User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 73

Thread: Need Fi help!

  1. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    ^^

    Oh, that's good! Thank you for the example. If I get an opportunity, I will try that tonight.

    Yeah, it's been going on a while. I kind of had a Sixth Sense moment when I realized how serious it was--I flashed back to all the times we've had conflicts and all the times the guys have tried to tell us the way they like to work, or something they're frustrated with. It just didn't really register at the time, because I didn't realize it was a Fe-Fi conflict. It just seemed like, "Let's do it this way." "I don't want to...let's do it this way, instead." Or sometimes, unfortunately, the ENFJ would say, "We don't need to do it that way. We're doing it this way." I've talked to her several times about her tendency to seem dismissive of people and pronounce things. The bass player, our other peacemaker, has, too.
    I don't say this lightly. I think you may be the most incredible INTP I've ever encountered.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #52
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I don't say this lightly. I think you may be the most incredible INTP I've ever encountered.
    Yes, Tallulah is quite cool.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  3. #53
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,660

    Default

    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes, Tallulah is quite cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post


    I wish we lived near one another. I would make her my RL friend so fast, she'd think she'd been enveloped by a hurricane.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #55
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    because tallulah's purpose is to help him, i suspect it's very unlikely that any compliments will come off fake, as long as she actually means them. Fi checks for "internal (feeling) consistency", and in this case her words will match up with her intent. ime, what Fi will erroneously read as fake more often is genuine Fe used as the person is also working towards a private Ni or Si goal. something about the person's bearing/speech/actions will tell you one thing, but another aspect will tell you something that's not really along that same track, and that's when you start feeling uneasy. but i've never really met an INTP who is likely to give undeserved praise!

    PB you have a good point about the sandwich thing, lol. you could totally feel ripped off - "hey i'm going to say great things about you BUT JUST KIDDING". i like your idea of negatives first - i think why i was thinking positives first in this case is because he might be feeling a little sore about his standing with the band in general. actually i think that's why my post in general was sooo about affirmation. i got the sense that maybe he has been frustrated about this for awhile.

    but he'd probably appreciate someone just coming out and saying it anyway, and being willing to talk about it with him, instead of distantly announcing it and not being there to support.
    i totally think less is more...straightforwardness...like on this song we are all so in sync and the part where you do this and that rocks you're awesome at blank in this song and that song but on this one and that one there's a disconnect and it's all out of balance you're playing it this way when we're playing it that way...can you hear it? what's your perspective? would it help if we tweaked this or that...or what can you think of to make this one gel like the others do?

    i don't think the negatives or positives have to be overdone...just accurate and true.
    Last edited by Lady_X; 02-25-2011 at 10:22 AM.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #56
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    It sounds as though the ENFJ and the ENFP are having creative differences. The ENFP is losing their enthusiasm, because they don't want to do things the ENFJ's way. It seems like, if the ENFJ is the leader... that ENFP might just have to be let go, because he's not falling in line with her vision. I think that's what is ultimately going to happen if he can't be persuaded to do a better job.

    Perhaps it will be necessary to replace most of the Te/Fi users... they seem to be resistant to the ENFJ's vision. And the ENFJ is not going to like the idea of sacrificing their vision to Te/Fi principles that are alien to them.

    I have to admit, when I read your OP... I was picturing myself in the ENFJ's place, and thinking "This person is so selfish and lazy, they clearly don't share my vision or understand how it benefits them. They don't respond to my suggestions that they improve. If they weren't my friend, I'd have fired them already and looked for someone better. Maybe it's time to let them go anyway... their attitude is putting such a strain on our friendship anyway that I can't stand it." Depending on what mood she's in, she might even think she's being sabotaged.

    Just note that while I am mostly sympathetic to the ENFJ in this situation... I'm very aware that there's an Fi perspective as well, and that this isn't the only way to look at it. But I thought this might be a good point in the thread to remind everyone of the ENFJ's perspective, just to make sure it wasn't forgotten about. I don't think her expectations as a leader are terribly unreasonable.

    Here's hoping that the conflict is resolved somehow, without having to fire anyone. I wish all of you good luck.

  7. #57
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    To me it seems she's not being a leader though, she's expecting to be served rather than serve. There is a big difference attitudinally. And from what I understand, there is no defined vision - people can't follow something that only exists in another person's mind.

    I think if the ENFJ can truly emerge as a leader here there is still space for reparation. But it's close to breaking all apart. Anyhoo, I am interested to hear how the meeting goes today, sending lots of best wishes.

