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  1. #11
    Señora Member Elfa's Avatar
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    1. There are only a few stuff, very few, that I regard as being purely right or wrong, and I just wanted people to see the same way as I do, even knowing of the different perspectives... Most things I remember that are different perspectives and I don't judge as right or wrong... It's just better or worse for the intentions of someone and for certain purpose, so it gets very relative...

    2. Yeah, I wait as long as I can if I'm not sure.

    3. Yes, I wait as long as I can if I'm not sure.

    4. Yes, a lot.

    6. I isolate myself more than most people I know... But not because I think that I'll lose my individuality if I don't do it, I just like doing things by myself...

    7. I can imagine it and I can imagine myself doing it. I'm actually afraid of letting myself doing this too much... I don't think extending myself is a healthy thing to do, so I try to avoid it.

    8. I think it is very interpretative, but I actually like it being this way. If it was possible have my functions monitored somehow, it would be fun, but no more than that.

    9. I'm always thinking: "am I really infp? or I'm infj? or enfp, or isfp, or intp??". Then I do some research and get to the conclusion that I'm really infp. Two weeks later, I do the same again.

    10. Kinda... but I try to remember that, if I want to judge myself, I can jugde for my actions, not by the possibility of me being a bad person.

    11. Yes!

    12. Yes! yes! often!

    13. Yes. haha

    14. I'm very disorganized... I just don't like when people in my house change the places where things used to be, and then I can't find them and have to look for them all around...

    15. Plans are only for being prepared if I don't think of anything to do, but I usually change all the plans in the last possible moment.

  2. #12
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your replies so far, though I'm unsure whether I'm asking the right questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I wouldn’t say it’s totally alien, but I don’t see other people as being extensions of myself- even those I’m closest to. This Rilke quote sums up my sentiments exactly: “Once the realization is accepted that even between the closest human beings infinite distances continue, a wonderful living side by side can grow, if they succeed in loving the distance between them which makes it possible for each to see the other whole against the sky.”
    Wonderful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    So you mean, like a cat scan or something? That would trouble me, because then people would have even less ‘authority’ of their own to determine their type. The whole system is a framework of concepts created by people to understand (and communicate with each other about) an underlying phenomenon. While finding some neuroscientific process- which strongly correlates function preference with ‘objective’, directly measurable observations of brain activity- has a certain appeal, at the end of the day the “cognitive functions” are still just man-made concepts. I see the underlying phenomenon as being a purely subjective event, without the possibility of decidedly ‘objective’ measurement/definition. [In short, that sounds interesting- as long as it doesn’t stop people from reflecting on/questioning how true the information is.]
    It is just one way of looking at things, but still I find a great deal of emphasis is placed on identifying the 'right' type. I can't help but think that if I appear one way today and another way the next, I have more than one 'type', but then maybe the alter-egos are not of equal significance, or are transcended by some unifying principle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I often don’t see myself in other INFJs, and it’s not like every single INFJ description applies to me in every single way- but I’ve never really related to another type description enough to question it very hard.
    My impression is that INFJs are far less likely to have difficulty typing than INFPs. I'm unsure why that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don’t do well with shifts that are imposed by some outside influence unless I’m relatively prepared for them to happen.
    I relate to this well.

