[NF] NFs are you spiritual?

[Synapse]

This CLEARLY falls under the "spiritual" label for the purposes of this poll. Well at least that's my opinion and assessment.

Hahah yeah I suppose.

 

[Scott N Denver]

I don't know if that applies to everyone though. Or at least, not something to force too quickly. The concept of MBTI itself would paint a different picture (whether it's valid or not is up to you). Extroverts are apparently better off externalizing, for example. They restore themselves better that way. And like the saying goes, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It's all in the order of functions. An ESFP who cuts themselves off (or worse, gets cut off), will go more towards the direction of Fi. Except their dominant can't help thinking of things they're missing. They would either resent it or get antsy. It's a rough start for them to be that way. So now you have an unhappy person right from the beginning. If they have no choice, they'll be left alone thinking of the state of their lives and relationships.. Which is good in small doses, but the prolonged introversion of Fi would go hand in hand with the introverted perception of inferior Ni. Instead of healthy "spiritual awakenings", it's downright kooky. Their Ni is paranoid. They may wonder why they're even alone.. why no one's calling them, why this or that experience never worked out, why people do this to them, etc.. And there's no feedback or grounding in reality (Se and Te), so they will start coming up with all kinds of weird reasons for why. They may even invent a god who's sticking with them in this hell. Whatever happens, it's not pretty. What they really needed for a full life was actually Se. With little doses of introspection. Point being, that's their point of wisdom and connection. Not sitting down and reading this message board, like I'm doing.

Yoga, and other things, make assertions about what happens to us during our physical sleep states. In essence, Synapse is [I believe] referring to whether we, in essence, leak certain things that it behooves us not to leak, or whether those things remain self-contained within our "system" and serve us more effectively. Yoga has much to say on this point, and in fact one of the 8 major limbs of Patanjali's Yoga, pratyahara, is focused on this exact topic of whether certain "efforts" or "energies" "leak" outwards or stay inside. These energies should NOT be interpreted as MBTI E by any means.

Synapse, was that a fair response and explanation?

 

[KDude]

Fair enough. I was just thinking that some modes could be difficult (or at least need to be tailored) for different types. I wasn't sure what he was specifically referring to

 

[NegativeZero]

Sometimes I am an ardent proponent of naturalism, other times I feel it to be entirely incoherent. I walk a narrow line of faith these days, and I couldn't tell you where my beliefs are going to end up. If I had to label myself something, I'm a skeptic above all.

 

[Synapse]

Kind of, MBTI is a system of preferences, dimensional. People are viewing reality and spirituality in a dimensional way without layers. Hence spirit is seen like a flat surface, a partial experience rather than a whole experience. For how can trust happen when the responsibility to connect with personal source energy, self spirit, self belief is taken away and the responsibility is given to another being like a God entity whether humanistic interpretation and or other being(s)? Sounds strange to me that society is gullible in taking literature, other peoples experiences at face value without establishing a confirmation with their self/spirit first. Instead great confusion, misinterpretation what other people tells them it should be like, what other literature tells them what spirit should be like, what other beliefs tell them what truth should be like rather than listening to their own truth, what their self belief is.

Which comes to energy. Energy is a curiosity I’ve come to understand recently and is far more than it appears. I’ve always know, its just that since last October what I would call my spirit became switched on. This could become esoteric alternative and technical.

Think of what quantum physics tries to do with the double slit experiment where they have discovered that having an observable object affects the waves of particles and the way they behave. And I wondered why this seems that surprising. Of course when energy that isn’t interactive and observable will affect the outcome of those energies that are moving. If we take it into context with people then we all have an electromagnetic fields around our heart and bodies and an organization called heartmath has shown this. Which means that we are energy, and we have energy fields around us, which stands to reason that besides electromagnetic fields generated from our heart centers there would be other kinds of energies like emotional energy, thought energy, spirit energies like and auras and such which is composed of all of them. Layers of energy that we send out, you know the adage you are what you eat, you are what you think right?

Well its true, the more attuned and aware you become of your intuitive faculties the more your body tells you which foods lower your vibrational energies and which raise your vibrational energies. And this is why people react to processed foods, the chemicals and additives lower the vibration of a persons energy and allergies start. While fresh unprocessed food raises a persons vibrational energy. You feel healthier, you gain more nutrition, you are more clearer in thought and emotions and spirit strangely.

