[MBTI General] Mind Games for Attraction?

[skylights]

I'd like to add to the OP mind games....

Rule no. 3: Break up with him before he breaks up with you.
Whoever breaks up with the person first...... wins.

omg! that reminds me, this friend of mine has this quote:

"A wise girl kisses but doesn't love, listens but doesn't believe, and leaves before she is left." - Marilyn Monroe

can you say worst tactics evar?

 

[Giggly]

omg! that reminds me, this friend of mine has this quote:

"A wise girl kisses but doesn't love, listens but doesn't believe, and leaves before she is left." - Marilyn Monroe

Sheer brilliance.

 

[Giggly]

yes, me too. it's fairly easy to tell when someone is being intentionally deceptive. i once had a guy try to go out with me because he really wanted to go out with a friend of mine. i let him treat me to lunch and over lunch discussed how he should go about approaching her

Hey, your time and advice is valuable!
You should be treated to lunch at least.

 

[Curator]

I wonder if you're very young, because this reminds me of when I was in my late teens/early twenties and sex and intimate love were still somewhat divided.

Then I grew out of that. As far as I know, people are supposed to.

If you think you'll be closer to your platonic female friends than someone they have a real, adult relationship with, I think you have another thing coming.

No offense.

I don't have surface level relationships. To me it just sounds like you're justifying being friend zoned, and you don't even understand what I or skylights am talking about.

I think you are INFP for other reasons that what I've seen in this thread, but I just voiced it now, because I felt sure. I won't bring it up any longer if it bothers you.

you are coming off as sounding extremely condescending, seriously, you say no offense, but you clearly seem to mean to offend, this is quite out of line from what ive seen from you in the past, so for the time being, I will consider it just a major misunderstanding, and hope it is that.

As for your statements, It is actually only young people ive known that seem to consider sex and imtimate love the same, where as most older people I know 40+ seem to consider them separate, so your statement on this makes little sense to me, and btw, im almost as old as you...

I say im closer to my platonic female friends than they are to their SO's because that is what they have told ME, I do not assume I am, they have all said so, which was rather shocking to me when It first started happening, it is obviously not the case with every female friend ive made, but the ones I actually consider close friends, rather than friendly Acquaintances, seem to consider us much more intimately close than they are with their SO's.

I think being able to be close intimate friends with some one without sex being involved, is far more of a "real adult relationship." than believing one needs sex to be close to some one.

I never said you did, and did not mean to imply you did (as that seems to be what you believe I did.) I was just expressing that I have been stating this entire time that i want to develop deep relationships, and that playing games for control get in the way of that, if it doesnt with you, then thats great, that is why I did not address your earlier statements saying it works for you, BECAUSE I am not YOU, I have no clue what does or does not work for you, so I did not argue that point, if it works for you, then great! it doesnt for me, I cannot be close to some one that plays control games.

From what I can tell, me and skylights have a pretty good understanding of each others views, and share extremely similar ones, I enjoy being in the friend zone, I have love and acceptance there, and sex is not important to me, so I dont see why I wouldnt enjoy being in the friend zone... its better than being in their "Danger zzone" (lol) and not being close friends with them...lol

But seriously, if you are going to clearly state things you know to obviously be offensive, dont say "no offense" afterwards, that actually bothers me more than the offensive comments,lol.

 

[Thalassa]

No I didn't mean it to be offensive, I meant it to be a realistic Te/Si statement, and only added "no offense" becase I thought it might bother your Fi.

I didn't feel a need to pussyfoot around since you were putting what appeared to be Fi judgments on the depth of other people's relationships, your assertions about people "pretending," and what I consider to be bizarre notions about seperating sex from adult emotional intimacy.

It was clearly a misunderstanding, now that you've explained that you're just describing as being your own experience...it's just that I've seen a lot of friend zoned men think they're gonna be the hero to the girl having problems with their boyfriend, and then get their heart smashed when the girl ends up choosing her boyfriend over and over again, no matter what her complaints may have been.

My experience has been different from yours, let's just leave it at that.

