[INFJ] INFJs: What Is Your Read On This?

[Lenian]

I'm in a relationship with an INFJ and it's been about a year and a half. And I have been wondering for several months how healthy she is mentally.

She comes from a very verbally abusive home. I mean, I'm not on a deep friendship level with either her mom or dad and in the little time I've spent with her around her home both her mom and dad have lashed out at her. Her mother is covert-aggressive. And she is terribly turned-off with her mom and generally makes it a point to avoid her most all the time.

She tested INFJ with zero 'S'. This makes sense to me as she sometimes lashes out at me out of the blue. I never respond in spite or abruptly..always kind and after well-considered thought and careful, calm reason to her outbursts. And that is why I am writing this post..because it's getting too often these outbursts happen.

I don't want to marry an unbalanced INFJ..I mean I know I want an INFJ..and I know no one is perfectly balanced..I just don't want to get into marriage, children, etc. and start an unbalanced household.

It's getting on my nerves and I'm not the type of man to just 'salute'.

What do you healthy INFJs think? What would you do?

She keeps texting me and it's not even a relationship where people talk half as much as type. I know INFJs like to read more than speak..that's no deal-breaker tho.

It's blame a lot. Doesn't matter what it just seems it's a mountain out of a mole hill on things like what I wear. I think everyone can wear whatever it is they choose..not play passive-aggressive because whatever the other person is wearing isn't of the liking of the other.

I'm in my late 30s and she's almost 30. And I see quite a few other things that are simply, high-school'ish' in maturity levels..I put up with all of that and am beginning to wonder how her maturity is so far behind what is normal for a 30-year old.

She still lives with her parents, but is very successful at what she does. When asked 'Why don't you get your own place?' she got all upset and blamed it on me. I would think if one can't stand one's mother (and yes the mother does indeed aggravate her and most everyone else..barges into her room unannounced, is very critical of her about things like her clothes and her voting choice, (almost anything)...things which most people don't find aggravating. Criticized her dad for having a hobby. Just unnacceptable. She still stays there and doesn't move out.

I got us a place and she stayed there. Then I lost my job and she covered the rent for the remainder of the lease. She makes about 3 times what I do. Then she told me she didn't really live there and was just staying there to hang out with me. I can't believe this is an INFJ. She says she loves me. She wants children. One time in an outburst at me she told me if one day we have kids and things aren't going well...that that's it.

She criticized me today for not finding a job yet in this economy. I just don't sense teamwork from her. Like a family. When times are tough healthy couples join together tighter..which is healthy. I feel she values my negatives over my positives. I seldom if ever she compliments me for my good traits..NEVER! It's usually an outburst combined with criticisms. Feels like someone trying to enslave another or get one to submit.

Sometimes it's great. I wonder about her core. I have serious concerns about her fitness as a wife and a mother. I would think it's good for most people to learn responsibilities from young adulthood how to deal with life's issues..It's as she has gotten off to a real bad start in life with her verbally abusive household on many levels.

About every two or three months she gives me an ultimatum..something like "Does this really need to just be done? I'd really like to not waste any of our time." Usually starts over something like me not sweeping the carpet or folding her clothes..or not having found a job yet. (I moved to be with her because she wouldn't move to where my job was) Now the economy is in the hole and most of my job leads have dried up..I have about 12 different recruiters working to find me a job. And I have quite a lot of experience and expertise at what I do..a proven track record, most recruiters express enthusiasm over my resume and excitement at wanting to place me with several companies..the job market is just that bad right now.

INFJs and others, what are your thoughts? I would think Sensors would be particularly suited to handling these difficult things, even tho they aren't predominantly 'N'.

I suspect it's some combination of these:
A.) It's Ne testing to see if I can handle her over time
B.) She wants to order me around (I won't be ordered around by anyone and am least likely to do so and have told her this...to which her reply was 'You will..you'll see. HAHA thinking that seed will actually grow inside me. NOT!!! sorry )...as witnessed by her mother orders about everyone around for no apparent reason other than, I think, is a very unhealthy psychotic manipulative ENFJ.
C.) She is lazy and wants a guy as a meal ticket even tho she is capable of earning an income
D.) Feels nervous as she has never taken the responsibility and had her own place/apartment even in college

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

I would have a really hard time with any passive-aggressive behavior in my SO. Knowing why she is the way she is helps, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.