And this in turn reflects how our emotions and thoughts function. Or rather how we interpret energy and send out our intentions into, we’ll call it the universe. While what this is, is another quantum physics term called quantum entanglement where its been recently discovered that you can communicate at distance instantly without the speed of light which affects the other. Now if we take this concept further and think of DNA as communication gateways which sounds strange to say it, while science considers anything other than the double helix, the rest of the strands as junk or silent DNA. In recent times this too has been revised, that yes those previously thought silent DNA are more than merely silent. Well they are like a frequency I would call it, an attunement to our vibration energy, our emotional and thought fields or as some call them auras. And the opening and closing of the chakras or as I’ve come to view them centers aligning with our endocrine system in positive and negative polarities of health without proper balance.

Which means that we all have an electromagnetic energy field and those who are perceptive enough, intuitive enough, sensitive enough, empathic enough etc are able to notice the subtle differences. Indeed the auras, whether from sight, feeling or sensing or other. You know like you can walk into a room an hour later and get this clammy feeling, like the energy is different. While an hour before there was an all out argument war and you can feel the resonance, the vibration of the energy without understanding, that is part of the reason. Emotions and thoughts carry energy. And I don’t know if you’ve heard of The Secret, which is a partial truth and doesn’t properly work. But it’s the same effect, intention carries forward, what we think do, say, act and create comes back to us. Which means intentions are frequencies that aren’t merely energies of frequencies and signals we send out into the world that comes back to us from synchronicities we are oblivious to but more, they are communication gateways with our DNA. Just a theory mind, and that is part of the reason we are needing the theta, alpha sleeping, the deep sleep that generates communications and dreamings in our thought field and emotional field. Not only to restore our physical bodies but also to communicate with our self, our spirit, our energy if that makes sense.

And our energy may be scattered, and if our bodies, every cell in our body dies and renews, regrows after a 7-10year cycle which it does. Then imagine what our consciousness does and why it doesn’t do the same, why our thoughts feel eternal almost without needing to regrow and renew the same way. Its because we are energy created to fit into our bodies. And that’s where the term soul and spirit would originate from, that we have them, they are energies. And those energies are on a continuum I would say of our developing consciousness that we carry forward those past life or past experiences and like a switching are focusing only on this awareness without understanding our history beyond this consciousness. And its my understanding that while we sleep we communicate with our spirit our subconscious and whatever positive or negative intentions that are created out there in our waking world is affected what is interpreted in our dreamings and vice versa on some level. And that’s where some references like merkabah, light body comes from, as being energy, light beings.

the world offers great distraction from believing in our external realities, opinions and anchors of other peoples belief systems and faiths that are misleading instead of your self belief and anchoring your energy centers, light body as it were into yourself. Which is why I know that a great many religious and spiritual philosophies are skewed, externalising reality away from ourselves. Instead of focusing on our self, identity, being how can we become and grow into ourselves, releasing our pasts.

My belief is we externalise our realities including beliefs instead of finding our own source, our own internalised intuitive spirit energies to self belief and are distracted from learning about ourselves. By giving power away to other than ourselves, other people’s versions of God and Science, how can we know ourselves truly? Tainted from the very beginning of birth when our conditioning started, hearing our parents, friends, societies and media’s untruths as our guide.

Of which I did repeat myself a bit. However I would love it if I could collaborate and invent a device that could tap into peoples consciousness and unblock them to become in alignment with themselves is the best I can describe it without sounding unscientific. Hahaha but the reality is we have epigenetic markers that are passed on generationally as we would have morphogeneic field markers that would place a collective consciousness in our storehouse of DNA. Which just means a lot of our communication pathways aren’t active with who we are on a more subconscious level and we are accessing who we are through our dreams rather than downloading ourselves completely as in reintegrating with our full capacity. It’s a bit like the g8 theory in relation to quantum physics and the meaning of life with quarks, leptons and stuff. It can be confusing, all I know is that our DNA is a communication gateway like the internet and it does more than science thinks. I personally believe that any science that we have learned isn’t new, it’s a rehash of information we knew once before. I’ve had that feeling since very young, nothing I’ve read or knew surprised me in the lest, none of the innovations or inventions. I was expecting to be in a nanotechnology age already and wrote about it in a science fiction novel too hahaha. Almost like the scientific pathways are mirrors of an intellectual origin that I can’t describe without sounding far fetched. But that’s just me and the actual information and intelligence of what we are learning is surface infrastructure to our knowing of who we are rather than examining fully how we function. Almost like we are missing the big picture and focusing on the little bits and pieces even when we are seeing the big picture it seems unfocused. Which isn’t wrong, just dimensional.

Mini rant,

 

[KDude]

It's a big mini rant You sound very different than how I perceive the outside. I don't have internalized intuition exactly. I'm not trying to retype you, but it seems much more introverted in a Ni kind of a way. I filter off the outside influences in a more.. aesthetic or moral sense. I'm not warding off influence itself. I'm not giving power away by letting it happen. I grow. Knowledge is power, to use a cliche.

