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  1. #1
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Default ENFP/INTJ Relationship

    So, I have a relationship with an ENFP girl that I've known for a little over a year now. Last March, we really started to get close. We saw each other nearly every day, expressed our love for each other, and even talked about marrying someday. At the end of May, she suddenly decided that we needed to cool down. I agreed. Moving as quickly as we did in a romantic direction is unhealthy. We remained friends however and still saw each other at least once a week. Fast forward to July. Due to issues with finding employment, I was basically forced to move away. She told me that it hurt more than she could even express. I believed her. We maintained spotty communication with each other until the end of August. I made a trip home and saw her in person. That very day, she told me that she thought I was becoming too dependent on her, and to not contact her anymore. She seemed very sad about it, like it wasn't something she wanted to do. We hugged and parted ways. I didn't speak to her again until November. I made another trip up for thanksgiving, and saw her at a Christmas party. I knew she was going to be there, so I gave her a birthday gift, since her birthday was also coming up. I could tell she really appreciated it. She apologized for ending our relationship so suddenly. She also told me to feel free to email her or call her sometime. So, I left. Several days later she contacted me and told me again how great the gift was and acted like whatever was wrong, it was over. So I believed it. Anyway, tried to contact her later in December, since I was up for Christmas. She didn't answer any of my phone calls or reply to my emails. I tried again yesterday, since I'm going to be up next weekend I figured it was an opportunity to see her. She did respond to my message this time. She told me that the she was still certain of the decision she made in August, and to not contact her again. I wrote up a message for her last night, pouring out my heart to her. It basically tells her exactly how much I love her, how much this hurts me, and demands an explanation for her behavior. I also said in it that if she really does want me to never contact her again, I'll respect it, but that I need to know the full reason why she did what she did first. So, what it comes down to is this: I need the input of some ENFPs. Any idea what she might be thinking? Should I send the message? Last time she told me not to contact her, I did as she asked. Since then, I've often wondered whether that was a mistake. Should I ignore her request this time so that I can get the full story, and try to fix things? Or should I just put her out of my mind as if I never knew her? Like a typical INTJ I'm not super-sensitive, but I've shed tears over this girl. I love her so much. I don't want to lose her, but if that's what she wants, I need to accept it. Anybody who can help me or give me advice, please do.
    You lose.

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  2. #2
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Laying out the situation for her and asking for an explanation is fine, so long as you make it clear that you respect her decision and are mainly looking for closure (you may want to start with that, so that she doesn't think you're just being clingy). You may want to have a trusted third party proof-read the letter to make sure you're communicating clearly with such an emotionally-charged subject.

    Unfortunately, no ENFP is qualified to tell you what's on this girl's mind, or even what might be on her mind. In theory, there shouldn't be a typical response of one type or another to romance. External and individual factors like experience are the dominant determinants of behavior in a relationship.

    Good luck, and I hope she is able to articulate the rationale behind her decision.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  3. #3
    small potatoes NotOfTwo's Avatar
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    Sorry, you are going through this. It's hard to get jerked back and forth. Been there, still there. You may not get a reasonable answer. Take care of yourself, and try not to obsess.

  4. #4
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    Hmmm. Weird. I don't know if this is an ENFP thing - I can't imagine being that certain and telling someone to not contact me if I loved them less than a year ago.

    Maybe you should send the pouring-your-heart-out message just to see how she responds to it. Maybe she's just trying to protect herself.

    There's also the possibility that she just doesn't love you in that way, but loves you as a friend, hence the sadness in hurting you.

    But we can't tell you that. I would definitely seek explanation even if for no other reason than closure.

  5. #5
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Not enough to go on..she's literally keeping you in the dark and us with it.

    The general gist of it could however be that she's not giving you a clear answer as she's fighting with herself. What I mean is..I think she's fighting logic with reason with fear. Take this for the hopefully educated guess that it is but if I were in her situation and exhibited her behavior, this would be my reasoning for it:

    a) I like you too much and it scared the living daylights out of me when we first went out, as it all happened so fast and I felt like I was getting in over my head
    b) You moved away. For logical reasons, but still, it tore out my heart and makes me emotionally doubt how you felt about me very much..ouch
    c) Cant' keep dealing with these feelings of torture, and start to rationalize the whole thing as better of to leave it as it is,
    d) Seeing you sparked something familiar, something I really really miss. I decide it's worth the risk to try again and see what's there but tell myself I'll play it cool
    e) Fear of not being able to sustain this kind of painful bond, commitment and convincing myself of the fact that logically, this aint worth it, I once again, rashly decide to put an end to it


    Basically, *IF* I'm correct, this poor girl doesn't know *what* to do. The fact that you're abiding by her decisions has her probably both insecure (he doesn't care enough to fight for me/come back/he's insecure as well as me and that makes me more insecure-type of feelings), and at the same time very much appreciative of you...increasing the conflict within, which of course, she wants to get away from.

