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View Poll Results: What are you, NFs?

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  • Religious

    9 18.37%
  • Spiritual

    34 69.39%
  • Non-spiritual (only believes in science)

    6 12.24%
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  1. #71
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    I don't really understand what the word spiritual means.

    I'm not religious, for starters. I don't pretend to know much, and try to work out a lot (and usually fail). I get overwhelmed by my own ignorance sometimes, especially that I do not know how ignorant I truly am. The reasonable possibilities seem to be, that I either know essentially nothing about this existence, or a tiny, but sort of notable fraction. And anywhere between of course. I tend to favour the first option rather heavily, but for no rational reason. It is anathema to me, to form an opinion out ignorance, and to pretend to know something I don't (which doesn't mean I don't spend as much time doing it as the next person, but may mean I have more fever in destroying such an opinion, should I realise its foundation).

    I meditate daily, but for the benefits to focus and attention, and because the unrealistic feats meditaters tend to perform in fiction (and the odd real one) I've been exposed to, have left me with a bias towards it as a lifestyle practice. I deliberately treat the more esoteric reasons for meditation with scepticism. I've yet to have any of the more eccentric experiences some claim can happen through meditation.

    I do however, have what appears to be an objective morality. Whilst I struggle to follow it (or rather, the little I understand of it), it keeps me firmly anchored even in the most depressing of mindsets. It makes Nihilism and Materialism seem absurd, which I think are typically opposites to the term spirituality.

    I don't know where this leaves me on the spiritual scale. I resent science being proposed as a non-spiritual thing (it's just a truth finding method, not a foundation for a belief system), but won't make much fuss about it beyond that.

  2. #72
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    He also contributed to a book called "The Bible According to Einstein". It's kind of amusing.. it's written in verse form like the Bible, but is one of the better all around "textbooks" on the current state of science. I keep it around because it's easy to dig up various facts.
    That sounds interesting - I might take a look.

    Yeah I'm a subscriber to "the God of Spinoza", as Einstein was.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #73
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    @erm

    Interesting .. I wonder if skepticism itself, is the opposite of spiritual? Spirituality is based on faith and the abstract "feelings" people have to just "knowing" something else beyond our conscious perception exists.

  4. #74
    Junior Member tonygoz's Avatar
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    Default This quote from King pretty much sums it up

    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.

    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #75
    Member ultimawepun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonygoz View Post
    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.

    Martin Luther King, Jr.
    So it's science's fault? What do you think motivates people to go to war?

  6. #76
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimawepun View Post
    ^Subtle propaganda.
    Heh. That could be the case. I was thinking that I just fell under some odd niche in wanting it. I don't think it sold well.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonygoz View Post
    Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.

    Martin Luther King, Jr.
    Although there is wit and wisdom in this quote I am not sure I can connect how it "sums it all up"
    Could you elaborate?

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Spirituality is based on faith and the abstract "feelings" people have to just "knowing" something else beyond our conscious perception exists.
    I'd certainly put my life-savings on there being something beyond my conscious perception. Aside from my conscious perception being proven through itself to be incredibly limited, "something else beyond our conscious perception exists" is such a vague statement it seems almost guaranteed to be true. So many possibilities are described by that. There's only one possibility not described by it, really, that what we have discovered at this point in history is all that exists. I would have thought even the most militant sceptic, who takes Occam's Razor as an absolute truth, would agree that that is almost definitely false. I only put the "almost" there out of OCD, it doesn't really deserve such a notable word referencing the one tiny counter-possibility's odds.

    It's when people start talking of specific possibilities, outside their perceptions, that I become sceptical. The more specific, the more sceptical. "Something" is possibly the least specific word in the English language. It's gotta be top league at least.

  9. #79
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    200 years ago, today's science was yesterday's magic.
    Today's magic is tomorrows science.
    Faith in science is no different than having faith in something else.
    Science says Humans can answer all questions mathematically.

    Humans can't even unlock the secrets of their own brains and planet.
    I am supposed to believe they can answer the mysteries of the universe using the same methods?
    NO!

    1. Faith and science are quite distinct. The first deals with accepting something in the absence of evidence; the second, with accepting something because of the evidence. Anyone who claims "to believe in science" misspeaks, or is ignorant. One accepts established scientific theories based upon the evidence, or one seeks to disprove them, again based upon evidence. One's beliefs require no such evidence, though people usually (hopefully) have reasons for what they believe. This is the realm of values, intuitions, feelings, etc.

    2. Science makes no claims about questions outside its scope, such as: does God exist? what is the meaning of life? do we have souls? Any scientist who does is now touting religion/spirituality, and not science. Grave problems result when we try to use one discipline to address the concerns of the other. We must use the right tool for the job.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I'd certainly put my life-savings on there being something beyond my conscious perception. Aside from my conscious perception being proven through itself to be incredibly limited, "something else beyond our conscious perception exists" is such a vague statement it seems almost guaranteed to be true. So many possibilities are described by that. There's only one possibility not described by it, really, that what we have discovered at this point in history is all that exists. I would have thought even the most militant sceptic, who takes Occam's Razor as an absolute truth, would agree that that is almost definitely false. I only put the "almost" there out of OCD, it doesn't really deserve such a notable word referencing the one tiny counter-possibility's odds. It paints a false picture.

    It's when people start talking of specific possibilities, outside their perceptions, that I become sceptical. The more specific, the more sceptical.
    Again fascinating. Since if they are perceiving it , it is not then really not outside of their perception?. It's not perception at all that is lacking in that case, it's the ability to communicate something that is vague by it's very nature.

    I believe if you ask the universe questions it will answer. The problem is in asking the right questions. There are countless versions of this idea floating around out there from genies to the "Monkey's Paw".

    It's finding a metaphor or a symbol, a language to express it in that is concrete enough for everyone to grok it.
    This of course explains religion.

    The next questions would be.. Is my imagination perception?
    Because if it is. Then what if I start talking about things outside my conscious perception. What if.... I imagine God?

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