I don't think you are at the point where you should even be considering marrying this woman, if it is as bad as you describe. I personally want to be on a team with myself and my SO and we would be supportive and kind to one another.

I also wouldn't call myself 100% healthy, but I know where my trouble spots are and I do actively try to keep them in check. I'm very interested in having a healthy relationship, and in being assertive/speaking up for my needs, and it's something I actively work on. If she doesn't see her issues on her own, and doesn't own up that it's her responsibility to make her life better/more healthy, she will never magically wake up one day and be the person you want her to be.

 

[ilovelurking]

I wouldn't call myself 100% healthy, either.

I do believe she's that way because she comes from a verbally abusive home. She can be a better person than who she is now, though, if she sees fit to change her ways.

I wouldn't marry anyone like her. Even as an INFJ, I prefer to be in a relationship where we can be a team of two of us.

 

[violaine]

My take on what you've written is that she sounds insecure and she leaps to conclusions, which stands to reason if she wasn't raised in a very loving environment. She might be in the habit of anticipating bad things and having negative expectations as to how much people care for her. She might relate almost everything you do to how you feel about her.

She is probably running on her hunches if she is off-the-charts N and not even aware that she does this. It would be helpful to short-circuit that process so that she can learn to question her hunches.

INFJs tend to be personal and deliberate whereas ENTPs seem to be impersonal and not deliberate/spontaneous. I think it can lead to big misunderstandings when those basic differences aren't taken into account. Lots of flex needed if you are at opposite ends from each other on those scales.

In any case, I would talk with her to see if she is jumping to conclusions/has negative expectations that she overlays onto your actions. If so, I would explain that you don't work as she does and that everything you do is not indicative of your feelings for her. INFJs can be in the bad habit of seeing the personal angle in everything. Which is why you might get such a strong reaction from her to something you've done that is impersonal to you but made her, essentially, feel unloved (not saying this is a warranted reaction).

^BTW, this is an INFJ hunch/shot in the dark, so take with a large grain of salt.

The thing I would be serious about though is deciding to move on after a period of time if it's clear that you don't have a good relationship.

 

[HiddenAutumn]

The biggest red flag I see is that she actually told you that you will one day submit to being ordered around by her. Some people aren't very self aware (although most INFJs are too self-aware) and they don't realize they are being bossy, but it's clear from what she said to you that she knows she's being bossy and controlling and she's not sorry. We all have our issues, but when someone's that unapologetic about them it's a pretty good sign they aren't going to change. People have to want to change. I would move on if I were you.

 

[skylights]

well, i'm not an INFJ, but read and was curious...

- why are you with her? / what are the positives?

- is she in counseling or would she be willing to go?

 

[NoMoreFun]

The biggest red flag I see is that she actually told you that you will one day submit to being ordered around by her. Some people aren't very self aware (although most INFJs are too self-aware) and they don't realize they are being bossy, but it's clear from what she said to you that she knows she's being bossy and controlling and she's not sorry. We all have our issues, but when someone's that unapologetic about them it's a pretty good sign they aren't going to change. People have to want to change. I would move on if I were you.

Another big red flag is her living with her unhealthy parents even though she obviously has a choice not to. She doesn't want to be happy. (Ask any shrink.)

Get out now. Seriously. This will not change.

The only thing that really matters with your significant other is how that person treats you. There really isn't any other merit that should get a higher priority in a relationship.

 

[FakePlasticAlice]

I hate to say it, but i can really relate to your girlfriend.. i am, myself, an unhealthy INFJ..and not just a little unhealthy but quite unhealthy. I am also close to 30 and grew up in a verbally abusive home (but the verbal abuse came from my step-father who is now gone), but i also hated and resented my completely unemotional mother for most of my life..however we are both coming around now. I continued to live with my mother despite hating her..and i recently moved back in for financial/health reasons. Things are quite well with her now..but they haven't been for most of my life. And sometimes we still slip into our old patterns. My reasons for staying so many years was because of debilitating anxiety.. which put a further strain on our relationship because i was seen as lazy for so long, which is most definitely not me. While anxiety may not be her reason for staying (unless of course you think there is an issue there) we can become quite addicted to bad relationships especially when that's what is "home" for us.

My take on what you've written is that she sounds insecure and she leaps to conclusions, which stands to reason if she wasn't raised in a very loving environment. She might be in the habit of anticipating bad things and having negative expectations as to how much people care for her. She might relate almost everything you do to how you feel about her.