 

[iwakar]

Just curious after the 'marrying atheists' thread, can we assume that the NFs on TC are generally spiritual? And despite my joke about making people join my sect in the other thread - I consider myself spiritual rather than religious.
To clarify what I mean by the cathegories in the poll:

- Religious: Follower by an organized movement, which includes some sort of dogma, common belief shared by the members, you are expected to buy all of it - not pick and choose to your own preference. Belief in higher powers of some sort.

- Spiritual: Either loosely organized, or individual practice (not organized), has the opportunity to be eclectic (pick and choose) without being considered 'wrong'. Open to the idea that there may be something bigger than us, a meaningful spiritual reality of some sort. Respects that other people may be right too. There is not ONE answer to the mystery of life, there may be multiple answers. Can also be agnostic.

- Non-spiritual: What you see is all there is. My only religion is science.

I am preoccupied with values, but I have not practiced a religion in well over a decade. I have been in a state of wonder at the universe since I was old enough to know that I was a part of one. I believe magic is the word for scientific phenomena before we begin excavating its origins, therefore real. I suspect "God" and its framework started as an idea that arrived out of a necessity that is presently passing us by... and I consider Prometheus a symbol of humankind's destined spontaneity to cultivate the fire of consciousness unto itself.

Sometimes, I wonder if our will to believe in the 'incorporeal' in any form is key to our species' endurance (however disjointed) and I am disappointed that I will not live long enough to find out. I know we are beautiful with or without God.

syndatha, I think I am metaphysical rather than spiritual and I would've selected one of your choices if I thought they fit. [Like many P-types, I am guilty of being chronically subsumed by identifying as truly original, however (in true J-fashion) I am less afraid of boxes (of order) than spaces (of chaos), but I still trust neither.]

I loved the challenge of answering your question! Thank you.

 

[Santosha]

Kind of, MBTI is a system of preferences, dimensional. People are viewing reality and spirituality in a dimensional way without layers. Hence spirit is seen like a flat surface, a partial experience rather than a whole experience. For how can trust happen when the responsibility to connect with personal source energy, self spirit, self belief is taken away and the responsibility is given to another being like a God entity whether humanistic interpretation and or other being(s)? Sounds strange to me that society is gullible in taking literature, other peoples experiences at face value without establishing a confirmation with their self/spirit first. Instead great confusion, misinterpretation what other people tells them it should be like, what other literature tells them what spirit should be like, what other beliefs tell them what truth should be like rather than listening to their own truth, what their self belief is.

Which comes to energy. Energy is a curiosity I’ve come to understand recently and is far more than it appears. I’ve always know, its just that since last October what I would call my spirit became switched on. This could become esoteric alternative and technical.

Think of what quantum physics tries to do with the double slit experiment where they have discovered that having an observable object affects the waves of particles and the way they behave. And I wondered why this seems that surprising. Of course when energy that isn’t interactive and observable will affect the outcome of those energies that are moving. If we take it into context with people then we all have an electromagnetic fields around our heart and bodies and an organization called heartmath has shown this. Which means that we are energy, and we have energy fields around us, which stands to reason that besides electromagnetic fields generated from our heart centers there would be other kinds of energies like emotional energy, thought energy, spirit energies like and auras and such which is composed of all of them. Layers of energy that we send out, you know the adage you are what you eat, you are what you think right?

Well its true, the more attuned and aware you become of your intuitive faculties the more your body tells you which foods lower your vibrational energies and which raise your vibrational energies. And this is why people react to processed foods, the chemicals and additives lower the vibration of a persons energy and allergies start. While fresh unprocessed food raises a persons vibrational energy. You feel healthier, you gain more nutrition, you are more clearer in thought and emotions and spirit strangely.

And this in turn reflects how our emotions and thoughts function. Or rather how we interpret energy and send out our intentions into, we’ll call it the universe. While what this is, is another quantum physics term called quantum entanglement where its been recently discovered that you can communicate at distance instantly without the speed of light which affects the other. Now if we take this concept further and think of DNA as communication gateways which sounds strange to say it, while science considers anything other than the double helix, the rest of the strands as junk or silent DNA. In recent times this too has been revised, that yes those previously thought silent DNA are more than merely silent. Well they are like a frequency I would call it, an attunement to our vibration energy, our emotional and thought fields or as some call them auras. And the opening and closing of the chakras or as I’ve come to view them centers aligning with our endocrine system in positive and negative polarities of health without proper balance.