 

[Phantonym]

I haven't read the thread yet, so if something gets repeated, so be it.

Everything is a game, one way or another. But mind games seem like really hard work, the element of manipulation within all that seems too negative to really pay off. To me it seems that although they might be fun in the beginning, once you get involved with them it gets harder and harder to actually get out of playing games in relationships in general. Personally, I find that exhausting. Relationships are hard enough to maintain, why would I want to waste my time with something that I don't really see ending well. If you can't be authentic, I don't really see the point. Where's the respect? But there are plenty of people who thrive on mind games, so if that's their thing, go for it. Unfortunately people can get hurt that way was well.

So, with mind games, you've managed to grab their attention...what next? Presumably, if you're interested, you want them to keep interested in you as well for a considerable amount of time. Well, maybe not, some might only look for the game and lose interest as soon as they've "won".

But when do the mind games stop then? Can you really keep going with them and call the relationship healthy and fulfilling? I guess it might work for some.

Anyhow, this is how she thinks:

"Mind games work. if you are too available--you fail. If you're too easy--you fail. You have to be a challenge. You gotta show a guy that you have a life and it doesn't revolve around him. You're desirable and attractive so act like it. You call the shots so if you act like the boss you will get what you want. Girls who do whatever the guy wants them get played, girls who boss up dont. Let him miss you. You can't achieve that without playing mind games."​

So I wonder how you think of this?

I can understand the rationale behind this, but it seems like a very black and white point of view. You're either a doormat who gets played with or you're tough enough not to let anything get to you. I don't think this has to be that harsh. You can be self reliant, strong, confident and a "challenge" without resorting to desperate attempts to show it all the time and play any kind of games.

 

[ThatGirl]

yes, me too. it's fairly easy to tell when someone is being intentionally deceptive. i once had a guy try to go out with me because he really wanted to go out with a friend of mine. i let him treat me to lunch and over lunch discussed how he should go about approaching her

Holy shit, not to one up, but it gets worse the smarter the men are.

I once had a man date me for 8 months (speaking 3 hours a night on the phone) telling me he loved me.

I finally hooked up with him and the next fucking day he slept with my best friend.

When I ran into his Bf a couple months after I asked him why he did that....

The BF replied: "He knew she wanted anything you had, and she didn't want him. So he knew if he could get you, he would get her....and it worked."

I had already dropped both of them at that point, but damn, what an eye opener.




The point is, or what I learned after a while, you really should not look at all romance as being a mind game. And, truthfully....That was probably a rare instance.

 

[skylights]

Hey, your time and advice is valuable!
You should be treated to lunch at least.

i figured it was only fair. he wanted me to play his game, he got it...

plus i figure i did him a better turn in the long run.

 

[Curator]

No I didn't mean it to be offensive, I meant it to be a realistic Te/Si statement, and only added "no offense" becase I thought it might bother your Fi.

I didn't feel a need to pussyfoot around since you were putting what appeared to be Fi judgments on the depth of other people's relationships, your assertions about people "pretending," and what I consider to be bizarre notions about seperating sex from adult emotional intimacy.

It was clearly a misunderstanding, now that you've explained that you're just describing as being your own experience...it's just that I've seen a lot of friend zoned men think they're gonna be the hero to the girl having problems with their boyfriend, and then get their heart smashed when the girl ends up choosing her boyfriend over and over again, no matter what her complaints may have been.

My experience has been different from yours, let's just leave it at that.

Ah, well thats good to hear, I am glad you did not mean it to be insulting... also, I really really really REALLY dont wanna be anybodies Hero,LOL... in friend form or otherwise... I am willing to help my friends when they need it, but Ive seen the kind of dynamic you speak of, and I cannot stand it... especially when people try to force such a dynamic on me...I Dont want to be a savior 24/7 to my friends, I'll help them out when I can and I love to, but I prefer to have people in my life that are not so emotionally draining as to need a "hero" around...im more inspiring/nurturing than I am the heroic/savior type... it does hurt to see a friend, male or female, choose to be with some one abusive... but I think anyone that cares about their friends would feel that way...

I am sorry that you felt I was judging the depth of your relationships, but as I said from the beginning, I believe pretending one is something they are not, and trying to control others, will not allow for a very truly intimate relationship, as you ha ve clarified more of your statements, its obvious that is not what you meant, you seem to mean it closer to what skylights has been saying, but she communicated it in a way that I was able to understand and relate to much better, where as your original posts seemed to mean much different things to me from hers.

yes, our experiences seem to have been much much different, and thats cool with me, its interesting to learn about yours, if youd like to discuss more in depth about your beliefs on why sex and intimate love are not separate, we can do so in email if youd like so we dont clog up this thread with something even more off topic than we already are,lol... Id be interested in here more of your view.

 

[skylights]

Holy shit, not to one up, but it gets worse the smarter the men are.

I once had a man date me for 8 months (speaking 3 hours a night on the phone) telling me he loved me.

I finally hooked up with him and the next fucking day he slept with my best friend.

When I ran into his Bf a couple months after I asked him why he did that....

The BF replied: "He knew she wanted anything you had, and she didn't want him. So he knew if he could get you, he would get her....and it worked."

I had already dropped both of them at that point, but damn, what an eye opener.




The point is, or what I learned after a while, you really should not look at all romance as being a mind game. And, truthfully....That was probably a rare instance.

hot damn, that sucks. 3 hours? i'd be fooled too. i'm really sorry you had to go through that.

tell me they didn't stay together?

admittedly, the guy who treated me to lunch was a bit of a dunderhead. though oh, was he good-looking. a bad-boy type with a heart of Fe. i wanted to believe him. i did, for about half a second of bliss. then reality conked me in the head, and it only became more clear as he didn't actually pay much attention to what i was saying.

one thing i truly, truly hate is people who reach out to you when their other relationship isn't working out. exes, friends, whoever. i'm not your backup.

 

[Curator]

Holy shit, not to one up, but it gets worse the smarter the men are.

I once had a man date me for 8 months (speaking 3 hours a night on the phone) telling me he loved me.

I finally hooked up with him and the next fucking day he slept with my best friend.

When I ran into his Bf a couple months after I asked him why he did that....

The BF replied: "He knew she wanted anything you had, and she didn't want him. So he knew if he could get you, he would get her....and it worked."

I had already dropped both of them at that point, but damn, what an eye opener.




The point is, or what I learned after a while, you really should not look at all romance as being a mind game. And, truthfully....That was probably a rare instance.

Same exact thing happened to me, but she dropped me once it was obvious she was GOING to have me, and obvious to the person she really wanted...(he kind of made a thing of going after the women I wanted to be with...) me and her, a couple hours a night was average, with talks of at LEAST 10 hours once to twice a week, for just under a year...

hot damn, that sucks. 3 hours? i'd be fooled too.

admittedly, the guy who treated me to lunch was a bit of a dunderhead. though oh, was he good-looking. a bad-boy type with a heart of Fe. i wanted to believe him. i did, for about half a second of bliss. then reality conked me in the head, and it only became more clear as he didn't actually pay much attention to what i was saying.

one thing i truly, truly hate is people who reach out to you when their other relationship isn't working out. exes, friends, whoever. i'm not your backup.

I strongly dislike that too... im not gonna be anybodies back up plan,lol.

 

[ThatGirl]

hot damn, that sucks. 3 hours? i'd be fooled too. i'm really sorry you had to go through that.

tell me they didn't stay together?

Lol, nope.

She dumped him because he had "ugly boots". Days later.

I met up with her a while later (big mistake but we were bffs for over 12 years). She claimed to not remember him. Lmao.

People are crazy.

Anyway not trying to derail the thread, just saying mind games and romance shouldn't be put in the same category.

 

[Lauren]

and that's my point exactly. i think some of what we're calling a game actually isn't a game, but delicate relational patterns. i think much of what the girl in crescent's OP is referring to actually isn't a game in the sense of jerking someone around. so many people like to say no mind games, but where do we draw the line? when does acting like you do have some control over the situation become fakery, when the nature of human relationships is that the other person is giving you some control? isn't it actually more fake to act like you don't? all the girl in the OP is saying, is be the attractive and independent person that you are, and don't openly fork control over to the other person, even if your emotions are long gone. because if they're receptive, then you have some control too.



where is the line, though? i don't even trust someone i've been in a relationship with for several months to tell them the full extent of my feelings - i've learned from relationships past that some feelings come and go and really, for the sake of both people, need not be shared. not all feelings are who i am, after all, or what i want in the longterm. sometimes i do not know why i feel as i do, or what it means. i don't always want to share those things with someone else. often i am glad in retrospect that i did not.

i don't know. i don't want to come off superficial or manipulative, but i also have a hard time seeing a hard and fast line of where certain behaviors are manipulative and others are not. i think a lot of it just boils down to intention. are you trying to control someone for the sake of your own power and enjoyment, or are you trying to set up the right conditions to foster the growth of a relationship to benefit both yourself and the other person? power struggles are something i stay away from, but i can't blame anyone for trying to tweak circumstances towards their favor. relationships themselves involve a delicate balance of self-control and self-revealing. to initiate a relationship, perhaps even more so.

That delicate balance of self-control and self-revealing, so true. If a man obviously likes me and is attracted to me and I feel the same, I don't try to keep my feelings to myself. I won't say them directly right away because that would make the other person uncomfortable. I'll show them instead. As a woman, I find the game of "you must appear disinterested" to attract him, not my style at all. I can't fake it. A male family member recently told me that men love to chase or "cross the water" to a woman but it's not the other way around. It may be true that the person who loves the least has the control but I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I was in control because I didn't love the person as much. I have a hard time not showing someone I care when I really do and I know they have some feelings for me as well. If he's not attracted, I'll walk away immediately. What I've found is deadly for me is someone who shows interest and once I reciprocate, continues to show they like me and desire me. I'm hooked at that point and will show them or tell them that I'd like to further things but in a subtle way, as in asking them to dinner, etc. If the person then begins a push-pull, I'll become miserable if this goes on too long. I've never known how to play nor do I really desire to play the games that I know most women play (and play well). I know that appearing aloof and uncaring probably does work but eventually, if you get together, you'll want to be vulnerable and open up. But if you distrust the person to the degree that you had to pretend you didn't like them to "catch" them, what have you really "caught?" In other words, what kind of relationship will you have if it's not based on honesty or you fear showing your true self?

 

[Lauren]

mm, yes, i considered e9 for a while because of that idea of "losing oneself" with another person, because i adapt a good deal. later when i discovered the instinctual stackings i realized it was an effect of sx, being that e9 does not really fit me.

i suppose i have toed this line before - of learning someone is interested in ______, then reading up on _____ so that i can converse with them fluidly should it become pertinent. i would not tell them that i learned about it just for them. but i would not lie about my expertise, that only creates embarrassment later. beginning, i am quite picky about what i choose to share, and how i choose to share it.



i have found this as well at times. i think the lack of sex even being on the table as a possibility can create a vacuum for greater emotional depth and trust. sex can be a puzzle piece or a distraction, depending.

The couple of times that I became friends with someone before we realized we were attracted did create that emotional depth and trust and the foundation for a true friendship. So true. Then when we realized we were attracted as well, it became romantic (obviously) and intense. But having that friendship initially helps when things become more confused as a result of a sexual attraction. You remember that you like the person and whether or not you get together physically, you'll still like and care for them.

 

[Litvyak]

"Mind games work. if you are too available--you fail. If you're too easy--you fail. You have to be a challenge. You gotta show a guy that you have a life and it doesn't revolve around him. You're desirable and attractive so act like it. You call the shots so if you act like the boss you will get what you want. Girls who do whatever the guy wants them get played, girls who boss up dont. Let him miss you. You can't achieve that without playing mind games."​

Trickery evokes trickery. Less tactics, more perception.
Gaming itself is great, to an extent, but only for the purpose of increasing your enjoyment in the moment. Do not play to achieve a preferred outcome other than that.

 

[King sns]

I had an interesting discussion with a friend and she's a firm believer of using mind games to attract attention from men.

Though I am sure that all of us sort of play some sort of minor deceptive games a little here and there, but as for me I only use it to help me getting out of troubles, such as unwanted attention or responsibility (like work politics). I'll never use it for the sake of grabbing someone's attention if I'm deeply interested in them.




Anyhow, this is how she thinks:

"Mind games work. if you are too available--you fail. If you're too easy--you fail. You have to be a challenge. You gotta show a guy that you have a life and it doesn't revolve around him. You're desirable and attractive so act like it. You call the shots so if you act like the boss you will get what you want. Girls who do whatever the guy wants them get played, girls who boss up dont. Let him miss you. You can't achieve that without playing mind games."​

So I wonder how you think of this?

Most smart, eligible candidates know when you are playing mind games. The trick to attracting a guy is to have a life and not be too available because your life is full of other stuff. Not to pretend that way. Some people may be fooled into being with you with the mind game, but the truth will come out in the end. People can tell when someone's not being themselves.

I personally play mind games by accident. It's in my nature and also stems from baggage. Hurting people hurt people. Being aware of this helps me to stop.

 

[King sns]

I think this is similar to something I was discussing in my roles thread.

In terms of dating, I'm not very successful...not that I try much. But I like the simple and direct asking what people are interested in or not. Probably I'd be much more successful if I could "play games", depending upon your definition of success.

I guess I have other goals, since "dating" may not really be the goal much anymore:

(1.) Attempt to understand
(2.) Be kind or do no harm
(3.) Help them if you can, or try to leave them better than you found them.

This is such a pure and unusual way (nowadays) to approach relationships. It's actually quite brave as well. You may not be a magnet for men(?) (you're a female?) by acting this way, but then at the end of the day, you save time by ending up with someone really perfect for you.

 

[Spamtar]

IAnyhow, this is how she thinks:

"Mind games work. if you are too available--you fail. If you're too easy--you fail. You have to be a challenge. You gotta show a guy that you have a life and it doesn't revolve around him. You're desirable and attractive so act like it. You call the shots so if you act like the boss you will get what you want. Girls who do whatever the guy wants them get played, girls who boss up dont. Let him miss you. You can't achieve that without playing mind games."​

So I wonder how you think of this?

That doesn't seem like mind games to me but rather deciding to value oneself as "the Prize" vs a demonstration of someone who has low self esteem (most people).

Choose a good label for when you start. I find that attitude to be attractive sometimes as long as its not overdone (i.e. self centered/boring/inconsiderate/selfish)

 

[kyuuei]

Replace "Mind games" and the "I need to show who I really am" with "be." Lets see what happens.

if you are too available--you fail. If you're too easy--you fail. You should to be a challenge. You have a life and it doesn't revolve around him. You're desirable and attractive so act like it. You call the shots so if you're the boss of what you want than you will get what you want. Girls do whatever the guy wants them to, women dont. Let him miss you. You can't achieve that without being.

All of the qualities of "mind games" to her are real qualities of a woman to me. Why act like that, when you can just genuinely be that? Or I suppose, to 'act' for her case is to just 'showcase' her qualities. I don't really see too much of a problem with it, either way.. unless it is all an act and the girl is acting like a woman while still really being a girl. False advertisement has been the doom of many a relationship.

 

[Spamtar]

Or I suppose, to 'act' for her case is to just 'showcase' her qualities.

I like this distinction. Thumbs up!

Too many people are lame and boring simply because they choose to be. Often they say they want to be genuine but in reality they are lazy and scared. Scarcity creates value although too much will starve a relationship/interaction. Although rules of thumb are helpfully it also helps to have a basic understanding of the person/type of person, you are wishing to attract Me, I find there is a happy balance. Its fun being an artist and making yourself/the relationship, the artwork.