  3. #13
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective
    More now than before, I think that the ability to see multiple sides in any issue is the greatest possible thing anyone can learn. This doesn't mean that there isn't rights and wrongs, but that they are more like a complex system of intersecting spectrums than ultimates. Then the moral question comes to look like "how much of self-denial I am willing to allow in order to make the world a better place". It leads to interesting dilemma about my role in relation to the people and the planet. If I go with the flow, I damage the nature, if I jump out I damage the economy (and people, indirectly) and both of the options will lead to me making different kind of compromises about my person. How important is my person anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision
    Yep, I trust in my instincts. This is a reaction to the multi-perspective world view. Basically, I don't trust that my consciousness has much power at all to figure things out, since it is working with a limited set of tools. And usually it doesn't really matter too much which direction I take, since I don't know the results of any choice until later on. The ripples of any choice makes it very hard to know the future, so I can just as well trust the instincts. The reason they are better than consciousness is that they are super fast and situational. Consciousness is always one step behind because it trusts memory to make predictions about future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’
    No. Not anymore. I wouldn't trust my instincts if I were doing this. Of course there are some situations where an important decision has to be made and there is time to think about it. These are temptations, and I fall for them sometimes, but I try to remind myself to not start looping in the problem, since there is only so much I can do about it. If I have all the info I can come up with, then I can't do much more about it than to decide to go one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions
    Yeah, if I have negative emotions, I try to know where they are coming from. Then I evaluate how reasonable they are. If they are reasonable, I try to change the situation. I think I am quite sensitive to negative vibes and such, so it is an important part of my life to cut myself off of negative environments and people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression
    Yes and no. I need accepting atmosphere, but it is something that cannot be forced into being in any way. So, the only thing I can do is choose well the people I spend my time with. I am in a fortunate situation, since I have managed to surround myself with people who aren't expecting anything from me except that I am me, and that I do the dishes and vacuum the house once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.
    Yes. If necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me
    True. Everyone is an individual, but it is also true that no one is disconnected from the social environment. The people I spend my time with are constantly having an effect on me and the other way around. I think of this as such an important concept that I would go quite far without eliminating a negative connection in order to not upset the balance. It might be that a negative person is actually important for the well-being of the group. Of course, too much is too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I think individual interpretation rules here - do you perceive a 'soulmate' as 'self-extending' (for you personally)? It doesn't have to be a 'romantic' attachment/partner either, it could for example be children.
    Synergy might be the word. I believe that two person can both be better off together than alone. Both gain and neither loses anything. This is also in some relation to the previous question. When you group people with positive vibes and/or similar minds, you get a group that can be seen as an individual that can work better than any of the people individually. As long as the individuals in the group stay open to each other and deeply democratic in their views, this is possible. Whenever there are power games and defenses against each other, the synergy fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type
    It's a neat toy to play with, but other than that, it's not too important for me. I don't care that much about types, but I would be interested to know why some people are just my type of people and some are not. I mean that with some people there's instant connection that is impossible to get with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx
    It's more like I see the type to cover only a narrow range of features and my answer to many of the typing questions depends on how far I am willing to interpret the question. In fact, if I was really fascinated with typing myself accurately, I should come to a conclusion that my type is mostly situational, and nothing static like an INFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish
    This is related with the first question. To not see the world black or white means that it is impossible for me to see myself black or white. So, no, I don't feel guilty often. It is just about how good am I willing to be. Being as good as I can is at the moment so difficult for me that I have to compromise. It would be too big a sacrifice to move out in the forest and build a house and grow my own food. I don't even have the financial resourses for it, and I would have to be able to get them without giving my tax money to a government that is part of the global game of pushing the developing countries down in order to push ourselves up. And to not give tax money to them is to not keep the economy growing, thus making it more likely for the system to collapse, leading to an incredible amount of human suffering. This is a dilemma I can't escape at the moment, so I just try to be "relatively good". Besides, I don't know if it is better to be isolated or to be inside the system and spread the word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.
    Yes. I sometimes laugh to my ideas alone in public, which might seem weird to bystanders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.
    It depends on the reality. I can watch nature for long periods of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.
    Yeah, in a way. When I paint, it is often about nature, but never naturalistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.
    Plans are just sketches. I don't value them that much. Spontaneity is the only way to prepare for anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).
    Yes.

  4. #14
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    [*]I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective
    Yes and no.

    I live and breath looking at things from different angles.

    In many/most cases I may not have a solid opinion on something. In other cases I may have a solid opinion, which I might state and which will influence my choices and such, but I don't expect or need others to agree with me.

    [*]If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision
    Relate.

    I often let things sift around in my mind until I've worked through all of my thoughts/feelings and can reach a decision point. It's pretty common that I don't immediately know what I think/feel about something, so I need that time to contemplate. Much of the time it isn't an 'active' process per , though.


    [*]I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’
    I guess so? I'm always analyzing things.

    [*]I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions
    Somewhat relate; I don't think that I become preoccupied/consumed with it, though.

