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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    So, to extend this further: how do you figure out if you are in the presence of someone to whom "it" means much the same as it does to you? Not that even the most wonderful friend or lover won't ever hurt you. But someone who values the same things, who sees things similarly or similarly enough, who isn't putting a completely different spin on the situation from your own?

    As a few others have mentioned...is it mainly about taking time and maintaining sufficient detachment before getting over-invested?? How do you actually do this???
    I don't think there's any one way that this happens so my experience is just one experience out of many. I met someone about a year and a half ago with whom I clicked immediately. It was definitely mutual with, I later learned, an attraction on his part. I felt something extra, even in the beginning, but because I was in another relationship, I wasn't conscious of the feelings for him. Suddenly, at a point in time when we were alone together, I realized there was something deeper going on between us. It was wonderful and I utterly trusted it. I can't think of anything I could have done to stop myself from loving him. Maybe I shouldn't have flung my heart into it but I don't have a regret about that. I would never have known him otherwise, and if you stop yourself or if you are too cautious, I feel a person might be closing down an opportunity as relationships fluctuate all the time and you never know what may be. We've bared our souls to each other, looked right down into each other's hearts, and so to not be with him and not have a possibiity to be is wrenching. We work together, and I've thought: never again will I let myself fall with someone I work with without being clear about what's going on between us. It's very hard to be clear. I would rather let things evolve naturally.

  2. #22
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    So, to extend this further: how do you figure out if you are in the presence of someone to whom "it" means much the same as it does to you? Not that even the most wonderful friend or lover won't ever hurt you. But someone who values the same things, who sees things similarly or similarly enough, who isn't putting a completely different spin on the situation from your own?

    As a few others have mentioned...is it mainly about taking time and maintaining sufficient detachment before getting over-invested?? How do you actually do this???
    I think it is just taking time. Maybe telling/reminding yourself that there doesn't HAVE to be a rush for anything - if it's mutual, and if they're invested as much as you, then it will happen of its own accord - there will be a give and take, they'll do some initiating, you'll do some initiating, but it's never you doing ALL of it.

    And if you would feel yourself beginning to hold on tightly, especially early on, then trying to take a step back to remind yourself again that *it takes two people*. In the end - in the big picture - do YOU really want to invest/be with someone who might not feel as strongly as you? WHY are you holding so tightly? WHY are you investing so much so early on if you really don't know if they care about you or view you in the same way you view them? Goes back to my first paragraph - there should be a healthy balance / reciprocity -- if you're picking up most or all of the slack, then you might also ask yourself why you're doing that, when you *really* deserve relationships where the other invests just as much. Now, they might show their investment in a different way from you, but I think if you're able to let go a little more earlier on, and try to approach it in more of a 'what happens, happens' mentality, recognizing that in the end you have no control whatsoever in how they feel about you, then it might be easier to be more detached earlier on. Then with Time, you'll be able to sense whether there's reciprocity.

    Of course it's HARD to remain detached if you really DO feel strongly about them and you really want a relationship, but ... have to let them be them, too, even if in the end that means they're not going to be feeling it or wanting it. And holding onto that is kind of like holding onto something imaginary that never existed in the first place - i.e. to you it's real, but the Relationship itself was never at that level because the other person didn't feel it. So the 'Relationship' is not really a reality in the first place.

    btw I hope this doesn't sound harsh, it's just what I think helps me be more detached these days.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think it is just taking time. Maybe telling/reminding yourself that there doesn't HAVE to be a rush for anything - if it's mutual, and if they're invested as much as you, then it will happen of its own accord - there will be a give and take, they'll do some initiating, you'll do some initiating, but it's never you doing ALL of it.

    And if you would feel yourself beginning to hold on tightly, especially early on, then trying to take a step back to remind yourself again that *it takes two people*. In the end - in the big picture - do YOU really want to invest/be with someone who might not feel as strongly as you? WHY are you holding so tightly? WHY are you investing so much so early on if you really don't know if they care about you or view you in the same way you view them? Goes back to my first paragraph - there should be a healthy balance / reciprocity -- if you're picking up most or all of the slack, then you might also ask yourself why you're doing that, when you *really* deserve relationships where the other invests just as much. Now, they might show their investment in a different way from you, but I think if you're able to let go a little more earlier on, and try to approach it in more of a 'what happens, happens' mentality, recognizing that in the end you have no control whatsoever in how they feel about you, then it might be easier to be more detached earlier on. Then with Time, you'll be able to sense whether there's reciprocity.

    Of course it's HARD to remain detached if you really DO feel strongly about them and you really want a relationship, but ... have to let them be them, too, even if in the end that means they're not going to be feeling it or wanting it. And holding onto that is kind of like holding onto something imaginary that never existed in the first place - i.e. to you it's real, but the Relationship itself was never at that level because the other person didn't feel it. So the 'Relationship' is not really a reality in the first place.

    btw I hope this doesn't sound harsh, it's just what I think helps me be more detached these days.
    But someone who values the same things, who sees things similarly or similarly enough, who isn't putting a completely different spin on the situation from your own?