    Y'all need to make a decision
    If you truly care for her, see if there's a way to make it work. Be adamant that you want her to be yours. That she definitely has a choice in the matter of course, but if it were up to you there's no being without her (yeah yeah, I know, scary for an INTJ to be that open about your feelings, but usually, you've got the confidence to pull it off. Hell, mine even told me I loved him before I was ready to say anything, in a matter of fact way )
    Show her that you'll make it work. Offer solutions for the doubt and fears she's feeling (how to maintain the relationship in a practical way, basically, and how to ensure emotional intimacy in a practical way). Show her it's not a pipe dream, if only you stick together. The two of you, against the odds, against the world, and its obstacles (it's a big and scary place, at least to me!)

    When I first met mine, he was in a different country alltogether. A month after I moved for a year to yet another country where i wasn't allowed to have visitors for 10 months, he decided he wasn't going to have me come home with some other dude. I never once doubted his word when he said he'd make it work. He found ways to contact me every day, have long intimate conversations with me, and made concrete plans to see me as soon as possible so we had something to look forward to. We had a long distance relationship for 3 years, with regular visitations and after 11 years have reverted to that pattern as we're prepping to move yet again. Communication and intimacy encourage trust and a deep connection which makes it work, ime. It's not for everyone, but if she truly is who you want to spend your life with...it's worth it. When faced with the decision to either live without him in my life or live with serious obstacles and deal with loneliness...it was an easy choice for me. Now, her fears may be greater due to individual pasts, so don't take it as a measurement, but if you can reduce them...(something you guys rock at..nothing like an INTJ to calm an insecure and fearful ENFP down) by providing security and solutions as well as reliability...you might just make it work

    If you do..expect her to flake and lose faith and have need of you to reassure her..repeatedly, especially if you cannot see each other or talk to each other suddenly for a while. We live in the moment with our feelings. They're not constant, like with an INTJ. Doesn't mean we don't generally really care for you, but the emotions in that moment are more present at any time and can make us look flaky at best, unreliable at our worst. Mine *knew* beyond a shadow of a doubt, even before I did, that I was *his*. He never fussed about my moodswings though he did get tried. I always very much appreciated that as it gave me the security I needed and made me wanna support him in everything he was trying to achieve.

    Again...this is provided I'm right in my educated guess...and that's up to you to decide or find out
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  6. #6
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    it feels pretty obvious to me that she started doubting the decision at the christmas party and went like maybe this is ok after all, but then started doubting again that maybe it was the right decision that he made earlier. or then she would have felt guilty for you bringing her a gift and her just cold bloodedly abandon you again, did what she felt was right, but backed off when you contacted her or after thinking it over again.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #7
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine
    Basically, *IF* I'm correct, this poor girl doesn't know *what* to do. The fact that you're abiding by her decisions has her probably both insecure (he doesn't care enough to fight for me/come back/he's insecure as well as me and that makes me more insecure-type of feelings), and at the same time very much appreciative of you...increasing the conflict within, which of course, she wants to get away from.
    this is kind of what i'm thinking too. one, physical presence is so importance. it's so much easier to ignore something (someone) that's not there. pretend it's not a problem. it's also really hard for me when someone puts the ball in my court with mixed signals. i don't like it. i depend a lot on the judgment of those i know well and trust, for better or for worse. i'm getting a similar pattern, i think, to what satine saw... kind of a pattern of it seeming like you don't want the intensity of the relationship, but kindling little sparks... and her really not knowing what to do... my guess, she loves you but is generally confused.

    completely hypothetically, just from her perspective:

    may - she gets insecure about how in over her head she is. you agree, thus affirming that she's too in over her head, and that you think you're both too in over your heads
    july - you move, affirming that the connection isn't as important as she once felt
    - communication is spotty, affirming that the connection isn't as important as she once felt
    august - you visit, probably rekindling her feelings, but she rationalizes and tries to deny
    nov/xmas party - you visit, rekindle again, and she feels comfortable and happy again. thinks that maybe reconnecting isn't so bad
    late december - you contact her, but it's confusing. you move away, you don't maintain constant communication, you don't seem to want the relationship as much as she possibly did, but on the other hand, you keep coming and seeing her in person. it's probably easier when you're just away and she doesn't think about the possibility of this whole thing.

    that's my best guess.

    imo, send that message - and this -
    Quote Originally Posted by Satine
    Be adamant that you want her to be yours. That she definitely has a choice in the matter of course, but if it were up to you there's no being without her
    if she does feel confused and insecure, then this is what she really needs. clear, direct affirmation of your feelings and commitment. and if that's not what she wants, well, you don't really stand to lose much. judging by the way ENFPs like to talk about their feelings, you'll probably get a huge response from her... brace yourself for potential ENFP volcano.

