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Thread: ENFP vs. ENTP

  1. #71
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    That's fine. It'd be impossible to sort anyway without large quantities of drinks and closer proximity.

    Just as long as you recognise that you are in fact wrong, this will be proven at a later date. I mean it's obvious... you're not even an INTP or nothin
    You are wrong. it's a misconception about having a feeling preference that you're relying on. Whatever the whole nonsense about this actually means. Of course you have to define yourself in terms of others if you want to be a good person: do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just, of course it's in terms of other people. It's just that for our stupid culture, 'in terms of others' is supposed to mean 'Oh, what will the neighbors think?' but really it obviously means more than that (and often completely negates it). OK?

  2. #72
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    You are wrong. it's a misconception about having a feeling preference that you're relying on. Whatever the whole nonsense about this actually means. Of course you have to define yourself in terms of others if you want to be a good person: do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just, of course it's in terms of other people. It's just that for our stupid culture, 'in terms of others' is supposed to mean 'Oh, what will the neighbors think?' but really it obviously means more than that (and often completely negates it). OK?
    The way followed xander's and butterflies coonversation was that Xander thinks Butterfly is defined by others, while butterfly was insisting that he/she isn't.

    but you are right to be a "good" person you have to measure yourself against adn define yourself by, an accepted or agreed set of principals. Xander is almost certainly trying to get butterfly to accept that, rather than insisting that no one else has an influence on him/her..

    Personally, others do define me to a certain level. The core stays me, and it is me that decides how much others influence how I choose to behave.

    But back to your comment, in an ENTP devils advote way, could you please explain how or why this list: "do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just" is a list of GOOD things?

    They are only GOOD by YOUR personal value judgement, and a Muslim funadmentalist would not consider out wester legal system as more "just" that Shiara law in the exact same way that we see Shiara law as much more "unjust" (if that's a real word..)

  3. #73
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    The way followed xander's and butterflies coonversation was that Xander thinks Butterfly is defined by others, while butterfly was insisting that he/she isn't.

    but you are right to be a "good" person you have to measure yourself against adn define yourself by, an accepted or agreed set of principals. Xander is almost certainly trying to get butterfly to accept that, rather than insisting that no one else has an influence on him/her..

    Personally, others do define me to a certain level. The core stays me, and it is me that decides how much others influence how I choose to behave.

    But back to your comment, in an ENTP devils advote way, could you please explain how or why this list: "do you improve understanding of something, or make a discovery that benifits humanity, or improve a situation among people around you, or make laws more just" is a list of GOOD things?

    They are only GOOD by YOUR personal value judgement, and a Muslim funadmentalist would not consider out wester legal system as more "just" that Shiara law in the exact same way that we see Shiara law as much more "unjust" (if that's a real word..)
    The thing is: it's not neccesarily an Agreed set of values. Particularily for ENFPs, when engaging in introverted feeling they will start with thier personal value judgements. Whether or not others agree is only an afterthought.
    I think the misconception is that some folks are under an assumption that people who prefer feeling live by some kind of confucian-catch-22 of being governed by the feedback they get. And that is totally wrong. Both feeling attitudes have rules that are not influenced by feedback.
    Oh, and YES, the part about GOOD is totally my personal value judgement, and I don't feel an obligation to justify it but I will. Just is fair, it hurts less people and when it does sting it is more likely to sting those who deserve it. Just is real word. It's one of the few words in modern english that conveys value correctly (in my personal, introverted-feeling opinion).
    I don't think personal opinion should be devalued though, man. Either it's an honest evaluation or it's not. And the latter is not impossible-it's what people should aspire to.

  4. #74

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    Is this cruelty only directed at people that ENFPs feel are weaker than them and can't strike back?
    I apologize if I personally offended anyone by asking this question. I was genuinely curious.

    Or is it some type of backlash from trying to be so nice all the time and keeping the anger pent up?
    This question is more influenced by my own experiences. Often I find myself being “nice” to people because:
    *I want to be able to step back and analyze their character under the pretense of being “harmless” and not making the other person feel like they are being probed
    *Once I’ve figured them out it seems like I have an obligation not to use their emotional vulnerabilities against them (However, I don’t know if other people will do the same for me, so I hide part of myself)
    *If I can, I try to help them work through their troubles

    My obligations can become a problem when someone starts antagonizing me because they think I am “too nice”. In reality, I could easily crush them by throwing all their mental complexes back in their face. Eventually, if the person doesn’t take my subtle hints to back off, I’ll blow up. But by that time I have collected so much data by analyzing their behavior that is seems unfair and makes me come across as slightly heartless. However, the only alternative is to completely “delete” the person from my life. In recent years, I’ve tried to block out people’s emotions to keep my mental balance. Also I've curbed my passive aggressive behavior by being more verbal about my perceptions. But I’ve found that this backfires because the person holds more of themselves back in an attempt to avoid being analyzed. In all honesty, I wanted to determine if ENFPs do similar things in RL.
    Introverted (I) 57.14% Extroverted (E) 42.86%
    Intuitive (N) 66.67% Sensing (S) 33.33%
    Feeling (F) 61.54% Thinking (T) 38.46%
    Judging (J) 51.22% Perceiving (P) 48.78%

    Your type is: INFJ

  5. #75
    Senior Member Butterfly's Avatar
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    Im a SHE...therefore a pretty butterfly Otherwise I wouldve chosen the nick RHINO hehe

  6. #76
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    The thing is: it's not neccesarily an Agreed set of values. Particularily for ENFPs, when engaging in introverted feeling they will start with thier personal value judgements. Whether or not others agree is only an afterthought.
    I think the misconception is that some folks are under an assumption that people who prefer feeling live by some kind of confucian-catch-22 of being governed by the feedback they get. And that is totally wrong. Both feeling attitudes have rules that are not influenced by feedback.
    Oh, and YES, the part about GOOD is totally my personal value judgement, and I don't feel an obligation to justify it but I will. Just is fair, it hurts less people and when it does sting it is more likely to sting those who deserve it. Just is real word. It's one of the few words in modern english that conveys value correctly (in my personal, introverted-feeling opinion).
    I don't think personal opinion should be devalued though, man. Either it's an honest evaluation or it's not. And the latter is not impossible-it's what people should aspire to.
    I'm playing now...

    is it just to cut of a thief's hand? A whole section of this world believes that it is, and a larger section believe that it is not, and neither require that the dictionary definiation needs to be changed...

  7. #77
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    I'm wondering, any of you ENPs:

    Is meeting another ENP in real life as explosive and electrifying for you guys as it invariably has been for me?

    It's been my experience that there's a certain kind of chemistry Ne shares, and when two people who have it strongly find each other, their imaginations go berserk and take off on a marathon of intellectual orgies.

    For me, this is very intoxicating: most other people seem so dreary and unwilling to play with me to at my highest intensity levels, although I'll admit it takes a bit for me to drop my guard fully. But once it's gone, it rocks my world.

    Anyway, just curious.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

  8. #78
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    well,i must admit meeting an entp is really funny and i generally get along very well with them. and we can also talk profound stuff and laugh together. an enfp+entp combination is an "explosive" combination

  9. #79
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    @nemo

    Yeah, intoxicating is the best word. Like many other drugs, the best time is the first time.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    I'm wondering, any of you ENPs:

    Is meeting another ENP in real life as explosive and electrifying for you guys as it invariably has been for me?

    It's been my experience that there's a certain kind of chemistry Ne shares, and when two people who have it strongly find each other, their imaginations go berserk and take off on a marathon of intellectual orgies.

    For me, this is very intoxicating: most other people seem so dreary and unwilling to play with me to at my highest intensity levels, although I'll admit it takes a bit for me to drop my guard fully. But once it's gone, it rocks my world.

    Anyway, just curious.
    Non-Domn Ne but I'm gonna answer anyway! It's *breath* B/C YOU'RE MIRROR COUSINS IN TYPE!

    I'd imagine most/some mirror cousins will get along well. Such as INTJs and INFJs. But I imagine Dom Ns and Dom Ss will befriend better as they match right away before T vs F separate them, opposed to Dom Ts and Dom Fs b/c they oppose right off the bat (and their Doms are the 8th Demonic of the other...INTP Ti vs INFP Fi being the 8th Demonic of the other... ().

    I've yet to read on anyone saying the same but it's an Ni-ed guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by DF
    I apologize if I personally offended anyone by asking this question. I was genuinely curious.

    My obligations can become a problem when someone starts antagonizing me because they think I am "too nice". In reality, I could easily crush them by throwing all their mental complexes back in their face. Eventually, if the person doesn't take my subtle hints to back off, I'll blow up. But by that time I have collected so much data by analyzing their behavior that is seems unfair and makes me come across as slightly heartless. However, the only alternative is to completely "delete" the person from my life. In recent years, I've tried to block out people's emotions to keep my mental balance. Also I've curbed my passive aggressive behavior by being more verbal about my perceptions. But I've found that this backfires because the person holds more of themselves back in an attempt to avoid being analyzed. In all honesty, I wanted to determine if ENFPs do similar things in RL.
    No problem. It was just how you phrased all ENFPs as being a certain way that was the issue.

    As to the rest of your post, I am almost the same. People try to use me after realsing how nice I am, especially those I'm helping out or doing things for (w/o being asked by them, as well) or they try to but realise how cold I'll become ("Oh, well I know you wouldn't do it! haha JK!"- Me: :rolli: "I won't, that's right. Go find a more gullible person")-- I was never passive-aggressive though. I'm very direct unless I'd keep it all within without anyone being aware until provoked enough into eruption... I tell them. They don't listen. I tell them again. I realised the certain patterns on my continuous helping of unworthy people (in the sense they didn't deserve my help and need to learn for themselves). It's like karma. They come back and back and I'd let'em and let'em. Delete them all to avoid them but now it's a deliberate "I'm deleting you. I wish you the best" (which is a worse "How dare you!" backlash than "We don't see you anymore! Why?" Me: "Umm.." RUN or run if I intuit their approach). Became (not by choice and then by choice) outwardly cool/cold to shield myself. People often think me a snob or a mean person until they talk to me and I respond. Can destroy people. I imagine it's more of "I know which values/emotions/beliefs to decimate you." and I do it in a very cold and stoically faced way, rarely is it firey (that's just at eruption point) and people almost always become firey or more in return- And I'll deliberately isolate myself for longer periods of times due to such people and my past failure to emotionally separate sooner.

    But I've learned those patterns and rarely make such mistakes anymore! I can be more Fe-skinned without Ni-paranoid fears! Or I can shield up with Ti if so and Se to another place away from them!

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