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  1. #31
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    You might underestimate yourself. That would be Pretty 6w5ish and INFJish of you.
    Is it really? I wonder if it's 6w5ish to not id with flattering descriptions of types (hence I've found the Enneagram a bit easier, 'funnily' enough). I'd much rather think of myself as a miserable bastard and then be pleasantly surprised than the other way around, and this is probably one of the most 6w5ish things about me. On the other hand there's the sitting on the fence namby-pamby me, which 'nods' more to 6w7.
    Last edited by Alternatum; 03-24-2011 at 01:50 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #32
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    Overestimating yourself is also a type of underestimation. Some INFJs seem to be great at this one too

    Your "miserable bastard" philosophy is something I apply to the promises I make to people.
    If I sell myself short then I am more likely to impress, than if I sell myself tall and then disappoint.
    Interesting.

  3. #33
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    Well this thread has certainly given me food for thought. Thanks again everyone!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have a need to understand everything. I almost never will back down from a new concept & admit defeat. I'll mull it over & seek other explanations until I have some kind of understanding, even if it's a shallow one at best. This definitely includes people & why they things (hence the interest in psychology).
    Yes, hence how I just can't leave the goddamn MBTI alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I might actually distance myself from my immediate emotions though, and instead explore emotions via a fantasy situation. It's weird how what amounts to daydreaming is actually a problem-solving tool for my mind....I feel like I've learned more about the world this way than through real life experience at times.
    I use fantasy to explore pretty much everything, but unfortunately it often becomes a substitute for 'real' life.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yes...this is soooooooo Ne.
    I appear to very much have the spirit of Ne, but without using it for anything much that is practical.

    Quote Originally Posted by musttry View Post
    1. I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective
    13. Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

    Is this one of your number 11’s?
    I love the way this point has been so differently interpreted, but basically yes, in this case the possibilities for comedy, for the sake of 'balance'

  4. #34
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaveri View Post
    If I'm an NF (which is not certain), then I'm an INFP. In the other case, I'm an INTP.

    1. I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’

      Hmm... Depends on the "things". I guess, yeah. I spend more time trying to figure out the problem of morality or the universe or a math problem etc. However, usually when people say things like this, they seem to mean that they spend a lot of time trying to figure out their relationships with other people or something like that. I don't think about my relationships with other people all that much. I do try to figure out myself (because I happen to have a lot of emotional problems, for one) but I'm not a relationship-analyser.

    2. I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions

      Not really. My therapist actually tells me that I have difficulties even recognising my own emotions. He also says that I seem to guard my painful spots particularly carefully. I guess I should try and explore my pains if that helps me with my depression etc but I'm not too excited about going there. :/
    3. I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me

      An extension of myself? Whoa, that sounds sick. :/ What does it mean?
    4. I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx

      YES!

    5. I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish

      No.
    And whence you re-conceived the NF 'concept'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaveri View Post
    Yeah, I guess. Escaping isn't always good, though. I'm learning to meditate and part of meditation is being entirely in the here and the now, not in any fantasy world. So far, meditation (=concentration on immediate reality) has made me feel good, sometimes even miraculous. It has also made me experience that there is a greater truth beyond this immediate world, something that is even beyond imagination and fantasy.
    I intend to try meditation again. It's amazing how even mundane objects can 'magically' take on a new quality if you stare at them in the right way.
    Last edited by Alternatum; 03-27-2011 at 06:27 AM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    2.If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision.

    3. I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’.

    4. I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions.

    5. I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression.

    6. I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

    11. I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.

    12. Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

    15.I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).


    ON A SIDE NOTE:

    I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. But I'm usually caught there, I for one am organized in what I feel/think should be organized & am disorganized in the rest.

    You're in your INFx phase - what am I stage that assumes possibilities which actually make you more of an INFP. The will to make you go back and clarify makes you an INFP. I think in our heads all INFPs are disorganized, even if we are externally organized and grammar-nazis, - some don't understand how much we really are.

    I can be INXP (as male INFPs tend to have variable Te) and it could make me more of an organized/critical person.

    I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, BECAUSE OF THE FLOW OF IDEAS IN MY HEAD...
    and I can see that I have a soulmate as an extension of myself, - that's why we INFPs choose our amigos wisely.

    My perspective is right/wrong, but that's just how I categorize, everything else is done through the big picture, - most of everything actually.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  6. #36
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. But I'm usually caught there, I for one am organized in what I feel/think should be organized & am disorganized in the rest.
    I wonder if you mean you have a vision of how you would like to be organised, but in practice...things just keep changing, impulses crop up etc.

    You're in your INFx phase - what am I stage that assumes possibilities which actually make you more of an INFP. The will to make you go back and clarify makes you an INFP. I think in our heads all INFPs are disorganized, even if we are externally organized and grammar-nazis, - some don't understand how much we really are.
    As in, the will to go back and clarify what I meant by each statement, or to clarify my personality/MBTI/Jung?

    My perspective is right/wrong, but that's just how I categorize, everything else is done through the big picture, - most of everything actually.
    It's complicated for me. Often I've tried to find the best or 'right' perspective, only to think aren't these two/three/four views equally valid in their own way?

