This really does happen to me irl, too, in groups of people. I dated an ENP for a long time whom I referred to as my translator. I'd make a comment in a group of people, and there'd be no response- then he'd point out I was "doing the thing" where I've left out some connecting detail. Sometimes it even took me a few tries to guess which connection people weren't making on their own (or he'd already have figured it out and explained it for me).

    One almost bizarre example that comes to mind is when- in a rather large group of friends just hanging out, drinking wine in one of our apartments- a Swedish (I think?) friend was telling the story about how, when he was younger, he had a job transporting body parts (from the hospital to some lab or something) using his bicycle. I laughed, then explained that I'd additionally mixed Pee-Wee Herman into that image for a moment. No was said anything, except my ENP who told me I was "doing the thing". So I explained that I pictured him- bare body parts sticking out of fancy white basket attached to handlebar- singing "LA LA LA LA LA-A-A-A" Pee-Wee Herman style while riding down the street. Everyone laughed. That's one of the examples where I'm still kind of baffled about how it wasn't at least somewhat clear. I'm guessing it was that particular audience. Dunno. Like I said in previous post- sometimes in retrospect I can see how the point I was trying to make wasn't clear (to the point where it's kind of embarrassing ), but other times it'll keep confounding me.

    Anyway, I don't attribute it (someone else getting several responses for saying essentially the same thing I said first) to the other poster's popularity (or whatever) so much as my own inability to always present a clear, linear point. And it's a problem I've always had irl as well, so I've learned to just be glad for the times when I am making sense.

    It really surprises me actually, the posts which get acknowledged the most- I can never really tell what will go over well before I post it. There have been things which I personally thought were brilliant insights which went completely unacknowledged- yet I'll get several rep hits, several responses and even lauded for something that I had little faith would get understood.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  9. #29
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriash View Post
    It isn't really that I feel super uncomfortable, I mean, sometimes I do, but mostly, I just want to know what other people are thinking. I don't particularly like criticism, but I don't really consider it when I first post,(or say) something. I usually just think about it afterward, I sort of dwell on it actually. :ouch:

    I really do like to talk, but it is really hard for me to get the ideas in my head out into complete statements and ideas. People never really understand what I'm talking about, and when I try and explain, it just confuses them more I think it's because when I go to say something, it's either completely random, and not thought through at all, or thought about way too much, to a point where I can't possibly explain everything I've thought about it...

    I am not entirely sure if that even addressed the original thing you posted X/
    I know this feeling all to well and it has been the bane to my existance for many years. I was lucky to eventually find someone I never again did need to explain myself to and nowadays I dont have a bad feeling when I need to explain the things I just said again at my workplace.

    I've always thought that the understanding of communication will eventually be the shiled that will ward me against all attacks and help me to ricochet every bullet, but I figured everytime I thought I've become a master, I met someone better than me, so I quit.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #30
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    Just imagine you're a faith healer & the keyboard is like the desperate wayward sinner waiting for God's grace (which is in your fingers in case you've forgotten, you're the faith healer).

    or if you're not religious, imagine the keyboard as that whack-a-mole game from the arcade... just bang on the keys. something will come, just have faith.
    I am religious, but I really like the whack-a-mole image.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
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    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
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    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
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    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" Gandhi
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