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View Poll Results: NFs, would you marry an atheist?

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  • NO - I'm an INFJ

    10 8.26%
  • NO - I'm an ENFJ

    4 3.31%
  • NO - I'm an INFP

    9 7.44%
  • NO - I'm an ENFP

    9 7.44%
  • YES - I'm an INFJ

    27 22.31%
  • YES - I'm an ENFJ

    7 5.79%
  • YES - I'm an INFP

    32 26.45%
  • YES - I'm an ENFP

    23 19.01%
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  1. #41
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    How so?
    *sigh*
    Do you really want a list ?
    There is such a thing as double standards.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #42
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    *sigh*
    Do you really want a list ?
    There is such a thing as double standards.
    Yes, I think when you call someone narrow you shoud support why.. like i did in my post =)
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I couldn't tolerate an atheist.
    To be an agnostic, and say you don't have enough proof one way or the other is fair, and probably true.. but to be an atheist, and believe that nothing COULD exist outside of logic is so ridiculously narrow that I don't think I could bare being with someone like this. To deny the possibility of an intelligent design when all the wonders of the world surround you day after day.. to turn your head to amazing break throughs like 'memory outside of consciousness' and studies that highly accredited neurosurgeons and cardiologist are doing in near death research institutes.. I just don't think I could tolerate somone like that. They'd rank somewhere in between ron hubbard and the easter bunny to me.

    Now there are a few reasons someone might identify as an atheist that I could forgive..

    They are very intelligent but young.. have lots of books to back it up but don't have much life experience to draw on.. they will eventually change there mind (like when there 75 and diagnosed with colon cancer)

    THey are too lazy to really research and study it for themselves, so they follow the foot steps of other so-called "intellectuals" to place themself on an some kind of intellectual high ground without realzing how fake and psuedo intellectual it is..

    They are so over run with logic, empirical evidence, etc. that there is almost a disconnect between logic and truth. To believe that logic is all there is.. and that current human logic is as good as it gets.. is absurd. Logic is a tool and like any tool it can be mis used (aristotle) so if your basing your drastic sweeping assuption that no good exits based on logic, your a fool, imo. =)

    Now, I've known a few die hard atheists that did not fit into these categories. Dated one of them. And when I got at the real nectar behind these thought processes of his.. I was not only shocked & overwhelmed with such darkness, but felt absolutely terrible for him. The existential crises he had, the lack of faith in fellow human beings, the inability to see anything as meaningful or magical, it was just.. horrific. I say this because you would have to understand how these deeply rooted thoughts surfaced for him in everyday life. He had a complete disconnect with spiritual consciousness. Felt mroe alone that anyone I've ever known. And i'd say this is the one type of atheist I could NEVER be with. The one that would rob me of ever sharing all the majic beautiful connections that life has with him. The one that couldn't hold our first child in his arms the day it was born and KNOW it had a soul. I mean, fuck that.

    Just sayen. =)
    You know there are different kinds of atheists, right? There are the American Atheists preachy crazy ones that go around zealously trying to belittle and convert others kind of like a mirror of their Fundamentalist Christian counterparts (and I'm guessing if they didn't feel so strongly about atheism they'd be straight-edge punks or PETA-style vegans or something who also aggressively pushed their beliefs on others)...and nah, want nothing to do with that.

    But like I just mentioned in another thread, some atheists are Buddhists, you don't have to believe in god to be spiritual, and that's a hard concept for some people to grasp.

    My ex is an atheist but he believes in good and evil, and believes children have a soul when they're born...but only after they're born, not in utero, he believes the soul is an essence that builds within a person from life experience.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You know there are different kinds of atheists, right? There are the American Atheists preachy crazy ones that go around zealously trying to belittle and convert others kind of like a mirror of their Fundamentalist Christian counterparts (and I'm guessing if they didn't feel so strongly about atheism they'd be straight-edge punks or PETA-style vegans or something who also aggressively pushed their beliefs on others)...and nah, want nothing to do with that.

    But like I just mentioned in another thread, some atheists are Buddhists, you don't have to believe in god to be spiritual, and that's a hard concept for some people to grasp.

    My ex is an atheist but he believes in good and evil, and believes children have a soul when they're born...but only after they're born, not in utero, he believes the soul is an essence that builds within a person from life experience.
    I was going by text book "specifically the the position that there are no deities"
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #45
    morose bourgeoisie
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    If I believed in her, it wouldn't matter to me. I'm more troubled by religious certainty.

  6. #46
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Yes, I think when you call someone narrow you shoud support why.. like i did in my post =)
    k
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I was going by text book "specifically the the position that there are no deities"
    Yeah, and there are spiritual atheists who believe there are no deities.

    There are also compassionate, ethical atheists who don't prescribe to any religion or spirituality, who aren't as dark and whatever you were trying to describe with your ex-bf.

    You make atheism sound as though it automatically equals some hard-hearted person mired in existential angst.

