[MBTI General] Feeling Like You've Let NFPs Down

[Thalassa]

I adjust to whom I'm talking to IRL. I'm quite expert at it, and it's a matter of playing E3 roles, I think, as I've recently discovered. I play those roles because it's practical (Te) and it has some value to me (Fi).

But when I'm being myself, I flat out refuse, unless I love the person or have a reason to care.

 

[Thalassa]

Also, I pride myself on not taking any shit, and so do my family members, I mean they expect that of me as well. That's an Fi value.

 

[Emectar]

That totally resonates with me, though at least from my point of view, it's nothing the INTJ did, and more of my own problem.

for whatever reason, (ive had this happen at different points in my life with 3 different intjs now), i often find myself in total admiration of INTJs i meet.
As this goes on and on, i look up to them more and more, and all of a sudden, i get something of a reality check and realize that as awesome as they are, i've put them on a pedastal and thought of them way too highly. And then i sort of withdraw, ashamed that i got so excited without quite understanding them first.

 

[Amargith]

^ that happens to me more with fellow NFPs..I feel so understood at first that the initial click tempts me to make assumptions on how things will progress, only to disappoint me

 

[Uytuun]

Meh, your choice, I've found it to be adorable. I also test their limits for intensity by deliberatly going over the line, only to flake on them, and return while bantering about. It seems to break the tension and allows them to adjust to it and allows me to gauge which are hard lines which I'll respect and which ones are open to expansion...

Honestly, I find that line of thinking a little offensive...in the sense that I guess I get the impression that it requires the INTJ to be a little emotionally retarded and it puts you in a position that both caters to them excessively and controls them.

That totally resonates with me, though at least from my point of view, it's nothing the INTJ did, and more of my own problem.

for whatever reason, (ive had this happen at different points in my life with 3 different intjs now), i often find myself in total admiration of INTJs i meet.
As this goes on and on, i look up to them more and more, and all of a sudden, i get something of a reality check and realize that as awesome as they are, i've put them on a pedastal and thought of them way too highly. And then i sort of withdraw, ashamed that i got so excited without quite understanding them first.

Interesting - it would explain why they reacted that way with regard to me when they remain (perhaps more superficially) connected to other people. I do get the impression that the push was proportional to the initial pull.

I can relate to the being ashamed about getting excited about a person who then turns out a little different than expected. Wonder if these relationships can be healed (or images synchronised) once the INTJ has come crashing down from the pedestal.

 

[Amargith]

Honestly, I find that line of thinking a little offensive...in the sense that I guess I get the impression that it requires the INTJ to be a little emotionally retarded and it puts you in a position that both caters to them excessively and controls them.

I don't consider it emotionally retarded, I consider it having different preferences. And it's something I find myself doing in order to figure out what the right comfort level for everyone involved is, so we can relax and enjoy each other instead of going back and forward being butthurt and misunderstanding each others intentions. I enjoy a lot of intensity, but I've found many do not. So I check, before I go there.

 

[Thalassa]

Honestly, I find that line of thinking a little offensive...in the sense that I guess I get the impression that it requires the INTJ to be a little emotionally retarded and it puts you in a position that both caters to them excessively and controls them.

I agree, and to some extent it's true. That's what I meant when I said when I witness what she does it looks like Fe "handling" or feels like manipulation or ass-kissing to me, because the way that NTJs fall for it is almost pathetic. They're like "ow, you're so nice!" And she is nice...but they're being manipulated, it reminds me of dogs being led around by a bone. It gives me kind of a nauseated feeling, especially since they're adults, and often behaving badly when she feels a need to do this, so I feel like picking up a mirror and showing them reality. That's what Fi means to me. Getting real.

Thing is, they don't really want you to be real, they want you to submit to their desires. Yes/no? Do you prefer a woman who challenges you or one who agrees with you or who is more pliant?

I've seen numerous INTJs admit things like they'd rather be with an ISFP who is less inclined to argue with them, or even flat out declare that women should be demure.

She's just giving you guys what she thinks you want (and it appears to be the case!), but to me, it makes my skin crawl.

Interesting - it would explain why they reacted that way with regard to me when they remain (perhaps more superficially) connected to other people. I do get the impression that the push was proportional to the initial pull.

I can relate to the being ashamed about getting excited about a person who then turns out a little different than expected. Wonder if these relationships can be healed (or images synchronised) once the INTJ has come crashing down from the pedestal.

I've had troubles with INTJs putting me on a pedastal as well, and yes they, collectively, have disappointed my idealized image of them.

Also, it's really an individual thing...you know, in the end, all NTJs and NFPs are not the same, there are just generalizations based upon group observations of the types.

