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  1. #21
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    In reading, another thought came to mind. If you have two dom/aux Fi users and on a topic each holds an opposing view to the other who concedes, or what/who decides which one should concede? And one must concede, or be KILLED!!!!

    All ideas are welcome. Jenaphor
    they will probably both concede. if only one concedes the other will feel bad.

  2. #22
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    they will probably both concede. if only one concedes the other will feel bad.
    Agreed. They'll both concede and sacrifice themselves
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  3. #23
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    In reading, another thought came to mind. If you have two dom/aux Fi users and on a topic each holds an opposing view to the other who concedes, or what/who decides which one should concede? And one must concede, or be KILLED!!!!
    Good question. I admit I haven't had too many arguments with Fi dom/aux IRL. Usually when we disagree over something we are very accepting of each others view because we sense it comes from the right place. On top of that we seem to instinctively understand what each other's hot buttons issues are and are extra sensitive when talking about them - as a result arguments are less likely to eventuate.

    I'd really like to know what happens when it is a clash over a core value where there isn't as much leeway given - something I haven't experienced. I wonder whether I would be irritated, or even get angry at the 'wrongness' of their view. :confused:
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #24
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    I am greatly enjoying this thread <3

  5. #25
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curator View Post
    I am greatly enjoying this thread <3
    I'm having a hard time contributing to it.

    I don't want to get into too many details. I'm usually confident in what may work for myself. I'm more open for suggestions in my life than I used to be, but I'd be lying if I said I take criticism well. I'm still biting my tongue a bit. I can't tell when people are trying to be helpful at times. I especially get upset if they don't even know me (which is something I decide for myself too). As for my own criticisms towards others, there are very generalized areas of morality that I would hope the average person can appreciate, but if they can't, then yeah.. I'm confident enough to clash against it. There was a time when I was more disruptive, but I think somewhere along the way, I learned to be more open and perceiver oriented. I'm still learning that. I don't want to over-contextualize everything to the point of meaninglessness, but there are a lot of grey areas in life, aren't there? When I see them, if anything, I guess I use humor to diffuse those situations. Half of them are absurd enough to laugh about. That or I just stay away from people. Sometimes things become more clear that way.

  6. #26
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Does the conceding of both opponents mean that each respects the others opinions, or is it more calling them 'hopeless' and just avoiding that topic all together? Can you still work with them after the tiff (let's say it's a hot button issue), or does the incongruency effect your ability to do so?

  7. #27
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    That was very helpful uumlau. I do wonder. In the early stages it looks like Te/Fi has a head start as they already have 'certainty', where does (if it does) the Fi/Te get a head start?

    edit. Unless it simply is that ENFP's start off less abrasive than their counter.
    There is no head start. That's your own bias.

    There are certain functions that appear to be more concretely "useful" in the world, and thus it is tempting to assign value in that regard. Te is very concrete and tends toward material accomplishment. Si is similarly concrete and allows for quick learning, especially for most knowledge. Fe allows for great skill with people, if developed, which is another concrete result. Ni and Fi, my dom and tert functions, seem pretty useless in that regard. Yet they are the source of my understanding, without which my Te would be all about counting widgets, rather than turning incredibly abstract ideas into something comprehensible and meaningful.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ indeed. with absolutely no offense intended to non-Fi-users, i personally find Fi incredibly useful. i have no idea how people would be satisfied without much of it. we are all biased to see our own functions in the most useful light because the more adept we are with them, the better we understand their strengths.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Does the conceding of both opponents mean that each respects the others opinions, or is it more calling them 'hopeless' and just avoiding that topic all together? Can you still work with them after the tiff (let's say it's a hot button issue), or does the incongruency effect your ability to do so?
    in the situation i am picturing, it means that each respects the legitimacy of one another's identity, experience, beliefs, and right to hold opinions - not the opinions in and of themselves. it means that each acknowledges the other as a "good being". i suppose it could also be acknowledging that you both are dedicated to your values and do not have any intention of abandoning them - i wouldn't call it "hopeless", but an active refusal. or some other things.

    sure, you could still work with one another. but it would be preferable to avoid the issue, if it is clear neither of you will give any further. i am much more offended if someone treats me like i am worthless or stupid than if they disagree with me. disagreeing is not so bothersome as long as they are respectful and make an effort to understand why i believe what i do. that would seem fairly consistent across types.

    though there are some realms that just cannot be dealt with. if you are okay with slaughtering babies for no real reason, then no, i am not going to work with you. but if you're a conservative, i can suspend disdain for a little while

  9. #29
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    I don't know. @reflect.

    I feel you are trying to lump all Fi users into a box. Even within myself is conflict or harmony between opposing view points. BAJ at age 22 is very different than BAJ at 40. These two dudes may have fought, agreed to disagree, saw each other as lost, or found something to agree on obliquely. I would try to find a bridge. If there is no way to close the gap, can I bridge on something else? Can I expand their mind? Am I open to at least understand and agree on some tangential matter?

    I embrace opposing views within myself too. I'm conflicted, and I've held radically different opinions...within myself. Thus, it's difficult to fit just ME in a box, much less Fi users in general.

    Outside, I've fought. I've argued with the minister in the pulpit while he's preaching. I've proven by facts. Other times, I have been the bridge myself to help people come to terms between opposing viewpoints, so that some higher purpose may be obtained. As I grow older, I believe I'm less pigheaded, and more likely to try to find something to deflect from the conflict...something that can be agreed on obliquely.

  10. #30
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    That was very helpful uumlau. I do wonder. In the early stages it looks like Te/Fi has a head start as they already have 'certainty', where does (if it does) the Fi/Te get a head start?
    Well, here's another idea for you to consider. I would say Fi doms and aux's are forced to learn how to use Te (at least somewhat effectively) at an earlier age as a result of scholastic endeavours. Most INTJ's (for example, and other tert or inferior Fi users) can avoid having to deal with Fi until life forces their hand. Often somewhere in their thirties. Something to think about.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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