  7. #37
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I wonder if you mean you have a vision of how you would like to be organised, but in practice...things just keep changing, impulses crop up etc.
    It's just plainly that, I would use organization in a way that I feel it's appropriate, - like organizing files next to an organized CD rack. But I'd pile my clothes up in my closet without paying attention at all. So I guess you could say that, but organization as I've heard doesn't affect personality apparently. There are INFPs who are much more organized than some INFJs out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    As in, the will to go back and clarify what I meant by each statement, or to clarify my personality/MBTI/Jung?
    In any way. If you're an INFP, the flow of ideas in your head makes it harder to clarify what you really mean, whether it's how a sentence looks/sounds, or how much it expresses what you're trying to mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    It's complicated for me. Often I've tried to find the best or 'right' perspective, only to think aren't these two/three/four views equally valid in their own way?
    The views are pretty much what you incline to more, I'm actually literally an inxx but that's impossible in mbti, but I incline toward more INFP views, - that bit of inclination means a lot to your behavior by my experience, - even though you wouldn't notice it at first.

    But if you knew me it would be pretty clear that I'm an INXP. INFXs aren't possible types of mbti because INFJ and INFP functions (the thing they're practically based on) are totally opposite. But INXPs are possible because INFPs and INTPs share the same functions, except they use them in a different order.
    INXPs sometimes mistake their variable Thinking(Te) function, for the organization/order that INFJs posses.

    I think you're an INFP 'cause you consider the possibilities which is a pretty big trait of INFPs, - another big hint would be how you said the views are 'equal in their own way' which is a very mediating INFP statement, - like 'why can't we all get along?' . . (no scrutiny)

    Hopefully you understand my blabber, g'day/g'night.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  8. #38
    Junior Member stellachiara's Avatar
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    1. I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective

      *I have a definite sense of right and wrong, though my standards for what I consider right and wrong are unusual and can't really be predicted by any normal system of morality.

    2. If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision

      *I won't make a decision until I get the go-ahead from my intuition, so maybe that's what you're saying here.

    3. I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’

      *I guess I used to, but I think I've gotten to the point where I've figured a lot of stuff out by now

    4. I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions

      *That used to be true for me, yes. I resolved most of them and I don't have to do that anymore.

    5. I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression

      * I was like that with my family until recently, but was never really like that outside the family.

    6. I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

      *Heck yeah.

    7. I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me

      *I think if one feels that other people are an extension of themselves, that is a problem that needs to be resolved with therapy.

    8. I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type

      *No. If it were objectively establishable, it wouldn't be sophisticated enough to handle the true complexity of personality.

    9. I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx

      *Nope, I'm an INFJ right down the line, with no deviations.

    10. I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish.

      *No way! I'm just a person, which means I'm not better or worse than anyone else.

    11. I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.

      *Sometimes, but i wouldn't spend too much time doing this.

    12. Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

      *Maybe when I was younger and had less control over my environment and what I do with my time. I am pretty good at visualizing things for a specific purpose (something I want to achieve or accomplish), but escape into fantasy isn't something I do. I like being here where I am. Plus, I know I am effective if I stay here instead of escaping and thus letting other people make the decisions for me.

    13. Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

      *If it's just in your head, it's not actually happening. We're not brains in jars. Reality is something that has be faced, and then you have a chance to make it better. If you abdicate and escape into fantasy, reality continues without you having any say in what happens to you.

    14. I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.

      *I don't like chaos, and I like to be prepared, but I have a pretty good tolerance for disorganization. Lists and spreadsheets never really worked for me, but putting things on my Outlook calendar and setting reminders seems to do the trick.

    15. I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).

      *Sure, but I'm always aiming for the better If it is better to stick to plan, I'll do that. If it's better to deviate from it, that's what I'll do. But I usually won't deviate from the plan just for the heck of it.


  9. #39
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    1.I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective

    *There's a lot of things I regard as wrong, though context can be important. Basically, people disagree about things an awful lot, and what I was trying to capture was the way in which I often regard multiple viewpoints/opinions as 'right' on some level. The level of moral implication or magnitude implied by 'right/wrong' covers a very wide range as well.*


    There are some things that I definitely regard as right and some that I definitely regard as wrong and some that I believe are just a matter of opinion and circumstance.


    2.If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision

    *Describes a situation where either more information or more clarity, insight or perspective has been obtained, resulting in an easier decision*


    Sometimes I do. Sometimes, I don't have time to wait. Sometimes it's a life and death situation, a do or die moment and a decision has to be made on the spot. I am usually very decisive.

    3.I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’

    *'Things' in this context could be anything that is part of the universe, including people*


    Yep...that I do!

    4.I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions

    *'Negative' in this context can be taken to mean emotions like melancholy, despair, anger, fear, shame, guilt etc., regardless of whether these are perceived to have 'value' or not.*


    No. Life is too short and eternity too long to spend time my short mortal existence in the negative zone. I experience them, pray about what is causing them and then just let them go. I don't dwell too long in darkness, because darkness has a tendency to make creatures go blind and I do not want to become a cave crikett.

