[NF] How does Ne/Fi Work Together Vs. Fi/Ne

[highlander]

I know an ENFP and INFP extremely well. They both use Ne and Fi but in reverse order.

ENFP - Ne > Fi > Te > Si
INFP - FI > Ne > Si > Te

We talk so much about the individual functions but I'm interested in how these two work together in different ways, given the reverse ordering. Of course, they have reversed ordering in the tertiary and inferior functions as well.

An example - I once heard the INFP, when the ENFP's Te task master comes out, says that the ENFP makes her feel unstable.

So, how do you think the ENFP and INFP are different and why specifically related to the ordering of these two primary and auxiliary functions? Also consider the tertiary and inferior as well if you like.

 

[Santosha]

Yes! I can't wait to see the distinction on this.

 

[INTP]

i think Te Si vs Si Te makes equally big difference than Ne Fi vs Fi Ne. i think when the Ne is dom function instead of Fi, it naturally makes Fi not so much used and leaves room for Te in decision making. i think besides of that its just mostly about extroverting more when extroverted function is dominating. but it all depends on the person, some ENFPs might be more in tuned with their Fi than some INFP. differences of the two types come mostly out in extroversion, how they behave when pissed off or stressed etc. also they are different in different ways when they are like 16 years old and like 30, due to development of tertiary function.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

Highlander, thanks for creating this thread. There seems to be a strong chronological component re: our hierarchy of functions. This is why two personality types can have the exact same top four functions (e.g., INFJ and ISTP) and yet interact with the world sooo differently. Therefore, I long ago concluded that the order in which an INFP / ENFP uses her functions makes a big difference in how these functions manifest and drive our personalities.

Function order of INFPs & ENFPs
INFP - Fi > Ne > Si > Te
ENFP - Ne > Fi > Te > Si​

My INFP BFF and I are sooooo much alike. We see the world in similar ways and have that whole Fi shorthand going on that make communication between us seem so effortless. But over time, I've become aware of some rather profound differences in the way each of us interacts with the world.

Dom Fi vs. Dom Ne: Ensuring things are as they should be versus understanding how things are
It is my observations that my INFP best friend spends a lot of time thinking about if X, Y, and Z are congruous with her vision about the way X, Y, and Z should be. In other words, she is always running an Fi values integrity check. It seems to me that what is of utmost importance to her is feeling that her world is a reflection of that vision. Voila dominant Fi.

Whereas, I like to take in new information just for the sake of taking in new information. I don't necessarily ask myself if it is consistent with my Fi values. (Although often I do ask this.) Of the utmost importance to me is understanding the world around me. Voila dominant Ne.

Auxiliary Ne vs. Auxiliary Fi
I've observed that my INFP uses her Ne not to take in new information just for the shear joy of it (which is what I do). Instead she uses her Ne to see every possible permutation of her Fi values integrity checks. By the same token, I use my Fi to run a values check after I take in new information and my Fi does not often affect, or filter, the information I seek.

The difference between Aux Ne vs. Aux Fi positions is verbally subtle, but behaviorally profound. In sum, I'd say that as an ENFP, I'm stuck more information gathering mode. While my INFP BFF is stuck more in Fi evaluation mode.

^^^^
I'm sort of figuring this out as I write it, so feedback from other ENFPs and INFPs would be appreciated.

 

[Lady_X]

i'm fascinated by this as well. my bf is an infp and we've had many discussions trying to figure it out...we've come to some of the same conclusions as ew but a lot is still fuzzy.

 

[Southern Kross]

Dom Fi vs. Dom Ne: Ensuring things are as they should be versus understanding how things are
It is my observations that my INFP best friend spends a lot of time thinking about if X, Y, and Z are congruous with her vision about the way X, Y, and Z should be. In other words, she is always running an Fi values integrity check. It seems to me that what is of utmost importance to her is feeling that her world is a reflection of that vision. Voila dominant Fi.

Whereas, I like to take in new information just for the sake of taking in new information. I don't necessarily ask myself if it is consistent with my Fi values. (Although often I do ask this.) Of the utmost importance to me is understanding the world around me. Voila dominant Ne.

This is fair statement. I certainly focus on my opinion or at least the 'should' of things a great deal when taking in new information. It has been said that INFPs do tend to be quite 'judgey' about the world around them (not necessarily in a negative sense) but then I suspect that I am more openly opinionated than most INFPs so I can't say. I guess ENFPs do tend to take things as they are without solidifying a perspective too quickly. Ne is about possibilities, so to lead with it would naturally result in some degree of open-mindedness.

Auxiliary Ne vs. Auxiliary Fi
I've observed that my INFP uses her Ne not to take in new information just for the shear joy of it (which is what I do). Instead she uses her Ne to see every possible permutation of her Fi values integrity checks. By the same token, I use my Fi to run a values check after I take in new information and my Fi does not often affect, or filter, the information I seek.

