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  1. #51
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Yeah, well, you are right, it is a huge demand for someone to answer to something you have thought through in your mind for some time, and in most other cases people are subtle like that without any idea of deception. Say, you need to tell really bad news to someone and you are really concerned about how they will handle it. So, you soften it up. It isn't a game really, it is compassion.
    and that's my point exactly. i think some of what we're calling a game actually isn't a game, but delicate relational patterns. i think much of what the girl in crescent's OP is referring to actually isn't a game in the sense of jerking someone around. so many people like to say no mind games, but where do we draw the line? when does acting like you do have some control over the situation become fakery, when the nature of human relationships is that the other person is giving you some control? isn't it actually more fake to act like you don't? all the girl in the OP is saying, is be the attractive and independent person that you are, and don't openly fork control over to the other person, even if your emotions are long gone. because if they're receptive, then you have some control too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curator
    by refusing to play it does not mean that you tell them automatically every little thing you think and feel, but you DO if they are interested in it, you dont lie about your feelings, you dont hold anything back when honesty is asked for, but it doesnt mean you have to gush all over everyone, and try to make THEM responsible for YOUR feelings...
    where is the line, though? i don't even trust someone i've been in a relationship with for several months to tell them the full extent of my feelings - i've learned from relationships past that some feelings come and go and really, for the sake of both people, need not be shared. not all feelings are who i am, after all, or what i want in the longterm. sometimes i do not know why i feel as i do, or what it means. i don't always want to share those things with someone else. often i am glad in retrospect that i did not.

    i don't know. i don't want to come off superficial or manipulative, but i also have a hard time seeing a hard and fast line of where certain behaviors are manipulative and others are not. i think a lot of it just boils down to intention. are you trying to control someone for the sake of your own power and enjoyment, or are you trying to set up the right conditions to foster the growth of a relationship to benefit both yourself and the other person? power struggles are something i stay away from, but i can't blame anyone for trying to tweak circumstances towards their favor. relationships themselves involve a delicate balance of self-control and self-revealing. to initiate a relationship, perhaps even more so.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curator View Post
    There are people who refuse to play these silly pointless games, both in relationships, and many of the social ones as well, they are rare, and I agree that MOST who say they dont, actually do, and quite heavily I might add, but there are still those who do not, considering how unsuccessful it usually is, I dont think it can be considered part of the game, because the game is about benefiting ones self, getting what YOU want, and not playing mind games,has the opposite effect more often than not... and usually ends up with me being permanently friend zoned, being considered the best friend, but never anything more... im strangely ok with that
    You know the reason you are "strangely ok with that" is because it is the way you actually do get what you want. Ok, so you didn't get that girl you wanted because she friend zoned you. If you did get her by gaming your way in, you would later on find out it's not working (because she just liked your game face) and get dumped. Ok, you didn't get the job you applied for because you didn't have the game face. If you got the job, you would have had to keep on the game face. See? It is exactly what you want. Just as I told earlier, it isn't for everyone, because there are things that seem like sacrifices, but they really are not because otherwise you would sacrifice yourself.

  3. #53
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This is sometimes the case, I agree, but sometimes a person really is in love (or in like) and is just trying to protect themselves and acting in a socially strategic way. It doesn't necessarily always include unrequited love...but I do see examples of the type of game playing you're talking about...I think of that being more like PUA or using people, which is a really sad and despicable level of game playing, and I do not advocate that level of game playing.

    I think there are levels.
    I guess some people can pretend that they aren't in love. I couldn't.

    But apparently I need to learn how to do that????

    Oh, and it's not just PUA's who do that. Sometimes it's people who want to experience what it's like to be loved by someone but are really scared of being vulnerable and loving someone in return.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i think a lot of it just boils down to intention. are you trying to control someone for the sake of your own power and enjoyment, or are you trying to set up the right conditions to foster the growth of a relationship? power struggles are something i stay away from, but i can't blame anyone for trying to tweak circumstances towards their favor. relationships themselves involve a delicate balance of self-control and self-revealing. to initiate a relationship, perhaps even more so.
    This.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla
    It is exactly what you want. Just as I told earlier, it isn't for everyone, because there are things that seem like sacrifices, but they really are not because otherwise you would sacrifice yourself.
    this can certainly be true. though, of course, there are times when you pick a strategy you think would be best, and you lose, but having chosen the other path would not have been a forfeit of oneself - just a different strategy.

    perhaps some of our feelings on mind games have to do with the extent to which we feel we can extend ourselves into certain roles and behaviors without losing our selves along the way.

  6. #56
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    where is the line, though? i don't even trust someone i've been in a relationship with for several months to tell them the full extent of my feelings - i've learned from relationships past that some feelings come and go and really, for the sake of both people, need not be shared. not all feelings are who i am, after all, or what i want in the longterm. sometimes i do not know why i feel as i do, or what it means. i don't always want to share those things with someone else, either.

    i don't know. i don't want to come off superficial or manipulative, but i also have a hard time seeing a hard and fast line of where certain behaviors are manipulative and others are not. i think a lot of it just boils down to intention. are you trying to control someone for the sake of your own power and enjoyment, or are you trying to set up the right conditions to foster the growth of a relationship? power struggles are something i stay away from, but i can't blame anyone for trying to tweak circumstances towards their favor. relationships themselves involve a delicate balance of self-control and self-revealing. to initiate a relationship, perhaps even more so.
    that is my point, its not a game to not feel comfortable sharing everything, it becomes a game when its done specifically to control another person and to mis-represent yourself to them to seem more attractive and to be in control of the relationship, id you dont feel comfortable sharing everything, thats fine, and I understand that, I dont feel comfortable sharing everything either, but I will not lie to them, and will not try and control them, and Id just like similar consideration from some one I am involved with... I think a lot of people are ignoring the original post and what it was asking for, and just responding to others misunderstanding of what it was asking about, relationship dynamics is one thing, setting up defined and equal rolls in a relationship is one thing, trying to control and manipulate another human being so one feels more comfortable, is another thing entirely... and that is the difference between a Mind game, and just normal dynamics between two open individuals... (open as in available for them to learn about the REAL you, vs just a facade one put up.)
    You are not powerless, you just need to accept your power for what it is, a part of the whole, no one man can save the world, but you can be a light to those who envelope themselves in darkness, The candle that sparks the inferno.

  7. #57
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curator View Post
    and heres the issue, what you are describing is NOT a lack of games, or honest open-ness, its ANOTHER type of game, the kind of person that uses being "open" as a form of control, it is not the same as being open and honest, because the person is not taking responsibility for their own feelings, they are pushing them on to YOU... refusing to play mind games is much different, by refusing to play it does not mean that you tell them automatically every little thing you think and feel, but you DO if they are interested in it, you dont lie about your feelings, you dont hold anything back when honesty is asked for, but it doesnt mean you have to gush all over everyone, and try to make THEM responsible for YOUR feelings... trying to force somebody else to take responsibility for what YOU feel is just as much a part of the mind games as any of the others, and its one a lot of people play on themselves as well...
    so you wait for someone to ask you how you feel about them first?
    that doesn't sound right to me.
    that sounds like a situation destined for frustration and friend-zoning because no one would take the first leap.

  8. #58
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    so you wait for someone to ask you how you feel about them first?
    that doesn't sound right to me.
    that sounds like a situation destined for frustration and friend-zoning because no one would take the first leap.
    People dont always ask with words, they make their interest known, I make mine known, and the sharing commences... even the most open people are often nervous about sharing till they are sure the other is interested in learning, its not a game to test the waters be4 jumping in.
    You are not powerless, you just need to accept your power for what it is, a part of the whole, no one man can save the world, but you can be a light to those who envelope themselves in darkness, The candle that sparks the inferno.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    perhaps some of our feelings on mind games have to do with the extent to which we feel we can extend ourselves into certain roles and behaviors without losing our selves along the way.
    Yeah, that makes sense. As a whole I feel painful uneasiness about roles that are forced upon me by outward pressure.

  10. #60
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curator View Post
    it becomes a game when its done specifically to control another person and to mis-represent yourself to them to seem more attractive and to be in control of the relationship
    yeah, i agree with that totally

    I think a lot of people are ignoring the original post and what it was asking for, and just responding to others misunderstanding of what it was asking about, relationship dynamics is one thing, setting up defined and equal rolls in a relationship is one thing, trying to control and manipulate another human being so one feels more comfortable, is another thing entirely... and that is the difference between a Mind game, and just normal dynamics between two open individuals... (open as in available for them to learn about the REAL you, vs just a facade one put up.)
    yeah.

    though i still am not convinced that the example in the OP is actually a good example of playing mind games, at least not the eeeevil kind we're talking about. calling the shots doesn't necessarily mean controlling the other person. the way i'm reading it, it sounds more like taking charge of yourself instead of allowing yourself to revolve around a love interest. it's more like a mind game with yourself, if anything! the parts that sound like they edge on disingenuousness are "showing" your life and "acting like the boss". it still sounds like she means the boss of yourself more than the boss of the couple. i would not mind someone interested in me adopting this strategy, as long as they don't plan to boss me around - in which case i'd be giving them the boot anyway.

    though perhaps that is a matter of interpretation.

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