    To the bolded: you just never know who's going to show up. Though my friend chose not to pursue things with me (though he showed me in very unambiguous ways that he was attracted to me and had feelings for me), he was all of the things you describe, only we saw things almost as if we were looking through the same eyes. Very emphathetic relationship. The timing wasn't right. I wouldn't have guessed there was someone like him out there in the world.

    I would say that what Cascadeco says is very true. You absolutely need the other person to initiate as well and take certain steps that say they want you. What falls in the grey area here is meeting someone who shows you they're very interested and reciprocates, then backs up, then shows you that they still are interested, etc. The only thing to do in this case is, I guess, walk away. In my case it was very hard to do this as he worked a few steps away from me and we had already revealed to each other that we were close (but we didn't say everything). This was a real relationship, acted upon if not spoken aloud. So in a situation like this, is to so unrealistic to wait and see what happens? I didn't think so and I couldn't break away from him at any rate since he seemed to not want to break away from me either (this was clearly demonstrated). I wish I were stronger and able to just say, f*** it. It's hard when you have a history of a strong friendship but you are really more than friends. I say that it's grey because people don't always know what they're feeling or doing. It takes time for someone to trust another, even if the initial feeling is complete trust. I think feeling such trust makes the other person wary, and they need time to test it out.

  4. #24
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    Yeah, it's hard to know how other people really feel about you, so I would base it on how they treat you. If they care, it will be obvious; if they don't, it might not be obvious, because it's painful to accept, so you will try to trick yourself.

  5. #25
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    I am ENFP, I get over-invested at times, with certain pepole. I feel like I'm regularly expressing affection for people, even some who appear not to appreciate it. I honestly thought INFJs were more guarded.

    Then again, any time you have a friendship or relationship with ANYBODY, one person's feelings could be stronger than the other, regardless of type.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    People talk all the time and don't mean what they say. I think as INFJ's, we tend to only say something if we actually mean it, so it's a big shock to find out that noone else actually has such a need to be authentic.

  7. #27
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    Yeah really!!.. What does authentic even mean? Maybe some type elitist can fill me in..

  8. #28
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily flower View Post
    People talk all the time and don't mean what they say. I think as INFJ's, we tend to only say something if we actually mean it, so it's a big shock to find out that noone else actually has such a need to be authentic.
    This is definately the case with every INFJ I've known. Extremely authentic and trustworthy. I'd say that maybe INFJ's should only date other INFJ's because they deserve eachother... but then that would leave way less potentially AWESOME people for us ENFP's to have a shot with.. so you just forget I said that... right now! =P
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily flower View Post
    People talk all the time and don't mean what they say. I think as INFJ's, we tend to only say something if we actually mean it, so it's a big shock to find out that noone else actually has such a need to be authentic.
    I know I always feel the need to be authentic (true to how I feel, think) when I say something. If I don't feel I can be authentic, I won't say anything. I'm sure that my friend is a fellow INFP or INFJ. I know he also feels the need to be authentic. That's why in my relationship with him, actions spoke louder than the words we said to each other.

    To Disregard: it is hard to know how someone feels sometimes. We always treated each other with respect, kindness, and openness. We enjoyed each other's company and made each other laugh. The two of us are open people by nature (as I say, we're very similar). We have chemistry and it was naturally acted upon in that we touch and enjoy being close to one another. But, if I had asked him how he felt about me, I don't know...right now (because he's committed to someone else) he would probably say he likes me and, at one time, wanted more, but that he couldn't practically see how things would work out because of the place we are in in our lives (I'm guessing). I wish I had been bolder about telling him my feelings straight out. It was the elephant in the room that we pretended wasn't there. I dislike being too forward, though, once I know the other person definitely knows I'm interested. I need them to make a move then. I think I was a little blind in not seeing certain things--that he had decided not to take it further (even if he had mixed feelings about it, which I think he did) while I was still feeling we might still act on the feelings.

    So, yes, you don't want to continue having romantic feelings for someone who can't return them in the way you would like. A friend recommended that I put a rubber band around my wrist and snap it every time I think of him romantically. He swears this worked for him.

  10. #30
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    ^Adding romance into the mix makes things even more indistinct sometimes. I don't know what to say, other than there are SO many factors that go into whether or not that will work between two people - mutual intellectual/emotional connection? similar goals? similar ideas of what constitutes a relationship and allignment on the type both are wanting? mutual chemistry/attraction? both people being fully 'present'/able to give to the other? both having the belief/confidence that they in fact CAN be in a relationship? both in fact *wanting* to be in a relationship? ... And the list goes on. And yeah, even if the 'connection' for all intents and purposes is there, the timing might not be right - i.e. one of the people is either fearful or not at all wanting to be in a relationship, or is going to move out of the country next year so doesn't want to start anything... and the list goes on. And it's also hard to recognize in some of these cases that if you'd met them 5 years prior, or 15 years in the future, things might work out differently, and both might be in the right place at the right time, both wanting to go for the relationship. But in the now, it's not in the cards. Such is life.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
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