    5.I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression

    Not really. I want their approval. I crave their friendship and kindness, but when it comes right down to it, I have to ultimately follow the course for my own life.

    6.I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

    Yes. If I have to...I'll do that.

    7.I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me*I think individual interpretation rules here - do you perceive a 'soulmate' as 'self-extending' (for you personally)? It doesn't have to be a 'romantic' attachment/partner either, it could for example be children.*

    I'm not really sure I understand the question. I can feel the pain of others. I can feel the joy of others, but when the rubber meets the road, the only person's choices I can truly answer for are my own. No matter how hard I try, I cannot bring another person peace or joy or contentment. I cannot give their life purpose. All I can do is offer a hand to hold, a shoulder to cry on and soul to laugh with.

    8.I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type

    *I ironically hate putting people/myself in boxes/stereo-typing, and think it is more complicated than people make out. However, I would jump at the chance to be able to have my usage of Jungian-functions monitored, if this were possible/painless.*


    I think it is impossible to correctly identify people, but the MBTI sort of thing basically just helps me to realize and remember that not everyone sees the world, experiences the world, the same way that I do. It helps me to be more accepting and less judgemental of others.

    9.I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx

    Not really. I think we all have a bit of everything in us and it is possible to be a "healthy" whatever and to use those strengths to make our lives and the lives of others better. It is also possible to use our personality as an excuse to be a jerk. Personality type is never an excuse to be self-absorbed, uncaring, cruel or malicious.

    10.I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish

    I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I am capable of great evil. We all are, but we are also capable of great good...of merciful and unselfish acts. I know that there are hordes of people in the world who would vehemently disagree with me, but I believe it's all about choices. Everyone of us has a sad story. Everyone of us have reasons to be horrible, but not everyone of use chooses to become slaves to those reasons and to our pasts.

    11.I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.
    *By concept/abstraction it could just mean something you were vague about, like you couldn't say exactly what it is. It could be either an 'everyday' scenario or something more surreal/removed. I appreciate that some people will relate to the first sentence but not the second as well.*

    Oh, yeah...that's ME!!!

    12.Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

    *I didn't mean to imply I get bored much in the sense of thinking there's nothing to do. I find there's usually something worth doing and always something to think about or imagine - the trick is in the mind. I do sometimes think immediate reality is amazing actually, but it all depends on current perspective and what aspects I am tuning into.*


    yeah, when I'm bored...I'm off to another reality.

    13.Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

    *'Sometimes' is key here. It's just another perspective I sometimes adopt, because I don't think reality/the universe has a pre-defined purpose actually.*


    I think that reality is more than we know. There is more to reality than what we sense in this physical realm. This plane of existence is, in my opinion, like a journey through a foreign land. The body I'm in is just my vechile and someday I'm going to get out of the car and go home. I think that the ancient philosopher had it right. THIS IS THE DREAM.

    14.I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.

    I hate disorder. I hate and I DO MEAN HATE clutter and lots of stuff lying around. But I also hate rigidity, so I make a plan and schedule in moments of flexible time, just in case I get run over by a brainstorm of creativity, which happens to me sometimes. haha...I make plans to be spontaneous...I actually label it "piddling time" on my schedule.

    15.I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse). I can't do that. I teach and do lots of public speaking and also have art project deadlines to meet, so again, I pencil in blocks of time that I can use for just whatever notion the wind blows into my head.

    This was fun. Thanks for thinking of it!

  10. #40
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    So I guess you could say that, but organization as I've heard doesn't affect personality apparently. There are INFPs who are much more organized than some INFJs out there.

    INXPs sometimes mistake their variable Thinking(Te) function, for the organization/order that INFJs posses.

    Yes. I've even seriously considered ISTJ, but it seems a relatively minor player in my mindset.


    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    In any way. If you're an INFP, the flow of ideas in your head makes it harder to clarify what you really mean, whether it's how a sentence looks/sounds, or how much it expresses what you're trying to mean.

    The views are pretty much what you incline to more, I'm actually literally an inxx but that's impossible in mbti, but I incline toward more INFP views, - that bit of inclination means a lot to your behavior by my experience, - even though you wouldn't notice it at first.

    I think you're an INFP 'cause you consider the possibilities which is a pretty big trait of INFPs

    INFP is what I've kept coming back to. And I think INFPs are much more likely to think they might be INFJ than the other way around, and are often aware of having a cast of alter-egos.


    Perspective number one:
    Quote Originally Posted by stellachiara View Post
    If it's just in your head, it's not actually happening. We're not brains in jars. Reality is something that has be faced, and then you have a chance to make it better. If you abdicate and escape into fantasy, reality continues without you having any say in what happens to you.
    Perspective number two:
    Quote Originally Posted by d'lene View Post
    I think that reality is more than we know. There is more to reality than what we sense in this physical realm. This plane of existence is, in my opinion, like a journey through a foreign land. The body I'm in is just my vechile and someday I'm going to get out of the car and go home. I think that the ancient philosopher had it right. THIS IS THE DREAM.

    It's all good.
    Last edited by Alternatum; 04-14-2011 at 12:44 PM. Reason: spacing

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