 

[rav3n]

It's kind of unfair to crap all over Satine. Being authentic doesn't mean you have to bludgeon people with every little Fi value, at every given time. In many ways, that's being inauthentic since it's less about Fi and more about your dramatic emotions of the moment. Banter is more fun for many.

 

[Amargith]

I agree, and to some extent it's true. That's what I meant when I said when I witness what she does it looks like Fe "handling" or feels like manipulation or ass-kissing to me, because the way that NTJs fall for it is almost pathetic. They're like "ow, you're so nice!" And she is nice...but they're being manipulated, it reminds me of dogs being led around by a bone. It gives me kind of a nauseated feeling, especially since they're adults, and often behaving badly when she feels a need to do this, so I feel like picking up a mirror and showing them reality. That's what Fi means to me. Getting real.

Thing is, they don't really want you to be real, they want you to submit to their desires. Yes/no? Do you prefer a woman who challenges you or one who agrees with you or who is more pliant?

I've seen numerous INTJs admit things like they'd rather be with an ISFP who is less inclined to argue with them, or even flat out declare that women should be demure.

She's just giving you guys what she thinks you want (and it appears to be the case!), but to me, it makes my skin crawl.





I've had troubles with INTJs putting me on a pedastal as well, and yes they, collectively, have disappointed my idealized image of them.

Also, it's really an individual thing...you know, in the end, all NTJs and NFPs are not the same, there are just generalizations based upon group observations of the types.

Hold up, don't even dare to go there. I understand that you're having trouble visualizing how it works, but that doesn't mean you get to judge it right off the bat. Just coz I don't go shooting everyone in sight who holds different values than me and who isn't actually being what you consider 'respectful' about it doesn't mean that i am pliant and manipulative.

Since when is it wrong to give someone the space to be themselves instead of breathing down their necks? To give them the benefit of the doubt and try to see where they're coming from, even if they're being crude in their way of behaving. I firmly believe people don't do things for no reason and unless I know that reason, I'm not passing judgment coz I'm lacking info. If someone with their behavior comes too close to actually hurting one of my values, I *recognize* that this is my own responsibility to tend to and i will put up a wall out of protection, but it is their right to believe what they want and I'm not about to go whack them over the head about what's *right* when I don't even have all the info. Jumping to conclusions much??

Also I've found that when I listen to what they're saying, despite the way in which it's communicated (as btw, I'm doing right now with you, coz you are in fact being very offensive imo though I understand where you're coming from), they more often than not are way more open to what *I* have to say on the issue. It's called creating goodwill and enhancing communication. And once I feel Ive got a good handle on what the situation is and I feel they do in fact need a mirror held in front of them, I will. Especially if I know them and hold them in high regard. Ask around. I've been called an enneagram 8 recently coz of that. I don't mince words once I do reach my final conclusion. I just take my jolly time to get there. I don't see nothing submissive, manipulative or pliant about that. So I'd appreciate you not dissing my style while I don't diss yours, coz let me be clear, I don't find yours particularly productive either but I can see the value in it.

Also keep in mind that you don't get to see the full extent of my interactions with someone. I do have the discretion to actually pull someone aside, in private when I decide to uphold a mirror and get frank with them (this right now is an exception for me, in fact), unless they specifically ask for it in public, as doing so in public often becomes more like a circus act instead of about what's in that mirror. So you may witness something on the forums and get a partial impression of that, without getting the full picture. Jumping to conclusion and therefore spewing inaccurate and crude generalizations about my interactions is *not* appreciated.

It's kind of unfair to crap all over Satine. Being authentic doesn't mean you have to bludgeon people with every little Fi value, at every given time. In many ways, that's being inauthentic since it's less about Fi and more about your dramatic emotions of the moment. Banter is more fun for many.

Thanks

 

[Nomorenames]

I end up feeling like that a lot with NFPs. Both in romantic situations and in friendship there seems to be something, you have an obvious attraction or you grow closer and then it just sort of seems to stop - there is no explanation, they just start distancing themselves. To me it feels like I've done something to let them down somehow (and I can think of one concrete thing that might have caused one of them to back off in hindsight and taking idiosyncratic Fi into account, but maybe that wasn't even it). It's possible that they just started to forget about me, but I don't think that's it, because you don't just not respond to people you've merely forgotten about when they engage you again, right?

Does that resonate with the NFPs on here? Insights?

Here's another possibility. The xNFP gave a level of attention and energy to you that is untenable for very long. In order to not disappoint you and ensure the same quality of interaction, they may need to recharge their batteries.

Or they may be disappointed and purposefully distancing themselves so you'd get the hint. Who gets those nfps jerks, really?