    It's important for me to get to the root of things and figure out why I might be feeling a certain way so as to be able to resolve it and either change the situation or change my perspective, but I wouldn't say I'm pre-occupied with negative emotions. In fact I find them really unpleasant so that's why I try to dig into them and 'solve' for them as soon as possible - I want to get back to my 'baseline' and out of the unpleasantness. For me I see the negatives as more signs that something is amiss that I need to figure out.



    [*]I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression
    Not sure.

    With those I really care about, I probably become a little manic with making sure the relationship is going well and all of that, with a tendency to forgoing my own needs in favor of the other persons' (although I've reached a much better balance in recent yrs); but as a general rule I don't care much about what most people think of me. Really it's just those I have a vested interest in /relationship with already, or those I desire a relationship with.

    [*]I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.
    Not sure.

    I need a pretty significant amt of down time, totally to myself. But I don't really view that as isolating myself.... it's more just a necessity for me to stay balanced. But I'm def. not a fan of loneliness, at all, or being without friends/loved ones for a great length of time.


    [*]I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me
    Not sure.

    My friends and lovers are those I *choose* and desire to have in my life (and obviously it has to be mutual, otherwise it wouldn't be a relationship), and really really value - in that sense, they say something about me. They are reflections in a way of my own values, interests, and self.

    [*]I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type
    mbti definitely isn't objective, and yeah, I was really bothered with that for a while.

    *I ironically hate putting people/myself in boxes/stereo-typing, and think it is more complicated than people make out. However, I would jump at the chance to be able to have my usage of Jungian-functions monitored, if this were possible/painless.*
    Don't exactly relate, mostly because I think mbti/cog functions are only one tool of MANY possible tools. So I wouldn't read that much into cognitive functions being 'monitored' in me, any more than other things.

    I think mbti/cog. functions are just another tool of trying to explain patterns we see (people naturally notice patterns/'types' , mbti is just one way to group people) and put a name to abstract processes. What makes it complicated is that everyone has their own interpretation on typing and also cog. function definitions (complicated by the tendency to lump behaviors into functions), so the lack of solid definitions and methods that everyone agrees on makes it silly in many ways.

    [*]I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish
    I don't relate to this.

    9.I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx
    My e5 sp enneagram makes me often identify with many aspects of NT's, as well as T-mbti-dichotomy-type questions (With dichotomy tests, I often used to test as INTJ). However when comparing myself to dom/aux Te-ers and Ti-ers irl, I don't really fit the bill. INFJ makes the most sense, especially when also factoring in the e5 sp.



    [*]I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.
    Not sure. I spend most of my time in my head. 'Amused'? I'm not sure!!

    [*]Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.
    Not sure I relate.

    There's probably a time I could have - when younger and when I was rather unhappy with my life - but I now am to a point where I think I have the tools/ability to try to create the reality I WANT. Part of it too is having gotten to the point where I've accepted the nature of many elements I used to fight against.

    [*]Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.
    Well sure... I mean reality is how things are right now. It doesn't do one a whole lot of good to deny the nature of what actualy Is. I'm of the opinion if you/I want to move forward and be healthy and happy, I have to acknowledge what is, look for what is in my power to change or work with, and if it's not in my power to change, either deal with it/accept it, or change my expectations/view of all of it.

    [*]I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.
    I love organization and really dislike being unprepared. I guess I view being unprepared as being kinda irresponsible. I don't have any set way of being organized/prepared, though -- I mean, I'm not a chronicl listmaker or anything. But yeah, if I realize I can't keep track of everything in my head, I'll then resort to tools (write stuff down) to remind me.

    [*]I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).
    Don't really relate.

    I'm a pretty big planner and feel a lot better when I do have a plan. I should say though that I'm not one who requires specifics - I just like to know that on Saturday I'll be doing *something* with so and so, and we can figure out the details later, and on Wednesday evening I have something else going on. (I also 'plan'/account for days ahead of time when I don't want to plan for anything, and I purposefully leave them open ) But, if we're just talking having a conversation with someone, or once I'm already doing something I've planned for, then yeah, it's not like I won't shift based on new developments.
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  5. #15
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Statements I can relate to are in bold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post

    1. I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective

      *There's a lot of things I regard as wrong, though context can be important. Basically, people disagree about things an awful lot, and what I was trying to capture was the way in which I often regard multiple viewpoints/opinions as 'right' on some level. The level of moral implication or magnitude implied by 'right/wrong' covers a very wide range as well.*