Which means that we all have an electromagnetic energy field and those who are perceptive enough, intuitive enough, sensitive enough, empathic enough etc are able to notice the subtle differences. Indeed the auras, whether from sight, feeling or sensing or other. You know like you can walk into a room an hour later and get this clammy feeling, like the energy is different. While an hour before there was an all out argument war and you can feel the resonance, the vibration of the energy without understanding, that is part of the reason. Emotions and thoughts carry energy. And I don’t know if you’ve heard of The Secret, which is a partial truth and doesn’t properly work. But it’s the same effect, intention carries forward, what we think do, say, act and create comes back to us. Which means intentions are frequencies that aren’t merely energies of frequencies and signals we send out into the world that comes back to us from synchronicities we are oblivious to but more, they are communication gateways with our DNA. Just a theory mind, and that is part of the reason we are needing the theta, alpha sleeping, the deep sleep that generates communications and dreamings in our thought field and emotional field. Not only to restore our physical bodies but also to communicate with our self, our spirit, our energy if that makes sense.

And our energy may be scattered, and if our bodies, every cell in our body dies and renews, regrows after a 7-10year cycle which it does. Then imagine what our consciousness does and why it doesn’t do the same, why our thoughts feel eternal almost without needing to regrow and renew the same way. Its because we are energy created to fit into our bodies. And that’s where the term soul and spirit would originate from, that we have them, they are energies. And those energies are on a continuum I would say of our developing consciousness that we carry forward those past life or past experiences and like a switching are focusing only on this awareness without understanding our history beyond this consciousness. And its my understanding that while we sleep we communicate with our spirit our subconscious and whatever positive or negative intentions that are created out there in our waking world is affected what is interpreted in our dreamings and vice versa on some level. And that’s where some references like merkabah, light body comes from, as being energy, light beings.

the world offers great distraction from believing in our external realities, opinions and anchors of other peoples belief systems and faiths that are misleading instead of your self belief and anchoring your energy centers, light body as it were into yourself. Which is why I know that a great many religious and spiritual philosophies are skewed, externalising reality away from ourselves. Instead of focusing on our self, identity, being how can we become and grow into ourselves, releasing our pasts.

My belief is we externalise our realities including beliefs instead of finding our own source, our own internalised intuitive spirit energies to self belief and are distracted from learning about ourselves. By giving power away to other than ourselves, other people’s versions of God and Science, how can we know ourselves truly? Tainted from the very beginning of birth when our conditioning started, hearing our parents, friends, societies and media’s untruths as our guide.

Of which I did repeat myself a bit. However I would love it if I could collaborate and invent a device that could tap into peoples consciousness and unblock them to become in alignment with themselves is the best I can describe it without sounding unscientific. Hahaha but the reality is we have epigenetic markers that are passed on generationally as we would have morphogeneic field markers that would place a collective consciousness in our storehouse of DNA. Which just means a lot of our communication pathways aren’t active with who we are on a more subconscious level and we are accessing who we are through our dreams rather than downloading ourselves completely as in reintegrating with our full capacity. It’s a bit like the g8 theory in relation to quantum physics and the meaning of life with quarks, leptons and stuff. It can be confusing, all I know is that our DNA is a communication gateway like the internet and it does more than science thinks. I personally believe that any science that we have learned isn’t new, it’s a rehash of information we knew once before. I’ve had that feeling since very young, nothing I’ve read or knew surprised me in the lest, none of the innovations or inventions. I was expecting to be in a nanotechnology age already and wrote about it in a science fiction novel too hahaha. Almost like the scientific pathways are mirrors of an intellectual origin that I can’t describe without sounding far fetched. But that’s just me and the actual information and intelligence of what we are learning is surface infrastructure to our knowing of who we are rather than examining fully how we function. Almost like we are missing the big picture and focusing on the little bits and pieces even when we are seeing the big picture it seems unfocused. Which isn’t wrong, just dimensional.

Mini rant,

LOVED reading this.

And key ideas that I have looked into as well. But you took the time to explain them, much more succintly than i could.. and you are AWESOME for it.

 

[AgentF]

Baha'i.

shocking, but true...

 

[ultimawepun]

- Non-spiritual: What you see is all there is. My only religion is science.

This option sounds negative. You should've added another option:

Non-spiritual, but philosophical.

And science being a religion is very debatable.

 

[nolla]

I voted spiritual, although I could have voted atheist as well. I guess the "believe's only in science" made the difference.