She is probably running on her hunches if she is off-the-charts N and not even aware that she does this. It would be helpful to short-circuit that process so that she can learn to question her hunches.

INFJs tend to be personal and deliberate whereas ENTPs seem to be impersonal and not deliberate/spontaneous. I think it can lead to big misunderstandings when those basic differences aren't taken into account. Lots of flex needed if you are at opposite ends from each other on those scales.

In any case, I would talk with her to see if she is jumping to conclusions/has negative expectations that she overlays onto your actions. If so, I would explain that you don't work as she does and that everything you do is not indicative of your feelings for her. INFJs can be in the bad habit of seeing the personal angle in everything. Which is why you might get such a strong reaction from her to something you've done that is impersonal to you but made her, essentially, feel unloved (not saying this is a warranted reaction).

I think violaine is spot on here! I have been exactly like this and sometimes still am..however my self-awareness is quite high and i'm am really working on myself.. so while i do have outbursts i can always settle down..see i was in the wrong..and apologize.... the bad news..it took me a long time to get to this point! EVERY little breath you take can be taken as in insult... my boyfriend is ISTP - living in the present, not very aware of his emotions .. so i sometimes take great offense when he means nothing ill at all and he can't understand why.. my biggest help in dealing with this type of relationship has been typology.. learning about his type and knowing that it's not personal at all! And constantly keeping an eye on myself and catching myself when doing these things, using my judgment on myself rather than just everyone else. When i go to jump to a conclusion in my head that he sighed really heavy because he hates me...i stop myself and see how ridiculous that is. He is also VERY understanding of this as i keep the lines of communication open regarding my issues so that i'm not only aware but he is too. However, she doesn't seem to be self-aware at all and probably justifies everything she does to herself as well as to you.

There most definitely is hope for her...but 2 things that really need to happen before she can start to become healthy is she NEEDS to move out of that house if things aren't becoming better there...and probably live alone rather than with you for a while, or even with roommates. She also needs to start using her judgment on herself as well as others..this was my biggest help! Just taking a step back at how i view everything and applying those same things to my inner thought process before i go off the handle on someone. It's a long road and i do not thing this woman is ready for kids or marriage at all...and it's not a road you can force her down either. So while there is most definitely hope for her, it's a long process that begins with her and no-one else can do it. At this point in her life i do not think she can be in a healthy relationship:/ And you shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

I hope that made sense..i couldn't take the time to write it as i usually would. I know i related it a lot to myself, but it was difficult not to when i see myself so strongly in what you described. I hope it gives you SOME insight. Remember..once something is bringing more negativity to your life than anything else it's YOUR responsibility to make your life more positive..you really need to put yourself first here!

Goodluck! I hope you figure things out

 

[Lenian]

well, i'm not an INFJ, but read and was curious...

- why are you with her? / what are the positives?

- is she in counseling or would she be willing to go?

I love her. I decided to give myself to someone selflessly.

 

[cascadeco]

^Lenian, what exactly are you seeking out of this thread? If you love her and have decided to commit 'selflessly' to her, it almost sounds like you're going to continue seeing her regardless of all of this. Is this the case? Or are you wanting feedback so as to know whether you want to continue being with her?

As for my read on the situation, I don't think it sounds good, at all, right now. She doesn't seem healthy and I can't personally relate to most of her behaviors. I know I haven't had these behaviors in current or previous relationships, at least. I'm not saying I don't have my stumbling areas, but I don't relate to any that you're speaking of.

Also, many of your own comments in the OP - your own doubts, your questioning of her behavior and the nature of your relationship, and whether you see longterm possibilities as a result of where she's at right now, makes my 'read' on your Relationship not-so-great as well. I mean, it is admirable and mature to recognize that every relationship is going to have its challenges, and to work on differences and always work to see the others' pov and to flex at times just due to the nature of what it means to approach life jointly vs. just being on your own, but all of this should be pretty balanced -- *mutual* respect and value of the other, and a mutual desire to grow together. From your description of where she's at now, I don't think she's really 'there' yet in terms of being able to give and understand on her side.

The question is - are you ok with this? Are you actually ok with how everything is currently? I don't think you are, since you are posting in the first place. So, if you would go to her, start talking, and start stating where you're at, what your needs are, etc, and what you think needs to happen to make the relationship work, then do you think she'd be able to meet you halfway and start working on making changes in her life? Change like this isn't going to happen overnight. So are you ok if things continue like this for another year or more? Are you ok if 3 yrs down the road she's still battling the same demons?