    Not intending any judgement here Athenian200, but it is interesting to me how my default is to try to help everyone be compatible and peacefully coexist and yours is to create a peaceful coexistence by choosing more compatible people.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #58
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I think if the ENFJ can truly emerge as a leader here there is still space for reparation. But it's close to breaking all apart. Anyhoo, I am interested to hear how the meeting goes today, sending lots of best wishes.
    Me too, I'm hoping for the best. *crosses fingers*
    Not intending any judgement here Athenian200, but it is interesting to me how my default is to try to help everyone be compatible and peacefully coexist and yours is to create a peaceful coexistence by choosing more compatible people.
    Yeah, it is pretty funny, if you think about it that way. Although I prefer to try and help everyone get along if there's any hope... I do prefer choosing more compatible people in the first place. Remember, I was just saying how I imagine an ENFJ in this situation would do things. Not how I would do them, per se. My Fe has a default response (which is why I sympathize), but my Ni usually overrides it and softens it in situations like this, rather than backing it up. That makes a difference.

  9. #59
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    Aww, you guys! Thank you for all of your kind words! And for the added info and perspectives. I really am taking the crash course in Fe-Fi relations with this situation!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    To me it seems she's not being a leader though, she's expecting to be served rather than serve. There is a big difference attitudinally. And from what I understand, there is no defined vision - people can't follow something that only exists in another person's mind.

    I think if the ENFJ can truly emerge as a leader here there is still space for reparation. But it's close to breaking all apart. Anyhoo, I am interested to hear how the meeting goes today, sending lots of best wishes.

    Not intending any judgement here Athenian200, but it is interesting to me how my default is to try to help everyone be compatible and peacefully coexist and yours is to create a peaceful coexistence by choosing more compatible people.
    PeaceBaby has really nailed it here. That's exactly what's happening. ENFJ is being the leader only in the sense of having her vision and telling everyone else what to do. She hasn't really thought about what being a real leader entails. That's one thing this threads has really made me think about: what exactly makes a good leader? I'm afraid that right now ENFJ is so worked up that it's going to be hard to get through to her. But I'm hoping I can encourage her to go the rest of the way and develop leadership skills, listening to everyone else and giving them what they need to be successful and creatively happy and fulfilled. She's definitely capable of it. She's extraordinarily intelligent, and she doesn't mind taking the reins. But she's used to dishing things out and not taking them very well. She's used to "I didn't screw it up, so why do I have to be there?" I really need her to see the consequences of her own words, actions, and Fe style, to really understand the cause and effect relationship. I need her to see it's in her own best interest to be more of a team player.

    Partial band meeting tonight...I'm meeting with ENFP and INTJ. Will let you know how it goes!
    Something Witty

  10. #60
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    I think if the ENFJ can truly emerge as a leader here there is still space for reparation


    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah
    what exactly makes a good leader?
    yes, it's an interesting question, isn't it.

    helpful, perhaps, would be the idea of picking and choosing battles. she can have primary say in the big calls, but in little things, she may need to just let a little bit go and let other members do as they please. she wants what she wants, but because her vision requires other people, she's going to have to deal with the slightly messy reality of working with them. she can allow for a little deviation without losing her vision - the important part of it, at least.

    you and the others might be able to help her figure out what each person really needs to be happy about how the band is going, and how to meet these needs without losing sight of the "heart" of the band itself. she will need to let Fe guide Ni, instead of vice versa.

    --

    theoretical tangent:

    unfortunately i have been in a group where a (tested, self-confirmed) NFJ leader just decided to ignore the people he didn't like. the problem with that is that the group no longer becomes a group about something, it becomes the NFJ's group. now, in the case of my group, i have to admit that i trusted the NFJ more readily than a lot of other members, and he tended to ignore people who i felt acted in ways that were detrimental to the group. however, i feel like i was okay with it because our conceptions of what the group should be were very similar. if i had different ideas, i may have been less content.

    i am very much in favor of group mission statements for this reason in groups whose leaders will inevitably change (for example, in college groups whose leaders will graduate). that keeps the group anchored to a mission agreed upon by all individuals up front, and delineates the boundaries for what can be questioned and what cannot. people can then latch onto that mission as they please - through Ni envisioning, Fi idealism, whatever - but there's something besides people defining what the group is about, which gives the group itself - as a whole - a lasting identity.

    though of course in the case of a band, which may not exist without certain members, that is less necessarily applicable.

Similar Threads

  1. [ISFP] Friend need some help in understanding ISFP actions!
    By pecan111 in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-13-2009, 12:46 AM
  2. I need professional help
    By entropie in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-06-2009, 01:31 AM
  3. [ENFP] I need some help with my mom.
    By BlackCat in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-26-2009, 03:18 AM
  4. [INFP] I need some help with an INFP...
    By Nadiar in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-03-2008, 01:48 PM
  5. [ENFP] please i need your help please read
    By Eng.daisy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-01-2008, 09:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO