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  1. #1
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Default A Question About Fi

    Does having a good handle on this function allow you to understand and be firm in what you believe is truly 'good' and what is 'bad', or does it allow you to see the nuances that each case, where you have to decide, is its own seperate choice?

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    If I understand you correctly, I'd say it's both. It's knowing what is 'right' for *you* as a person, as well as understanding that this may not necessarily be 'right' for others. Still some things seem to be universal. It would be hypocritical for you to have the need to be allowed to do what is 'right' for you and deny others that same thing, for instance.
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  3. #3
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Is this question directed solely to NFs? If so, that's okay too since my feelings won't be hurt. If not, I'll add my two bits.

  4. #4
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    If I understand you correctly, I'd say it's both. It's knowing what is 'right' for *you* as a person, as well as understanding that this may not necessarily be 'right' for others. Still some things seem to be universal. It would be hypocritical for you to have the need to be allowed to do what is 'right' for you and deny others that same thing, for instance.
    I slipped and didn't add that third option, but I wonder sense some things are universal how do you cope with this hypocrisy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Is this question directed solely to NFs? If so, that's okay too since my feelings won't be hurt. If not, I'll add my two bits.
    Fire at will!

  5. #5
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    "Cannonball to starboard!"

    *crash*

    And the ship starts to sink...

    As a blatant Fi-inferior, I don't trust Fi and it's decision-making abilities since "good" and "bad" are such subjective terms. So I take each situation and subject it to analysis, testing for logical inconsistencies. If the entire situation is one big logical inconsistency, I run away screaming or slowly step backwards, keeping my eye on the situation in case it attacks.

  6. #6
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Think of it like Ti... if one has analyzed something in depth, then one is reasonably certain (sometimes to the point of dismissing information to the contrary at first). If it's an new kind of event/problem/situation, than one has less certainly and judgments are much more tentative. Fi, like Ti, is all about the nuances and depth of understanding, although Fi focuses more on meaning, emotion, ethics, etc. We tend to be very flexible about understanding the viewpoints of others and giving them a benefit of a doubt. The exception, at least for INFPs, is when a core value is perceived to have been violated, and then openness to subtlety and nuance can fly out the window.

    Subjectively, I feel like I'm continually evaluating what's going one around me. There's a continuous, almost subliminal evaluation about what's good or bad, what's ideal or less-than-ideal, what's aesthetically better or worse.

    When I hear INTPs talk about continually evaluating the logical correctness of things, it sounds parallel to the continual Feeling judgments I make. Emotions are valuable input to all that evaluation (and often represent a lot of unconscious judgment), but they are not themselves truth or Feeling evaluations.

    We can tend to assume that others are moral and ethical free agents, responsible for their own actions. That being the case, we can be easy going until someone intrudes on our own ethical domain or treats someone else cruelly.

    Hypocrisy, a near universal human trait, is certainly possible with Fi, since Fi tends to optimize for the particulars situation. Just as Te tends to be more about broad utility, while Ti is more about precision in a particular domain, so with Fe and Fi. Since every situation is unique, there exists a possibility of finding justification. This can lead to cases where a Fi dom or aux can discard the general accepted ethical stance, believing that THIS time no one will be hurt, or that there are extenuating circumstances or whatever. Hence, we can sometimes be blind to the long term ramifications of our actions in ways that NFJs, for example, are not. "I really MEANT well," no matter how true it may be, only covers so much.

    On the other hand, we do tend to hold ourselves to high standards and judge ourselves pretty harshly. Plus, some of the more "universal concerns" (treating others with respect, etc) usually prevent us from going too far afield. That doesn't me we always live up to our values in practice, though.

  7. #7
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    "Cannonball to starboard!"

    *crash*

    And the ship starts to sink...

    As a blatant Fi-inferior, I don't trust Fi and it's decision-making abilities since "good" and "bad" are such subjective terms. So I take each situation and subject it to analysis, testing for logical inconsistencies. If the entire situation is one big logical inconsistency, I run away screaming or slowly step backwards, keeping my eye on the situation in case it attacks.
    Hmmmm... So you don't believe that anything universal exists as is looked at through the Fi lens, it only happens that some people agree with you and others don't? Another question! Do you as an inferior Fi user trust those who do use this function as their dominant?

  8. #8
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    It's once again individual and situation based. In a situation of platonic relations, I'm more likely to trust the judgment of a Fi-user who I've found to be mature (not age related, more balanced related) in perspective. When it comes to non-platonic relations, I run away screaming. When it comes to anything that requires objective thought, I rely on my own per situation analytics and metrics.

  9. #9
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Think of it like Ti... if one has analyzed something in depth, then one is reasonably certain (sometimes to the point of dismissing information to the contrary at first). If it's an new kind of event/problem/situation, than one has less certainly and judgments are much more tentative. Fi, like Ti, is all about the nuances and depth of understanding, although Fi focuses more on meaning, emotion, ethics, etc. We tend to be very flexible about understanding the viewpoints of others and giving them a benefit of a doubt. The exception, at least for INFPs, is when a core value is perceived to have been violated, and then openness to subtlety and nuance can fly out the window.

    Subjectively, I feel like I'm continually evaluating what's going one around me. There's a continuous, almost subliminal evaluation about what's good or bad, what's ideal or less-than-ideal, what's aesthetically better or worse.

    When I hear INTPs talk about continually evaluating the logical correctness of things, it sounds parallel to the continual Feeling judgments I make. Emotions are valuable input to all that evaluation (and often represent a lot of unconscious judgment), but they are not themselves truth or Feeling evaluations.

    We can tend to assume that others are moral and ethical free agents, responsible for their own actions. That being the case, we can be easy going until someone intrudes on our own ethical domain or treats someone else cruelly.

    Hypocrisy, a near universal human trait, is certainly possible with Fi, since Fi tends to optimize for the particulars situation. Just as Te tends to be more about broad utility, while Ti is more about precision in a particular domain, so with Fe and Fi. Since every situation is unique, there exists a possibility of finding justification. This can lead to cases where a Fi dom or aux can discard the general accepted ethical stance, believing that THIS time no one will be hurt, or that there are extenuating circumstances or whatever. Hence, we can sometimes be blind to the long term ramifications of our actions in ways that NFJs, for example, are not. "I really MEANT well," no matter how true it may be, only covers so much.

    On the other hand, we do tend to hold ourselves to high standards and judge ourselves pretty harshly. Plus, some of the more "universal concerns" (treating others with respect, etc) usually prevent us from going too far afield. That doesn't me we always live up to our values in practice, though.
    So. Would you consider it a process? As in: If you are evaluating your surroundings constantly and marking off your list what fits and doesn't fit within yourself personally; you're considering all the possiblities until you've found that set of conditions that you don't believe should be crossed and then stick with those values? Hm... Then how do two different Fi-users get along if they don't share the same values? Is it out of respect because you can tell that they worked rigorously to get to the answers they did? Doesn't Fi look for a universal aspect to beliefs, being extremely penatrative so wouldn't that mean that only one set of beliefs is true, while the others haven't dedicated enough time to searching? Yet it's said to be so personable and that each person molds it differently.

  10. #10
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    It's once again individual and situation based. In a situation of platonic relations, I'm more likely to trust the judgment of a Fi-user who I've found to be mature (not age related, more balanced related) in perspective. When it comes to non-platonic relations, I run away screaming. When it comes to anything that requires objective thought, I rely on my own per situation analytics and metrics.
    So your Te has out-lined designated spots for when those users should be allowed to take the lead?

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