  8. #48
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I couldn't tolerate an atheist.
    To be an agnostic, and say you don't have enough proof one way or the other is fair, and probably true.. but to be an atheist, and believe that nothing COULD exist outside of logic is so ridiculously narrow that I don't think I could bare being with someone like this. To deny the possibility of an intelligent design when all the wonders of the world surround you day after day.. to turn your head to amazing break throughs like 'memory outside of consciousness' and studies that highly accredited neurosurgeons and cardiologist are doing in near death research institutes.. I just don't think I could tolerate somone like that. They'd rank somewhere in between ron hubbard and the easter bunny to me.
    The green bit: I absolutly agree. I believe most actually smart atheists do it more in reaction to\to create a counterweight to the positive claims of religion. In terms of PR if someone claims A and the other doesn't claim anything people will have a tendency to believe A by default.

    the brown bit: while I agree that all data has to be considered I think you probably select the bits you want to believe in. So far noone of these studies have any kind of results they were able to reproduce and contain so much procedural misteps biasing the data that it isn't even funny. There's one interesting experiment about esp done recently but it hasn't been reproduced yet though. here's a link, enjoy

    Also if you claim that studies are made looking into the 'paranormal' (i disagree with this terminology as all that is observed is part of the natural world, otherwise we wouldnt be able to observe it) and use it to point at the narrow mindedness of other people, how can you then claim that relying on logic and empirical data is suddently not the method to go by

    Now there are a few reasons someone might identify as an atheist that I could forgive..
    You're not a judge and atheism isn't illegal

    They are very intelligent but young.. have lots of books to back it up but don't have much life experience to draw on.. they will eventually change there mind (like when there 75 and diagnosed with colon cancer)
    That's no more correlated with atheism than being an idiot is correlated with being human. Significant but not particularily so once you normalize the data with the witness sample. (I.E. People in general)
    I think that vision of the 'reedeeming atheist' is probably more of an urban legend than anything else by the way. I always hear religious types talk about it but I have yet to see it happen or see any data backing it up. If anyone has any study on the topic it'd be cool.

    THey are too lazy to really research and study it for themselves, so they follow the foot steps of other so-called "intellectuals" to place themself on an some kind of intellectual high ground without realzing how fake and psuedo intellectual it is..
    Yes, that's how I meant by double standards. Check the methodology of the studies you refer to before saying things like this please.

    They are so over run with logic, empirical evidence, etc. that there is almost a disconnect between logic and truth.
    So, basically based on this I could claim anything as being true with no evidence. Unicorns and the Sauron and rings of power. Empirical evidence is something we use because it's testable and reliable. You don't believe in fairy tales BECAUSE of empirical evidence (i hope) so why does religion makes exception to that rule?

    Logic is a tool and like any tool it can be mis used (aristotle) so if your basing your drastic sweeping assuption that no good exits based on logic, your a fool, imo. =)
    And what is your alternative by the way?
    You need a kind of frame to think. Also People aren't absolutly rational, there's nothing rational about empathy for example, it's just a fact of human nature. But as a fact it can be assessed logically. It's not perfect but it works better than unreliable methods based exclusively on internalized states that translate badly in language. And if you can't communicate something you can't reliably test it. That's all well and good if you're talking about someone feeling happy, not if its about something with clear consequences for the 'outside' universe, such as the existence or not of unicorns, gods or ghosts.

    I was not only shocked & overwhelmed with such darkness, but felt absolutely terrible for him. The existential crises he had, the lack of faith in fellow human beings, the inability to see anything as meaningful or magical, it was just.. horrific.
    Yes, I don't know the guy, but generally the 'void' etc people talk about when talking about the absence of the belief in a god is something that only seem to bother atheist in the imagination of theists. I'm sure there are exception but anecdotal evidence is no proof.

    The one that would rob me of ever sharing all the majic beautiful connections that life has with him. The one that couldn't hold our first child in his arms the day it was born and KNOW it had a soul. I mean, fuck that.
    Yes, again, there is absolutly no more data to back that up than there is to back up fairies, and I'll remind you that you seemed to welcome empirical evidence when it fits your views, that's not reason but selective delusion.
    While this doesn't make your claim untrue it makes them into one possibility among at least 10 to the power of a hundred (far more than there is atoms in the universe) and then some with absolutly no reason to prefer your theory than there is to believe in any other fancy of the imagination. And that sort of claim to me take such utter disregard for other people or even bothering to back up one's view that it dwarves the narrow mindedness of hardcore atheists.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #49
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Let me clarify.. The Atheist I was referring to is the atheist that believes NOTHING exists after death. Nothing. Not god, heaven, diety, energy change. You cease to exist in any form.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  10. #50
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Let me clarify.. The Atheist I was referring to is the atheist that believes NOTHING exists after death. Nothing. Not god, heaven, diety, energy change. You cease to exist in any form.
    ANd you claim that something happens after one's death based on absolutly no evidence of any kind, selectively discard empirical evidence and logic and then use empirical evidence in a counter example, offer absolutly no other alternatives than your own unjustified beliefs and complete disregard for other people's viewpoint and yet call an atheist who at least has some kind of data to back their claims up as narrow minded only succeeding in showing how much, much more narrow minded and arrogant you are
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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