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  1. #21
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I read both books. I prefer Lenore Thompson, but I really did like Solitary Walker's book except for the INFJ profile which he apparently got lazy on. The advantage of Thompson is that you can actually get an idea as to how to use the knowledge whereas solitary walker's book is pure theory. So I forgive some of Lenore's inventiveness and star trek stories because of the practical orientation.

  2. #22
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    well said. but its at least equally important to look at SiTe vs TeSi, so talking only about NeFi vs FiNe doesent explain much when you compare enfp to infp. imo when you start looking at tertiary function the difference comes more clear, since enfp and infp both usually have reasonable good Ne and Fi, but infps usually have quite lower Te than enfps and enfps usually have quite much lower Si than infps.

    how would you compare your TeSi vs SiTe?
    ^ This would be interesting to hear more of.

    I noticed in first post it was said about the INFP feeling unstable with ENFPs Te task focus mode.

    I don't know if this tells of every INFPs experience with tertiary Si but
    I like to know where, what are some landmarks so I know what to expect without being overwhelmed by any surprises.
    Applies to most everything heh. Trying to be more spontaneous though as it's the spice of life correct?

    Well anyway. If we could dig into TeSi vs SiTe in ENFP vs INFP I do agree that I think we could see the distinction better.

    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  3. #23
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    I don't know if this tells of every INFPs experience with tertiary Si but
    I like to know where, what are some landmarks so I know what to expect without being overwhelmed by any surprises.
    Applies to most everything heh. Trying to be more spontaneous though as it's the spice of life correct?
    Yeah, I hate being surprised and I think slowly on my feet. So I need a default position/action that I can 'retreat' to if I can't come to a quick decision.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  4. #24
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i think like skylights said when the pressure is on we need to get shit done...so i think we go from ne to te really quick without much fi or si self checking...i think infps have a lil fi si loop thing going on and it takes them a lot longer to act but when they do that course of action will be very well thought out...felt out...both practical and considerate.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #25
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I appreciate your perspective for sure, and I think there's something to what you're saying, but if we were talking about sources, I really would have to be paid to choose SolitaryWalker's word over Lenore Thomson's. Except I don't know if I really could do that either. Morals and such, j/k XD

    The problem is that I've never heard him support anything written about MBTI except his own self-published book. Apparently everything else is "folk typology". It doesn't help that he's a passive-aggressive jerk. At least, his SolitaryWalker persona was.
    i dunno much about solitary walker, have not read his book, but i think he has a useful wording of an opinion i share - i think most of her stuff in general is quite good, but i do reflect the sentiment that she makes leading with an extraverted (Perceiving) process sound a bit superficial.

    i suspect the extraverted Perceiving function in a Ji dom will be less important when it comes to behavior - it will be more controlled by the dominant - while almost always it is my auxiliary that is reining me in. and sure, i'm pretty convincing when i'm excited about something - sometimes so much so that people mistake my brainstorming for a solidified opinion. could i persuade someone into buying something that was a rip off, or would only end up hurting them? yes, probably. i am a good manipulator of information, for better or for worse. and then i would spend an hour crying in my room because i felt so bad, or possibly going back to them, giving them their money, and taking the dumb thing back. so even though i could, i am highly unlikely to do so, because i know the internal consequences, which, unlike external consequences, i cannot escape.

    similarly, ENTP's Ti orients them - and we know all ENPs are batshit crazy to a certain extent - but our Judging functions are what keep us on any consistent track. so yes, you can group all ENPs because we see similarly, but i think it's an incredibly important point that our introverted Judging process often shapes the nature of our behavior, even though our dominant gives us an large range of possibility. put an ENFP and ENTP in a room, and we will enjoy the range of topics discussed, and similar senses of humor, but quickly argue when it comes to matters of what should be done. an ISFP and INFP are less likely to argue such a thing, though their interests may be more different.

    and that goes on to be reflected in other behavior as well - she says that all extraverts tend to jump quickly into things - well, yes and no. if something means little to me, then i will dive in. if it is very important, then i take a long time. and which category it falls into is up to my Judging process. plus, as a P, i am more spontaneous, yes, but also more hesitant and indecisive than an ExxJ. it's just that i seem less externally consistent because i am deciding how to act on a case-by-case internal Feeling basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander
    So I forgive some of Lenore's inventiveness and star trek stories because of the practical orientation.