 

[Thalassa]

It's kind of unfair to crap all over Satine. Being authentic doesn't mean you have to bludgeon people with every little Fi value, at every given time. In many ways, that's being inauthentic since it's less about Fi and more about your dramatic emotions of the moment. Banter is more fun for many.

No one is crapping on her, but I see it for what it really is, and it annoys me...and many other people on this forum.

It annoys some people just as much as Fi opinions bother you...which is hilarious since you guys bludgeon people all of the time, like in that one thread the other night the way you were acting, I wasn't gonna handle you with kid gloves...you didn't deserve it. You deserved to be called out on what you were doing.

I don't think babysitting emotionally immature NTJs facilitates their growth, it just keeps them stunted and thinking their pompous way of being toward others is A-OK.

I mean, like I said, I'm totally indulgent with someone I actually love, but not with random people on-line, I think it's undesirable to do so.

It's just my opinion, just like you have yours.

 

[Amargith]

No one is crapping on her, but I see it for what it really is, and it annoys me...and many other people on this forum.

Then you need your eyesight examined and learn to stop jumping to conclusions, pronto.

 

[rav3n]

No one is crapping on her, but I see it for what it really is, and it annoys me...and many other people on this forum.

It annoys some people just as much as Fi opinions bother you...which is hilarious since you guys bludgeon people all of the time, like in that one thread the other night the way you were acting, I wasn't gonna handle you with kid gloves...you didn't deserve it. You deserved to be called out on what you were doing.

I don't think babysitting emotionally immature NTJs facilitates their growth, it just keeps them stunted and thinking their pompous way of being toward others is A-OK.

I mean, like I said, I'm totally indulgent with someone I actually love, but not with random people on-line, I think it's undesirable to do so.

It's just my opinion, just like you have yours.

Well no doubt, tact isn't your thing. But you're confusing Fi with emotions. Fi's the decision-maker that sources from values. Jumping everyone's hiney with every post and calling it a Fi value is NOT authentic. It's a lack of emotional discipline and immaturity.

 

[Thalassa]

Well no doubt, tact isn't your thing. But you're confusing Fi with emotions. Fi's the decision-maker that sources from values. Jumping everyone's hiney with every post and calling it a Fi value is NOT authentic. It's a lack of emotional discipline and immaturity.

But I don't do that with every post. Most of my posts are silly, light, conversational, or arguing about ideas.

I'm just saying things that many people have also said to me in vent and in reps, it's not like i'm alone here.

It's not immaturity - it's just telling the truth. Some people don't like truth. That's why many people also don't like certain other members of this forum.

It's hilarious that you call me immature after your S bashing fest the other day. Absolutely priceless.

This is why I love NTJs.

 

[rav3n]

But I don't do that with every post. Most of my posts are silly, light, conversational, or arguing about ideas.

I'm just saying things that many people have also said to me in vent and in reps, it's not like i'm alone here.

It's not immaturity - it's just telling the truth. Some people don't like truth. That's why many people also don't like certain other members of this forum.

It's hilarious that you call me immature after your S bashing fest the other day. Absolutely priceless.

This is why I love NTJs.

Nowhere am I defending my own behaviour. But it appears you need to defend yours by dragging out anything you possibly can about someone else. Now, as far as other Vent members are concerned, that's their business and what's expressed on Vent, should be kept confidential between yourselves. This also includes VM, PM or any other confidences discussed. Being authentic doesn't mean extroverting other people's gossip.

And really, I don't allow hearsay to affect my opinion. I befriend who I want and derive opinions on my own.

 

[Oberon]

Well no doubt, tact isn't your thing.

Quick, someone STRIKE!

...the irony's hot...

 

[Amargith]

It's time to give Uytuun his her thread back. I'm out.

 

[Thalassa]

I never said not to befriend anyone, and you missed my point entirely - I don't have a problem with Satine. This isn't about Satine...it's about me finding an almost visceral disgust with her style of handling NTs, specificaly, just as you (and others) are apparently disgusted by my blunt truth-telling.

Let it be. We can all agree to disagree.

I didn't name names, quote anyone, or do anything to smear anyone or replicate any private information. I was just suggesting that it wasn't just my crazy single-minded interpretation of events, it looked that way to others too, so sometimes when you see me speak out it's not just because of "emotional lack of self-control" it's actually because I've collected enough evidence over time to believe it's worth talking about.

 

[rav3n]

Quick, someone STRIKE!

...the irony's hot...

Why, I don't purport to tact? We're talking about Marm.

It's time to give Uytuun his thread back. I'm out.

Agreed. My apologies to Uytuun for thread-jacking.

 

[Thalassa]

Why, I don't purport to tact? We're talking about Marm.

And he was pointing out that it was the pot calling the kettle black.

Which is what I (and Satine) were referring to many posts ago about NTJs dishing it out but not being able to take it.