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  1. #41
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Black cloud of death syndrome. That's exactly the problem I have with my roommate right now. Try to avoid miserable people at all costs. They will drag you down.

    Whenever someone is miserable make a point of intentially ignoring them. Make sure it is obvious that you are snubbing them. But reward them with friendliness when they are in a good mood, this will train them to be in a good mood in your presence. Punish them for miserable behavior , reward them for happy behavior. You have a special gift in that you have the power to make people feel good. Make use of it.

    Bet you didn't know you can train people like dogs:footballreferee:, did you?
    It is possible to avoid one people but it's very difficult to have an affect on the atmosphere of a workplace where several hundred people are working not to mention the whole organization which is much bigger. It's very hard in the organization because the source of the bad atmosphere is invisible.

    When dealing with people outside of office
    I basically avoid people who pull me down mentally or who take advantage of my energies or friendliness. In some cases I just have to deal some people for the sake of others (some relatives) and in those cases I completely withdraw. In those situations nobody would recognize me as ENFP.

  2. #42
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Whenever someone is miserable make a point of intentially ignoring them. Make sure it is obvious that you are snubbing them. But reward them with friendliness when they are in a good mood, this will train them to be in a good mood in your presence. Punish them for miserable behavior , reward them for happy behavior. You have a special gift in that you have the power to make people feel good. Make use of it.

    Bet you didn't know you can train people like dogs:footballreferee:, did you?
    Except that all you are doing with that kind of "training" is teaching people to FAKE happiness around you. When people are miserable, they won't suddenly become happy just because you are snubbing them or "punishing" them. Quite the contrary: they'll only become even more miserable. But they'll hide it from you. Which, granted, will make YOUR life easier.

    But don't fool yourself: you're not actually making THEM feel good...

  3. #43
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Black cloud of death syndrome. That's exactly the problem I have with my roommate right now. Try to avoid miserable people at all costs. They will drag you down.

    Whenever someone is miserable make a point of intentially ignoring them. Make sure it is obvious that you are snubbing them. But reward them with friendliness when they are in a good mood, this will train them to be in a good mood in your presence. Punish them for miserable behavior , reward them for happy behavior. You have a special gift in that you have the power to make people feel good. Make use of it.

    Bet you didn't know you can train people like dogs:footballreferee:, did you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Except that all you are doing with that kind of "training" is teaching people to FAKE happiness around you. When people are miserable, they won't suddenly become happy just because you are snubbing them or "punishing" them. Quite the contrary: they'll only become even more miserable. But they'll hide it from you. Which, granted, will make YOUR life easier.

    But don't fool yourself: you're not actually making THEM feel good...
    LOL,
    I'm a bit amused of the people training part (Wandering made me remember my little story here.)
    It reminds me of another INTP (in real life) who told me that he could manipulate people to do anything. It was kind of funny because people did notice that and eventually he wasn't well liked at all.

    The sad part was that the INTP in question actually had very poor social skills and he couldn't make people to do what he wanted. He only made people mad. So, that was it about his manipulation. It didn't work even if he had logically came to conclusion about how people should be treated. It worked against him. I never had enough heart to tell him that it didn't work. I felt sorry for him.

  4. #44
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    It reminds me of another INTP (in real life) who told me that he could manipulate people to do anything. It was kind of funny because people did notice that and eventually he wasn't well liked at all.
    Well, yeah! I hate it when people try to manipulate the way I "should" be feeling. I'll often humor them just to get them off my back, but I'll resent them big time for it.

  5. #45
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Except that all you are doing with that kind of "training" is teaching people to FAKE happiness around you. When people are miserable, they won't suddenly become happy just because you are snubbing them or "punishing" them. Quite the contrary: they'll only become even more miserable. But they'll hide it from you. Which, granted, will make YOUR life easier.

    But don't fool yourself: you're not actually making THEM feel good...
    You are not their psychotherapist. You have to lookout for yourself.

  6. #46
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    LOL,
    I'm a bit amused of the people training part (Wandering made me remember my little story here.)
    It reminds me of another INTP (in real life) who told me that he could manipulate people to do anything. It was kind of funny because people did notice that and eventually he wasn't well liked at all.

    The sad part was that the INTP in question actually had very poor social skills and he couldn't make people to do what he wanted. He only made people mad. So, that was it about his manipulation. It didn't work even if he had logically came to conclusion about how people should be treated. It worked against him. I never had enough heart to tell him that it didn't work. I felt sorry for him.
    I don't really manipulate people. I know how to do it, and I do sometimes play games with peoples minds just to amuse myself, but I rarely follow through. There are several people around me I could use it on, but it just seems like a waste of effort. I have other more important stuff to focus on.

  7. #47
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I don't really manipulate people. I know how to do it, and I do sometimes play games with peoples minds just to amuse myself, but I rarely follow through. There are several people around me I could use it on, but it just seems like a waste of effort. I have other more important stuff to focus on.
    I'm an INTP. I know how to do a lot of stuff that I don't actually practice. We absorb knowledge like you make friends.

  8. #48
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I don't really manipulate people. I know how to do it, and I do sometimes play games with peoples minds just to amuse myself, but I rarely follow through. There are several people around me I could use it on, but it just seems like a waste of effort. I have other more important stuff to focus on.
    I didn't mean you , I don't even know you in real life. I just remebered that that incident after Wandering's post and your post about training people.

    Training people - it is not possible if the people do not want to be trained because people do have a will of their own.

    Other thing - I don't think it would be as easy to "play" with people as you think. Logical analyses does not apply to people because people are not basically rational and they do not always act as you would expect. But with your writing you proved that the people manipualtion thinking is more common to INTP's than just that one INTP I knew at office. I still say to you that it's not as easy as you would think.

    Funny thing was that I could as easily scare that INTP away with showing strog emotions and he really lookes scared and chaged the room really fast! So, people's behavior can really surprise the all logical INTP's.

  9. #49
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    I didn't mean you , I don't even know you in real life. I just remebered that that incident after Wandering's post and your post about training people.

    Training people - it is not possible if the people do not want to be trained because people do have a will of their own.

    Other thing - I don't think it would be as easy to "play" with people as you think. Logical analyses does not apply to people because people are not basically rational and they do not always act as you would expect. But with your writing you proved that the people manipualtion thinking is more common to INTP's than just that one INTP I knew at office. I still say to you that it's not as easy as you would think.

    Funny thing was that I could as easily scare that INTP away with showing strog emotions and he really lookes scared and chaged the room really fast! So, people's behavior can really surprise the all logical INTP's.

    ENFPs are typically naturally very good at manipulating people but you generally tend to have strong values which prevents you from misusing that ability. But ENFPs gone bad are some of the best manipulators around. Look out for ENFPs with low self-esteem. Turn and run!

    There is a difference between maniuplation and persuasion by the way. They are very simlar and share a lot of psychology, but manipulation is only ever temporary. When someone is manipulated they are tricked into doing something they would not have otherwise done. When someone is persuaded, they are won over, heart and mind.

  10. #50
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    ENFPs are typically naturally very good at manipulating people but you generally tend to have strong values which prevents you from misusing that ability. But ENFPs gone bad are some of the best manipulators around. Look out for ENFPs with low self-esteem. Turn and run!

    There is a difference between maniuplation and persuasion by the way. They are very simlar and share a lot of psychology, but manipulation is only ever temporary. When someone is manipulated they are tricked into doing something they would not have otherwise done. When someone is persuaded, they are won over, heart and mind.
    I agree with both of your assumptions:
    ENFP's can be really good manipulators.
    Persuasion and manipulation are not the same.

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