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I need to read the chapter again, but from what I remember, it was flattering. More like, the Ne dominant typically had a lot charisma and ability to adjust/be open to many types of people. Not manipulative per se.

    Even that though is not necessarily true, of course. I know ENPs are like the introverted extroverts in many cases. Or at least nervous in a way (for lack of a better word).

    It doesn't help though that she used Slick Willy as an example. IFPs get.. if I recall, Fox Mulder and La Femme Nikita. We're just too cool, aren't we?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I need to read the chapter again, but from what I remember, it was flattering. More like, the Ne dominant typically had a lot charisma and ability to adjust/be open to many types of people. Not manipulative per se.

    Even that though is not necessarily true, of course. I know ENPs are like the introverted extroverts in many cases. Or at least nervous in a way (for lack of a better word).

    It doesn't help though that she used Slick Willy as an example. IFPs get.. if I recall, Fox Mulder and La Femme Nikita. We're just too cool, aren't we?
    AND Mother Teresa! It's pretty hard to trump that!

  8. #28
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post

    and that goes on to be reflected in other behavior as well - she says that all extraverts tend to jump quickly into things - well, yes and no. if something means little to me, then i will dive in. if it is very important, then i take a long time. and which category it falls into is up to my Judging process. plus, as a P, i am more spontaneous, yes, but also more hesitant and indecisive than an ExxJ. it's just that i seem less externally consistent because i am deciding how to act on a case-by-case internal Feeling basis.
    Good point. I should add that she starts off her chapters focusing on the dominant, both the positives and negatives, and then moving into how one grows with the auxiliary (among other things). Then after that, seperate ENFP or ENTP sections. She just sort of touches on general things in the early parts, which where I think the Clinton bit came from. She wouldn't deny anything you're saying here about Fi (that goes for her ESFP descriptions too).

    Anyways, I don't want to derail too much about Thomson specifically.

  9. #29
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Yeah, I hate being surprised and I think slowly on my feet. So I need a default position/action that I can 'retreat' to if I can't come to a quick decision.
    Exactly. I have a hard improvising within a situation. Especially dealing with people as I don't quite understand what you say and don't say even though it should be obvious O.o. On a default position I notice if I don't have one I freeze and put myself in an observer mode to see how I should do something/act. I feel bound and I get caught up in fear of not knowing what to do and seeking familarity of any kind helps in a time like that. Like with driving as a general example of how I tend to act this out if I go anywhere new I look for a street that is one I've been on so and thank goodness for google maps that actually allows you to see the physical layout itself for landmarks sake. But even then their are variable that may crop up. Trying to tell myself "sometimes I got to just try despite the unfamilarity".

    .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  10. #30
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Good point. I should add that she starts off her chapters focusing on the dominant, both the positives and negatives, and then moving into how one grows with the auxiliary (among other things). Then after that, seperate ENFP or ENTP sections. She just sort of touches on general things in the early parts, which where I think the Clinton bit came from. She wouldn't deny anything you're saying here about Fi (that goes for her ESFP descriptions too).

    Anyways, I don't want to derail too much about Thomson specifically.
    i know, i read it recently, i just think she was not quite as careful as she could have been in her ENP description... she made statements that i would add caveats to because they're very much dependent on which Judging process one uses. even then, i think she gets her Se and Ne mixed up a bit sometimes - kind of what solitary walker was getting at, because she thinks all extraverted processes operate in the present. i mean, she starts the book by saying that extraverts don't think before we act. i disagree. but, i suppose all of these claims are her prerogative if she's taken the time to write a whole book. overall i think she's quite excellent, but these little things bother me because they are misrepresenting me.


    anyone else feel like they'd like to compile a book with the sections for each type made by people of that type? i feel like part of the reason we - at least, i - don't resonate with profiles is because someone of a vastly different type wrote them from a perspective that is more foreign from mine, and so they use language that sounds less familiar to me, even if their concepts are accurate. i have no idea what type thomson is, but i'd be willing to put money on her not being ENFP.

    ps - one more difference... i think Ne doms are less resistant to derailing

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