    good luck

  8. #8
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Okay, thanks for the help everybody, but there's nothing I can do at this point. I got a call earlier today from her brother. He told me to never contact her again, that if I did do so, he would make sure a restraining order was brought out on me, and she blocked me on facebook. (I know that makes it sound like I must have done something pretty bad, or harassed her, but I swear I haven't) There's nothing I can do. I can't call her, I can't send her the message. I've decided, if she ever does make attempt to contact me again in the future someday, I'm going to just tell her, "I've forgiven you, but I can't have anything to do with this." She's too unstable and won't even say what's going through her mind, even though she always told me that she'd never be dishonest with me. Maybe, some day, we can have another shot, but it's going to take years. She has a lot of growing up to do. I've basically decided that those chances are so slim as to be virtually impossible. I'm not going to hope for that, or do anything to work towards it, and from this point on, my life will basically operate as if I'd never met her. I don't know that I could ever stop loving her, but practically speaking, I can't let that influence my life anymore.
    You lose.

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  9. #9
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    that's a shitty situation. i'm sorry.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post

    may - she gets insecure about how in over her head she is. you agree, thus affirming that she's too in over her head, and that you think you're both too in over your heads
    july - you move, affirming that the connection isn't as important as she once felt
    - communication is spotty, affirming that the connection isn't as important as she once felt
    august - you visit, probably rekindling her feelings, but she rationalizes and tries to deny
    nov/xmas party - you visit, rekindle again, and she feels comfortable and happy again. thinks that maybe reconnecting isn't so bad
    late december - you contact her, but it's confusing. you move away, you don't maintain constant communication, you don't seem to want the relationship as much as she possibly did, but on the other hand, you keep coming and seeing her in person. it's probably easier when you're just away and she doesn't think about the possibility of this whole thing.

    that's my best guess.

    imo, send that message - and this -
    ^^I agree with this. Not sure how to describe the weird Fi bond thing. Being alone is fine or being together is fine. Even being angry is okay-but being a place if uncertainty and risk...where the future is perilous-well it feels a bit like sticking out your emotions further and further-like teetering on the edge of a cliff. If you cant be certain there is someone to catch you, it is best to just step away and avoid that pain. I suppose a weird desire to use baby Te to control risk to the much more sensitive Fi underbelly. I think that is what you are seeing with all of the yes-no, black-white behavior. She isnt unstable, I'd guess, as much as trying to manage potential emotional damage in advance and stumbling all over the place to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Okay, thanks for the help everybody, but there's nothing I can do at this point. I got a call earlier today from her brother. He told me to never contact her again, that if I did do so, he would make sure a restraining order was brought out on me, and she blocked me on facebook. (I know that makes it sound like I must have done something pretty bad, or harassed her, but I swear I haven't) There's nothing I can do. I can't call her, I can't send her the message. I've decided, if she ever does make attempt to contact me again in the future someday, I'm going to just tell her, "I've forgiven you, but I can't have anything to do with this." She's too unstable and won't even say what's going through her mind, even though she always told me that she'd never be dishonest with me. .
    I'd say she isnt dishonest-but the things going on are so Fi and so reactive, spontaneous, that they are somewhat incomprehensible to even her. Te helps me understand and predict Fi in some ways-but the first time experiencing a new Fi path-it can be rough as I dont understand what to expect or know when the hurt will end. Being close to her would have drastically helped but since that wasnt possible, she has fallen into a trap made of her own insecurity-not unexpected of someone as young as she is.

    Freeky you have adored this women and I have no doubt you love her very, very much. I am so sorry that you are left hurting and confused and you have done everything you can do. But at this point, I would say walking away is the best thing to do. She needs to alone and work though her own emotions and better understand herself. It is okay for you to distance yourself emotionally from that process and walk away as the whirlwind will only continue to hurt you as you get pushed and pulled. Your emotions are as fragile as hers and right now it isnt a good idea to leave them in her trust. Based on what are have read from your posts you are amazingly emotionally mature for an INTJ, and you have done everything you can in this situations, and I feel so much sadness for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Maybe, some day, we can have another shot, but it's going to take years. She has a lot of growing up to do. I've basically decided that those chances are so slim as to be virtually impossible. I'm not going to hope for that, or do anything to work towards it, and from this point on, my life will basically operate as if I'd never met her. I don't know that I could ever stop loving her, but practically speaking, I can't let that influence my life anymore.
    Perhaps be careful not to project this experience onto otherrelatonships you have in the future-this is something I have noticed INTJs do sometimes.

    My heart goes out to you as you really are an awesome person and dont deserve to be hurt this way.

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