 

[Lenian]

So, if you would go to her, start talking, and start stating where you're at, what your needs are, etc, and what you think needs to happen to make the relationship work, then do you think she'd be able to meet you halfway and start working on making changes in her life? Change like this isn't going to happen overnight. So are you ok if things continue like this for another year or more? Are you ok if 3 yrs down the road she's still battling the same demons?

I wouldn't be okay if this year she's still not up and taking an active role in her own resuscitation, demonstrating willingness to mutually balance our relationship.

 

[Curator]

Not really knowing her personally, or you, Id suggest couples counseling... but honestly, I cant see myself ever wanting to be with somebody so unhealthy and admittedly controlling, no matter how much I loved her... I have ended up in the past in a relationship with some one who was exactly as you have described her... it took me awhile to see it, but once I did, it hurt, but I made the separation quick... thats one thing couples counseling can be really good for, it will either end up helping the couple reach an understanding and work through things, or it will show them that they just should not be together... at least from what I have seen... I gather from your description of her, that if you suggested counseling just for her, she would not take that very well, and may not even take the couples counseling suggestion very well either...

 

[Lenian]

... at least from what I have seen... I gather from your description of her, that if you suggested counseling just for her, she would not take that very well, and may not even take the couples counseling suggestion very well either...

She didn't, you were right.

 

[Lenian]

I would have a really hard time with any passive-aggressive behavior in my SO. Knowing why she is the way she is helps, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.

I don't think you are at the point where you should even be considering marrying this woman, if it is as bad as you describe. I personally want to be on a team with myself and my SO and we would be supportive and kind to one another.

I also wouldn't call myself 100% healthy, but I know where my trouble spots are and I do actively try to keep them in check. I'm very interested in having a healthy relationship, and in being assertive/speaking up for my needs, and it's something I actively work on. If she doesn't see her issues on her own, and doesn't own up that it's her responsibility to make her life better/more healthy, she will never magically wake up one day and be the person you want her to be.

Thanks.

 

[Lenian]

The biggest red flag I see is that she actually told you that you will one day submit to being ordered around by her. Some people aren't very self aware (although most INFJs are too self-aware) and they don't realize they are being bossy, but it's clear from what she said to you that she knows she's being bossy and controlling and she's not sorry. We all have our issues, but when someone's that unapologetic about them it's a pretty good sign they aren't going to change. People have to want to change. I would move on if I were you.

Red Flag went up in my mind certainly

 

[Lenian]

I wouldn't call myself 100% healthy, either.

I do believe she's that way because she comes from a verbally abusive home. She can be a better person than who she is now, though, if she sees fit to change her ways.

I wouldn't marry anyone like her. Even as an INFJ, I prefer to be in a relationship where we can be a team of two of us.

It's very saddening..on many levels.

 

[Lenian]

My take on what you've written is that she sounds insecure and she leaps to conclusions, which stands to reason if she wasn't raised in a very loving environment. She might be in the habit of anticipating bad things and having negative expectations as to how much people care for her. She might relate almost everything you do to how you feel about her.

She is probably running on her hunches if she is off-the-charts N and not even aware that she does this. It would be helpful to short-circuit that process so that she can learn to question her hunches.

INFJs tend to be personal and deliberate whereas ENTPs seem to be impersonal and not deliberate/spontaneous. I think it can lead to big misunderstandings when those basic differences aren't taken into account. Lots of flex needed if you are at opposite ends from each other on those scales.

In any case, I would talk with her to see if she is jumping to conclusions/has negative expectations that she overlays onto your actions. If so, I would explain that you don't work as she does and that everything you do is not indicative of your feelings for her. INFJs can be in the bad habit of seeing the personal angle in everything. Which is why you might get such a strong reaction from her to something you've done that is impersonal to you but made her, essentially, feel unloved (not saying this is a warranted reaction).

^BTW, this is an INFJ hunch/shot in the dark, so take with a large grain of salt.

The thing I would be serious about though is deciding to move on after a period of time if it's clear that you don't have a good relationship.

WoW! Accurate thoughts! I'm impressed!