For me science has been an important "hobby" since I was ten or something. But as I went through it I started to see the limits of it. Then I read some philosophies, and it became even more clear that science is just a perspective, and not even the most relevant to an individual. If you look at the world through human eyes, the first things you notice are all the things around you, the concrete things. Another part of your experience are the memories and thoughts, which you also "see" in some way in this moment. And part of them is science. This makes science less important than my direct experience and less important than the memories and thoughts as a whole. And what's more, since my view of the world is subjective, it would be silly to say that inside that subjective field is an objective part, which is science. Actually, science is just a democratic subjective field of a group of people called scientists. Of course the scientific view can be a lot more accurate or true on many areas than my experience, but still, it is not as relevant as the subjective view. I think the failure to see this is what leads many people to depression. If you look at your subjective existence through objectivity failing to see that that objectivity is rather narrow slice of the total experience, you are bound to see yourself as something small and unimportant.

This doesn't actually seem to have much to do with spirituality, but in some ways it does. For example, it frees me up to listen to that little voice that keeps silent whenever the mind is having one of its endless monologues.

 

[cascadeco]

This option sounds negative. You should've added another option:

Non-spiritual, but philosophical.

Yeah... I agree. I'm loving it though that I'm only one of two who voted non-spiritual (although am also kind of surprised; but from all of the posts from those who voted 'spiritual', the term covers vast territory indeed and as a result you really don't know what someone is referring to when they say they're spiritual). I voted non-spiritual only because, truth be told, I'm NOT spiritual compared to most who consider themselves to be spiritual. But yes, I think the Non-spiritual description in the OP sucks, and it's not that I exactly fit that either. I just think I fit it a bit more than that of the spiritual one.

 

[syndatha]

I'm sorry you think my description sucks
Maybe some clever Ts (or scientists) can make a better poll?
Maybe I should have had a disclaimer in my first post:
"This is not a scientific survey, it's just for fun."

Maybe I just should have simplified it?
Like:
Are you spiritual?
- YES, I'm a believer, and I have a bible
- HMM, open to the idea, or several ideas, and I prefer to define for myself
- NO, but I'm still a considerate and philosophical person
(Can't remember stating that people who believe most of all in science lack these qualities in the first place, but sorry for that too.)

Still, thanks for all the answers
It's so wonderful how so many of you give such elaborate and fascinating insights about your own spirituality

 

[cascadeco]

I'm sorry, : I wasn't directing that at you as a person, it was really more my own frustration that 'Spiritual' tends to cover pretty much everything under the sun, such that I really have no idea what an individual means when they say they are spiritual. For example, in including agnosticism under spiritual, you may then be including a whole lot of people who aren't practicing and don't believe in anything at all, outside of granting that it is possible. So you have agnostics in the same group as those who are actually incredibly devout but are opposed to organized religion, who are in the same group as those who mix various things but still hold firm in whatever it is they believe.

Also, the 'only science' slant of the non-spiritual description seemed somewhat negative in tone and also seemed a little limiting as to the 'why' for why someone isn't spiritual. But, that's just me.

Anyway, I'm sorry. Thanks for reminding me that the poll is for fun - I guess with this subject, having only three groupings means there's a lot that is open to interpretation under what falls under each - you know?

 

[syndatha]

OK - thanks

 

[NegativeZero]

The poll is almost certainly a false dichotomy. One can be labeled as spiritual without subscribing to any sort of spirituality. Moreover, non-spiritual =/= scientism. You do not have to be spiritual or religious to engage in the mysteries of your own mind through introspection (i.e. meditation). Consciousness is an oftentimes spiritual machine that will only confuse us more as we continue to make discoveries about it.

 

[syndatha]

*Still waiting for someone to create a better poll*
*Praying for more Ni in the world*

 

[cascadeco]

There have been many similar polls in this forum as well as the Philosophy/Religion forum and maybe the Bonfire too; I don't have time to search right now, I just know I've answered things like this several times on here before.

I think typically the polls have many more options though - several of the world religions listed out, then 'Spiritual but not religious' (which I always interpreted as either being a pretty solid believer in some higher power/post-death situation, either separate from organized religion or a personalized blend/view of various things) , then 'Agnostic', then 'Atheist', then 'Other', and other sorts of options like that.

 

[iwakar]

There have been many similar polls in this forum as well as the Philosophy/Religion forum and maybe the Bonfire too; I don't have time to search right now, I just know I've answered things like this several times on here before.

^
syndatha, also this for those of us who have been here a long time..., but I contributed to this latest incarnation of the topic anyway because I like to reorganize my thoughts on the weightier issues of life routinely to see where I stand.

 

[Rasofy]

I knew you NFs were mystical creatures