    2. If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision

      *Describes a situation where either more information or more clarity, insight or perspective has been obtained, resulting in an easier decision*

    3. I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’

      *'Things' in this context could be anything that is part of the universe, including people*

    4. I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions

      *'Negative' in this context can be taken to mean emotions like melancholy, despair, anger, fear, shame, guilt etc., regardless of whether these are perceived to have 'value' or not.*

    5. I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression

    6. I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

    7. I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me

      *I think individual interpretation rules here - do you perceive a 'soulmate' as 'self-extending' (for you personally)? It doesn't have to be a 'romantic' attachment/partner either, it could for example be children.*

    8. I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type

      *I ironically hate putting people/myself in boxes/stereo-typing, and think it is more complicated than people make out. However, I would jump at the chance to be able to have my usage of Jungian-functions monitored, if this were possible/painless.*

    9. I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx

    10. I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish

    11. I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.

      *By concept/abstraction it could just mean something you were vague about, like you couldn't say exactly what it is. It could be either an 'everyday' scenario or something more surreal/removed. I appreciate that some people will relate to the first sentence but not the second as well.*

    12. Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

      *I didn't mean to imply I get bored much in the sense of thinking there's nothing to do. I find there's usually something worth doing and always something to think about or imagine - the trick is in the mind. I do sometimes think immediate reality is amazing actually, but it all depends on current perspective and what aspects I am tuning into.*

    13. Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

      *'Sometimes' is key here. It's just another perspective I sometimes adopt, because I don't think reality/the universe has a pre-defined purpose actually.*

    14. I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.
    1. I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).
    This last one somewhat resonates with me.... For me as a (pretty strong) J, I like to have a plan. I'm opening to deviating from it if something better comes along or it gets screwed up in some way, and I'm pretty flexible and easygoing under such circumstances. And as a (very strong) I, even if I plan to do something social, often times I back out at the last minute, so in that way I can be a bit unpredictable. but if I don't have a plan at all, I feel uneasy. It's weird, but that's what I do.

    Overall, it sounds to me like you're a J, but maybe not a very strong one. Someone said once that if you are pre-occupied with establishing whether you're a J or P, then you're a J. If you are okay with being unclear on that point, and just being INFx, then you're a P. That made a lot of sense to me.
    Last edited by Aquarelle; 03-22-2011 at 08:50 AM.
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  6. #16
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    1. I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective

      Yes. My life philosophy is based on this concept. Everything is just perception, everything is relative.


    2. If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision

      Depends. I have been known to do both. Often it depends on how much of a situation I can control or think I can. I think the more personal the situation the more likely I am to try and force things.


    3. I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’


      I spend ALL my time trying to figure things out. Even when I am consciously not, some part of me is equating.



    4. I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions


      I insist on it. The answers are there, not in my darn smile.



    5. I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression

      Sometimes a person or a few people can have this effect on me. Usually in love.
      Most of the time I am not too concerned.


    6. I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

      Yes. I wish I wouldn't but, yes.
    7. I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me

      Not an extension, no, but in a way, bonded, yes. I feel connected at times and this feels like someone can somehow be a part of me, and me, them, even if only for a while.

    8. I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type

      Yes, and No.. MBTI is cool for what it is. It better to use on yourself than on others.
      I do not "wish" for a more accurate system, I suppose it's inevitable anyway.
      Humans love to quantify.


    9. I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx

      Yes. But Nobody scores 100% of a function. So at any given moment I could be INFJ to ESTP or any type in between. If this system is calculated by %. Then of course sometimes all those possible other combination's will be lined up from time to time. It's simple math. Also, emotional health plays a massive role.

    10. I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish

      Yes. However I don't worry about it. I KNOW it. I am at war with myself over it.

    11. I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.

      Yes.


    12. Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

      No and yes? Depends on what that "reality" is and if fantasy would be better.

    13. Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

      I think reality is just a possibility itself.


    14. I hate disorganization, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.

      I function better in a well organized environment and can maintain it, I however fail at creating one myself.

    15. I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).


      A little of both. I have plans and try to follow them trough, but life gets in the way so I adjust and keep trying. Sometimes It takes a while to adjust because I am pissed off things are not going as planned and I am not adapting at moving on with plan B but rather trying to find ways to make Plan A work in spite of itself.


  7. #17
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Thanks again everyone for your thoughtful responses.

    ArcLight - didn't you start a thread about screwed-up INFJs? I couldn't see where it was (not that I looked THAT hard) - which 'archetype' did you think you were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    Statements I can relate to are in bold.
    Overall, it sounds to me like you're a J, but maybe not a very strong one. Someone said once that if you are pre-occupied with establishing whether you're a J or P, then you're a J. If you are okay with being unclear on that point, and just being INFx, then you're a P. That made a lot of sense to me.
    Contrary to what I've said in the past I now think it would be easier to ignore the functions, because they've actually complicated the hell out of things for me. I've narrowed it down to INF (hence the thread), despite having not been able to ascertain use of either Ni or Ne through self-observation (though I know someone online who is convinced I am NJ). All I know is I am a big 'fan' of 'hidden' or potential realities, somewhat prefer the intra/inter-personal to the impersonal (whilst still having an 'eye' for the latter), and am clearly introverted. For J/P I am completely paradoxical.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I'm going to throw mine in.. every single mbti test I take says E, but I am still not completely convinced. If any of you see any of my answers that weigh heavily as more INFP, do tell

    I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective

    I have a very small set of absolute right or wrong ~ physical/emotional harm and murder. Everything else is context.
    I can understand (thought not justify) almost any action, to the point that it scares me!


    If I’m not sure what to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision.

    Rarely. I usually know deep within whats right (for me that is) but sometimes have a hard time enforcing because I hate any form of pain or discomfort.

    I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’

    No. I tend to get bored pouring myself into things for too long, and move to something else. I spend more time connecting surface level ideas, but occasionally dig deep. Not nearly as deep as the INFJ's on this forum do though.

    I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions

    Nope. In depth examination can spin me into two many circles sometimes. When I'm down, I will put way more effort into physical actions to bring myself up, or focusing on positive, than trying to pinpoint the neg emotions.

    I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression

    Absolutely. It's getting better with age, but what other people think can really hinder my natural expression.

    I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

    Yes. But I don't get myself into this situation very often. I surround myself with people that don't hinder me.

    I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me

    Not only can I imagine it, but I've felt it. Only once before though.

    I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type

    Yes Yes Yes! I know cognitive functions requires a tremendous amount of indepth analysis, but find that much of it is open to interpretation. If someone does not know themselves well, they can mistype. If someone WANTS to appear a certain way, they can mistype. If someone doesn't fully understand wording, they can mistype. I wish there was an mbti blood test!

    I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx.

    I've had trouble mistyping my E/I because I think I'm really close to the border, and see both introverted and extroverted traits.

    I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish.

    Generally, it is the opposite. I will occasionally handle situations poorly, reactively, but I know that deep down I am a good person that could never intentionally hurt someone. I am forgiving to a fault. Its very difficult for me to hold onto grudges and pain.

    I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.

    Yes. I create hypothetical scenarios all the time, and explain them to my friends. If I could draw better I'd be a KICK ASS cartoonist.

    Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

    Given the choice of making reality fun, or escaping into fantasy.. I would hands down make reality fun. I escape into fantasy when I cant find any other way to make it a reality.

    Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

    No, I don't see reality this way at all.

    I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.

    I'd rather not be disorganized and unprepared.. and sometimes I am more preventative.. but find the energy it takes for me to plan ahead and organize is much greater than the energy it takes to wing it.

    I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).

    I take into account group dynamics. If a better thing suddenly arises, I always want to do it. I have no problem straying the pre arranged path. But I understand other people find comfort in plans, so I will often conform in the name of keeping the peace.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #19
    Junior Member Alchemilla's Avatar
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    1. I often don’t regard things as right/wrong – it’s often just a matter of perspective

    Not sure. I often don't, but I do have a very strong sense of morality. I subscribe to the idea of subjective morality but I think some people take it too far. I don't think it is okay for someone to own slaves, for example, just because slavery is part of their culture.

    2. If I’m not sure wat to do about something, I tend to wait for the ‘right’ solution to emerge naturally, rather than force a decision

    Yes. I don't bite the bullet. I dodge the bullet, I run away and hide from the bullet. Some choices have become easier though if I can defer to something else. Take clothes shopping: it has become so much easier since I've deferred to a pallet of colours that suit me that I found online, and cuts that suit my body shape that I gleaned from TV and past experiences.
    I used to be hopeless in shopping, and I thought all my clothes were dull and boring. I like everything much better now, I experiment more in what I wear and it's less stress because I refer to my "rules."

    3. I seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to ‘figure things out’

    YES!

    4. I'm often pre-occupied with resolving/exploring negative emotions

    Yes

    5. I feel I need other people's acceptance too much – it can interfere with my independence of mind/self-expression

    Yes. There are certain people for whom this is definitely true, to the point where I consider altering my personality for them. This happens when I'm stressed or scared of rocking boats. Mostly I become ground down with the day-to-day, and I'm easily squashed or made nervous of strong personalities.
    At the same time, if put in the right environment I won't compromise myself at all, and I'll speak my mind, be assertive and go against the popular opinion of the group. (I'm thinking of a New Age circle that I know.) I always do it thinking of win/win, but I am sensitive, and I beat myself up which leads to long nights craving acceptance and self-blaming.

    6. I'll isolate myself/risk loneliness to obtain relative independence of mind/self-expression, if necessary.

    Yes. I'm teaching myself to do the opposite though.

    7. I can't imagine feeling anyone was an extension of myself – this is a totally alien concept to me

    Yes. I think so. I feel people's feelings as if they are my own, and I am touched deeply by other people. So I think that is a yes. I don't own them and I don't think I can tell anyone what to do though (apparently unlike other INFJs, I'm not into dishing out advice).

    8. I find typologies like Jung/MBTI/Enneagram overly interpretative – I wish there was a way of objectively establishing type

    I agree with what you said: "I ironically hate putting people/myself in boxes/stereo-typing, and think it is more complicated than people make out. However, I would jump at the chance to be able to have my usage of Jungian-functions monitored, if this were possible/painless."

    9. I’ve had a lot of trouble typing, because I see highly contrasting sides to myself, some of which seem incompatible with INFx

    Yes. I especially have trouble with the ennegram typing system. I could be so many of them! I get different results when I do the same test of different days.

    10. I often worry about being a ‘rotten’ person deep down, and can feel guilty merely imagining myself as capable of doing something 'bad' or selfish

    Yeah. Big time.

    11. I can be highly amused by my own imagined scenarios. Sometimes what is amusing me is just a concept/abstraction.

    Yes. I'm the person who laughs randomly to herself and then can't tell you why.

    12. Immediate reality tends to bore me. I escape into fantasy regularly.

    Yes. My theme for 2011 is to do less of this and be in the moment more.

    13. Sometimes I think reality is just there to suggest the possibilities, like the raw material to (psychologically) construct something better or more interesting/inspiring.

    No. I'm a naturalist - I don't think there is anything above, behind or more than Nature. However, I see everything as a kind of poetry. We are the living embodiment of exploded stars, connected to every plant and creature biologically and to the cosmos atomically. The universe inside a person is as vast and as important as the universe outside of us. What more could you want?

    14. I hate disorganisation, chaos and being unprepared. I have aids to attempt to ‘tame’ this, e.g. spreadsheets, lists, being tidy etc.

    Yes. But I am terrible at following through. I think this is largely because of my health though.

    15. I'm more likely to do what the moment suggests as the best thing to do (if it 'suggests' anything) than stick with a pre-prepared plan, if left to my own devices (for better or worse).

    Sometimes. I am flexible but I also know I shouldn't just go with my emotions. They don't always lead to the best out come. At the same time, plans should never get in the way of spontaneity or reality.

  10. #20
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    ArcLight - didn't you start a thread about screwed-up INFJs? I couldn't see where it was (not that I looked THAT hard) - which 'archetype' did you think you were?
    I did start the thread but the content was not original to me.

    Right now I am the "Destroyer of worlds" and the "Cobra"
    I am always the "Method actor" "The Revolutionary" and "the Guru"

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...aces-infj.html

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