 

[Lenian]

I hate to say it, but i can really relate to your girlfriend.. i am, myself, an unhealthy INFJ..and not just a little unhealthy but quite unhealthy. I am also close to 30 and grew up in a verbally abusive home (but the verbal abuse came from my step-father who is now gone), but i also hated and resented my completely unemotional mother for most of my life..however we are both coming around now. I continued to live with my mother despite hating her..and i recently moved back in for financial/health reasons. Things are quite well with her now..but they haven't been for most of my life. And sometimes we still slip into our old patterns. My reasons for staying so many years was because of debilitating anxiety.. which put a further strain on our relationship because i was seen as lazy for so long, which is most definitely not me. While anxiety may not be her reason for staying (unless of course you think there is an issue there) we can become quite addicted to bad relationships especially when that's what is "home" for us.



I think violaine is spot on here! I have been exactly like this and sometimes still am..however my self-awareness is quite high and i'm am really working on myself.. so while i do have outbursts i can always settle down..see i was in the wrong..and apologize.... the bad news..it took me a long time to get to this point! EVERY little breath you take can be taken as in insult... my boyfriend is ISTP - living in the present, not very aware of his emotions .. so i sometimes take great offense when he means nothing ill at all and he can't understand why.. my biggest help in dealing with this type of relationship has been typology.. learning about his type and knowing that it's not personal at all! And constantly keeping an eye on myself and catching myself when doing these things, using my judgment on myself rather than just everyone else. When i go to jump to a conclusion in my head that he sighed really heavy because he hates me...i stop myself and see how ridiculous that is. He is also VERY understanding of this as i keep the lines of communication open regarding my issues so that i'm not only aware but he is too. However, she doesn't seem to be self-aware at all and probably justifies everything she does to herself as well as to you.

There most definitely is hope for her...but 2 things that really need to happen before she can start to become healthy is she NEEDS to move out of that house if things aren't becoming better there...and probably live alone rather than with you for a while, or even with roommates. She also needs to start using her judgment on herself as well as others..this was my biggest help! Just taking a step back at how i view everything and applying those same things to my inner thought process before i go off the handle on someone. It's a long road and i do not thing this woman is ready for kids or marriage at all...and it's not a road you can force her down either. So while there is most definitely hope for her, it's a long process that begins with her and no-one else can do it. At this point in her life i do not think she can be in a healthy relationship:/ And you shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

I hope that made sense..i couldn't take the time to write it as i usually would. I know i related it a lot to myself, but it was difficult not to when i see myself so strongly in what you described. I hope it gives you SOME insight. Remember..once something is bringing more negativity to your life than anything else it's YOUR responsibility to make your life more positive..you really need to put yourself first here!

Goodluck! I hope you figure things out

All good accurate thoughts and ideas! I knew I could rely on you INFJs..You are Amazing. Really.
Now I just realize how sad it is for me. Seeing the contrast between what healthy INFJs look like and, well you know.

 

[Curator]

Yeah...she does not seem like she is in a good enough place to be in a healthy relationship at this point in her life, however things go, I hope she gains some greater insight into herself and develops better tools for dealing with her negative feelings and impulses, and that you both end up happy, whether together or apart.

 

[Lenian]

There most definitely is hope for her...but 2 things that really need to happen before she can start to become healthy is she NEEDS to move out of that house if things aren't becoming better there...and probably live alone rather than with you for a while, or even with roommates. She also needs to start using her judgment on herself as well as others..this was my biggest help! Just taking a step back at how i view everything and applying those same things to my inner thought process before i go off the handle on someone. It's a long road and i do not thing this woman is ready for kids or marriage at all...and it's not a road you can force her down either. So while there is most definitely hope for her, it's a long process that begins with her and no-one else can do it. At this point in her life i do not think she can be in a healthy relationship:/ And you shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

I hope that made sense..i couldn't take the time to write it as i usually would. I know i related it a lot to myself, but it was difficult not to when i see myself so strongly in what you described. I hope it gives you SOME insight. Remember..once something is bringing more negativity to your life than anything else it's YOUR responsibility to make your life more positive..you really need to put yourself first here!

Goodluck! I hope you figure things out

I thank you SOO much. All of you. And yes I made these suggestions and it felt like a silly child was talking back to me switching subject. As an ENTP the one thing that cuts at our core, and this is the only thing that really gets to us..is getting undermined so I felt that the rejection of truth repeatedly right after it being presented to her and manifested in a behavior that was like a child refusing to understand..felt like my being undermined. And that really really bothers ENTPs.

So you're right it feels like she's not in a place to have a relationship and I wouldn't suggest anyone for her at this point. My nerves feel worn down.