The difference between Aux Ne vs. Aux Fi positions is verbally subtle, but behaviorally profound. In sum, I'd say that as an ENFP, I'm stuck more information gathering mode. While my INFP BFF is stuck more in Fi evaluation mode.

I do love to take in information for the sake of it but I perhaps less so than ENFPs. I was having a conversation yesterday where I discussed moral questions with a friend without any interest of actually forming a position on it - I just wanted to raise various points and talk about the issues at play. I love that Ne tangential thinking without an end. I suppose ENFPs just do it more often than I do.

 

[Lady_X]

more posts please!

 

[KDude]

I'm scrappy doo, they're scooby doo.


OK, maybe not.

 

[INTP]

Highlander, thanks for creating this thread. There seems to be a strong chronological component re: our hierarchy of functions. This is why two personality types can have the exact same top four functions (e.g., INFJ and ISTP) and yet interact with the world sooo differently. Therefore, I long ago concluded that the order in which an INFP / ENFP uses her functions makes a big difference in how these functions manifest and drive our personalities.

Function order of INFPs & ENFPs
INFP - Fi > Ne > Si > Te
ENFP - Ne > Fi > Te > Si​

My INFP BFF and I are sooooo much alike. We see the world in similar ways and have that whole Fi shorthand going on that make communication between us seem so effortless. But over time, I've become aware of some rather profound differences in the way each of us interacts with the world.

Dom Fi vs. Dom Ne: Ensuring things are as they should be versus understanding how things are
It is my observations that my INFP best friend spends a lot of time thinking about if X, Y, and Z are congruous with her vision about the way X, Y, and Z should be. In other words, she is always running an Fi values integrity check. It seems to me that what is of utmost importance to her is feeling that her world is a reflection of that vision. Voila dominant Fi.

Whereas, I like to take in new information just for the sake of taking in new information. I don't necessarily ask myself if it is consistent with my Fi values. (Although often I do ask this.) Of the utmost importance to me is understanding the world around me. Voila dominant Ne.

Auxiliary Ne vs. Auxiliary Fi
I've observed that my INFP uses her Ne not to take in new information just for the shear joy of it (which is what I do). Instead she uses her Ne to see every possible permutation of her Fi values integrity checks. By the same token, I use my Fi to run a values check after I take in new information and my Fi does not often affect, or filter, the information I seek.

The difference between Aux Ne vs. Aux Fi positions is verbally subtle, but behaviorally profound. In sum, I'd say that as an ENFP, I'm stuck more information gathering mode. While my INFP BFF is stuck more in Fi evaluation mode.

^^^^
I'm sort of figuring this out as I write it, so feedback from other ENFPs and INFPs would be appreciated.

well said. but its at least equally important to look at SiTe vs TeSi, so talking only about NeFi vs FiNe doesent explain much when you compare enfp to infp. imo when you start looking at tertiary function the difference comes more clear, since enfp and infp both usually have reasonable good Ne and Fi, but infps usually have quite lower Te than enfps and enfps usually have quite much lower Si than infps.

how would you compare your TeSi vs SiTe?

 

[Lady_X]

well said. but its at least equally important to look at SiTe vs TeSi, so talking only about NeFi vs FiNe doesent explain much when you compare enfp to infp. imo when you start looking at tertiary function the difference comes more clear, since enfp and infp both usually have reasonable good Ne and Fi, but infps usually have quite lower Te than enfps and enfps usually have quite much lower Si than infps.

how would you compare your TeSi vs SiTe?

absolutely...i can definitely feel the difference between si/te vs te/si

 

[INTP]

absolutely...i can definitely feel the difference between si/te vs te/si

describe the differences plx

 

[William K]

I do love to take in information for the sake of it but I perhaps less so than ENFPs. I was having a conversation yesterday where I discussed moral questions with a friend without any interest of actually forming a position on it - I just wanted to raise various points and talk about the issues at play. I love that Ne tangential thinking without an end. I suppose ENFPs just do it more often than I do.

Apologies for going all meta, but is this not Fi making the decision that you're currently in the mood for taking in information? That Fi is the one who 'decided' that you have no interest in taking a moral position?

 

[William K]

I think it's analogous to the brainstorming process. Fi converges and Ne diverges. For an Fi/Ne user, Fi would start with a baseline judgment based on existing values, knowledge, etc. Ne would then be used refine/change that judgment or come up with more evidence to support the decision.

 

[onemoretime]

Can't say for certain, but I think a key distinction is that when the pressure's applied, Fi/Ne's tendency is to withdraw and reflect to try and come to some greater understanding about the situation, while Ne/Fi will go to war to set things right again. Tertiaries at work - Si wants things to feel right again, while Te wants to make things right again.

