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  1. #11
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    although I think there is a difference between being polite and being positive, I think that attitude it a result of understanding some things...

    if happiness is pursuit of the positive rather than flight from the fear-inducing, a happy person must see the positive, and in doing so, learns to appreciate it in typical behavior/reward fashion.

    it makes sense that these sort of people, in the end, could feel fulfilled to the point where they no longer need to "take", or in this case, be competitive and "take" something from an interaction with another person

    consider someone who has everything, in the truest sense of that phrase, and what their attitude would look like. consider someone who has nothing (and knows it) and consider their attitude. by reacting to the latter type, you are actually skewing yourself towards their unnecessarily competitive behavior instead of away from it. i dont think these people are worth your energy, however, in putting the aforementioned understanding into practice, it doesn't hurt you for them to learn a thing or two from your example
    Last edited by Grayscale; 02-22-2008 at 10:30 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I know that NF people in general (and especially NF women in Western culture, because they're socialized to be "nice") have mentioned this struggle to me over how they always feel they must be the "nice" one and feeling taken-advantage-of because of it. I don't think it is purely an NF thing, but I think it is easier for NFs to find themselves in that position.

    And you avoid people who don't respond to your friendliness because it hurts to experience someone being mean to you, and avoiding them is your only protection against hurt -- and not just being hurt, but (probably) at feeling the anger grow inside and being afraid you're going to react poorly and violate your own values if you continue to be mistreated by them.

    I experience all of this a lot too. I've always been the "nice, thoughtful one" who understood other people even if they misunderstood me, and I was always trying to empathize with them. Over time I have had to learn to put up some boundaries and let people know when they're crossing them -- and how to do it in a mature kind way, not a "get the hell out of my life, jerk" way. And also practice maintaining my own inner peace even when some other person seems to be treating me unkindly or unfairly.

    it's something many people seemingly have to work through, just by being human.
    I appreciate your honesty Jennifer. It has helped me.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I've never been nice to people who weren't nice to me, unless I was forced to do so by circumstance (working/etc), but I think this has more to do with how I was raised than type (my family is pretty tough).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #14
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    what im not understanding here is why one's decision to be positive has anything to do with how they act towards you... unless being "nice" really means something else? that give/take seems to smell a bit of passive-aggressiveness.

  5. #15
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Because you understand the meaning of "The Golden Rule". Just because someone else is a douche doesn't mean you should lose any of your integrity. I'm guessing that if they are being mean to you they are perfectly aware that they are doing it. Usually when someone is mean to someone else they are trying to fish out some kind of reaction out of them, and if you don't give it to them then the jokes on them. Drown them with kindness and watch them squirm. At least this is what works for me.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    ...
    I basically try to avoid people who are not responding to my friendliness. It's not always possible (at work for example) and that's why I would need to change this "habit" of mine.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    I didn't mean that me being rude to them is an option, it's just that I'm nice even if they are rude and that feels wrong for me and for them too.
    ...
    I don't think there is such a thing as a person being too nice or too friendly or too polite if it's all genuine.

    You seem to be saying that you want to change the way you are because you don't like the way things are working with other people right now.
    What exactly is the problem you are trying to change?

  7. #17
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Alcearos, I'm not trying to say you aren't nice (you seem like you are ) but what makes you think you ARE nice? Why should someone have to accept and respond to your "niceness?" This is something I'm coming to terms with, but I'm realizing that just because I extend something more than basic politeness to people, it's up to them if they want to accept it or not; they're not beholden to me. If they don't I can't really be mad at them unless they are being rude and unfriendly. Yeah, I'll be like what's this bitches' problem, but they didn't do anything but refuse my niceness, I can't make them accept it.

    I make a distinction between being nice and being polite. Nice is more advanced than politeness. Politeness is saying excuse me when I step on someone's toe, nice is getting them a pillow and ice if swelling develops. If someone is habitually mean-spirited to you and you're going above and beyond what's necessary to harmonize the situation then they're saying jump and you're asking how high. If you're jumping that high perhaps you should try out for an Olympic team. It's only so much you can do to prove how much you want to get along before you begin to disrespect yourself.

    I like the way athenian describes it:
    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    What I do if I'm forced to be around people I don't like is to just behave coldly and politely. I do the minimum required to seem polite, even though I actually hate their guts. I give them a minimal greeting and interact with them on a professional level, but keep my emotional status "set" as if they were a stranger and would never get any closer... so I don't even acknowledge them on a personal level, although I acknowledge them professionally and in terms of socially required levels of politeness. Basically, I acknowledge their literal existence and the expectations attached to their presence socially, but stop acknowledging their humanity in some odd way. I usually manage to get along with people well enough not to have to do this, though, but I'm pretty good at doing this when I have to.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    My best guess is that you are afraid of getting rejected and abandoned, so you let people shit on you as long as they don't tell you you're worthless in their eyes.

    Meh, I tend to do the same thing.

    Being nice is a good thing, I think, but you also have to be nice to yourself and learn when to stand up for yourself and extricate yourself from a situation, the same way you would do for a helpless friend who was being picked on.

  9. #19
    Member Camelopardalis's Avatar
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    I'm usually warm and friendly to all of my friends and acquaintences, but on some people, it just isn't worth it. On people who are snobby, arrogant and showy, I'm usually cold but polite. Forgive me. I've tried to like them, but they threw it right back at me. If they try to talk to me, I would usually look up from my book, respond with an 'Ah, is that so?' and return to my book, signaling the end of the conversation. If they're really being a jackass, I turn into my 'debater' self and start criticizing everything they said that was logically wrong or hyprocritical, while upholding my icy image. With these people, I try to limit my answers to 'yes' or 'no'. I'd prefer to stay away. Even when people start cussing at me, I always refrain from doing the same. It's just not worth it stooping to their level.

    "I never understood what the **** is your problem."
    "My problem is, I'm being talked to by a cursing hooligan who finds it hard to control their trap."

    ENFP's are very nice people; one of my friends is of this type, but if you're nice to just anyone, you might just find it exploited by some people. People have definitely exploited my friendliness.
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  10. #20
    Member ferrisbueller's Avatar
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    This may just be an ENFP thing, but other ENFP's and I have talked about how we really want other people to like us, even if they aren't friendly or we don't like them. It may stem from a desire to be liked more than from a desire to be a good person.
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