 

[skylights]

^ i would agree with this.

i also see Ne dominant in the way i tend to handle tense situations. i like to... "slip" my way out. a combination of loopholes and a little genuineness, but mostly loopholes. i think INFPs are the other way around. mostly genuineness, with a little bit of loophole. but like onemoretime said, if i'm under serious pressure, shit is getting done. the INFPs i know do not get the Te-craze.

also another aspect might be the quandaries we tend to get ourselves in. Ne doms get lost in information. we keep gathering, and getting nowhere, hoping that the answer is somewhere just beyond the horizon. Fi doms, i suspect, would tend more to get lost in feeling. of course we can both go into overdrive in either function, but i suspect the dom's issue is more chronic and debilitating and the aux's more temporary and acute.

 

[William K]

also another aspect might be the quandaries we tend to get ourselves in. Ne doms get lost in information. we keep gathering, and getting nowhere, hoping that the answer is somewhere just beyond the horizon. Fi doms, i suspect, would tend more to get lost in feeling. of course we can both go into overdrive in either function, but i suspect the dom's issue is more chronic and debilitating and the aux's more temporary and acute.

Sounds right. Ne-Te(?) explodes like the Big Bang into an ever expanding universe of possibilities. Fi-Si collapses inwards like dying star, causing a black hole that sucks everything in

 

[Scott N Denver]

Lenore Thomson spends time talking about this in her book "Personality Type."

Pgs 374 and 375 deal with Fi in EFP's [with special focus on ENFPs], and Ne [or Se] for IFP's. I don't feel like quoting 2 pages of material here.

However, I will quote some other stuff. From pg 397: "Intuition doesn't push INFP's to act. It pushes therm to interpret: to see the potential of their thoughts and behaviors in terms of their ideals.
Because their ideals are wholistic, INFPs feel responsible not only for their actions but for their desire to take action, and they have a nearly karmic idea of balance. If they betray their ideals in either deed or feeling, they try to make restitution. When good things happen, they may worry about paying a price.
It's instructive to compare these types to ENFPs, who share the same two functions but understand life very differently. ENFPs rely on intuition to gauge the nature of an external context and feeling to recognize the values of the people in it. The best illustration of how this works is President Clinton's unrivaled ability to identify with an audience and sympathize with their aspirations. ENFPs generally believe that people will recognize their good intentions, even if their behaviors fall short of them.
INFPs approach reality form the other way around. Introverted feeling prompts them to hold unconditional human values, and they use intuition to figure out what that means in terms of their existential context. Asked whether he had ever had an extramarital affair, President Jimmy Carter said no but allowed that he had experienced "lust in his heart." This is a quintessential INFP perspective. Such types feel responsible for their hidden intentions, even if their behaviors exceed people's expectations."

 

[KDude]

I would say the whole chapter on IFPs in Thomson's book is informative. It's discussed with a lot of overlap between Se and Ne types. While ENFP is overlapped with ENTP (rather than ESFP). While both are Fi, the dominant function plays the biggest part in differences (I'm assuming). Not Si and Te.

 

[skylights]

my problem with lenore thomson:

To her an extrovert is someone that's primarily oriented in an extraverted way: they get their bearings by looking at what is easily perceivable here and now. For extraverts, directions are meaningful only if they relate to present circumstances. They feel somewhat disoriented by extended examinations of maps: maps (especially of a more abstract kind) are not easily perceivable and do not relate in an obvious way to what is easily perceivable right now..

In the way she seems to be using the term 'extrovert', it is better thought of as not 'E' in the MBTI code, but rather attunement with the external concrete environment. By that model, an extrovert is one who is more oriented by physical action and introvert one more oriented by contemplation.

In this regard the IS better identifies with Extroversion and EN with introversion. As ENs are more idea oriented rather than action oriented as their worldview is unmistakably abstract. ISs however, are more action oriented due to their attunement with the concrete environment of the external world. They may spend more time in contemplation, yet all of their contemplation is closely associated with the concrete world of sensation. Yet ENs may spend more time in the world of external affairs than the ISs, however, because they are concerned with applying ideas to the external world and not just experiencing it, it would be safe to grant that they are in closer affinity with the mind than the external world.

also she makes us sound like we're only interested in people to clinch some sale or gain the most votes, god forbid an ENFP be interested in helping someone else because it's kind. or like that p397 quote, makes us sound like flakes and manipulators in contrast with INFP's admirable moralism. barf.

 

[KDude]

I appreciate your perspective for sure, and I think there's something to what you're saying, but if we were talking about sources, I really would have to be paid to choose SolitaryWalker's word over Lenore Thomson's. Except I don't know if I really could do that either. Morals and such, j/k XD

The problem is that I've never heard him support anything written about MBTI except his own self-published book. Apparently everything else is "folk typology". It doesn't help that he's a passive-aggressive jerk. At least, his SolitaryWalker persona was.