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  1. #61
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    An INFP may not clue in a loved one enough if they feel hurt and are "figuring out" how they feel from their Extroverted Intuition of others and want to proceed. It can be perceived by the other person/s as "not giving me enough". It's just that the INFP needs time. They may be stuck on Extroverted Intuition on trying to 'understand' where you're (Extroverted Feeling/Thinking) coming from for too long, so even though THEY are working the issue out for/with their feelings and what they're seeing/have seen of the person to bridge it all---the other person doesn't get the info in time (INFPs you took too long!)
    Good grief, you actually know how we work!

    I think I'd originally written a post saying almost exactly what you were saying, but decided not to post for one reason or another. But yes, that is it, exactly. We need TIME, huge amounts of time to process things. If the other party is not patient enough, they will interpret this time as us being passive-aggressive. Nope, we don't even think about trying to punish you - our internal state is far, far more interesting to think about! You don't even come into it! I actually believe passive-aggression is Fe being misused. Fi doesn't bother with the other.

    The time frame is important. Fi-Ne is slow, glacially slow, for the things that really matter to it. It wants to be correct. A similar thing happens for Ti-Ne - it is fast for things that don't matter (hence wisecracks etc), but if tasked with something more important, then Ti-Ne will spend lots of time cogitating until the correct answer is achieved.


    DD I am very impressed! Especially with your recognition of healthy vs unhealthy members of any type, or mature vs immature members of any type. I have been irritated in the past by negative stereotypes that people are using - and they are based on having met one or two clearly unhealthy examples of what they have guessed is a particular type. I guess that's Ne talking - asking why people aren't more open to the possibility that they are wrong in their assumptions?

    I'm enjoying reading about INFJs as well - I sometimes go into directive mode with a friend who's having problems because Ne wants more information, but I do it very gently, and use it with huge amounts of patience - I let (what I perceive as) their Fi have its say first. I will also ask other sources instead of the person involved, simply to get a different perspective.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn
    Just a few comments....
    I have a lot written in repsonse for you, cascademn, so I haven't ignored you (even with your first response waay but I couldn't focus on it at the time lol). I thought explaining it out would be better than just telling you directly for the time being (seeee, INFJs can change the whole 'I tell you everything" err thing! and do an INFP "I show you everything" err thing

    I'm trying to figure out a bit more on how to better explain INFPs and INFJs for you and potential others as I'm trying to see (w/ regards to your perspective, firstly) on how you might've gotten the two confused or lumped in together. Fear not, I shall divulge my comments soonish! Hopefully reading the comments of other's who have understood where I'm going with their type being either INFP or INFJ will relate to you to. Where are you guys? sciski + heart + ppl I've forgotten to name =

    If it still becomes a dud in the end for you, I don't mind working on figuring out your range on the Cognitive Processes but you'll have to tell me some personal things, nothing overly personal but explained to me as how it applies to you, even in general (yipes! ). In my horrifically long response to you, I let out a lot of personal detail (which I've come to accept and don't mind sharing = somewhat like INFJ easy or improper disclosure). One personal story involves physical and emotional abuse + neglect from family.

    We don't have to rush it, though I'd like to narrow you on to your beautiful type! soon...ish!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciski View Post
    Good grief, you actually know how we work!
    *BEAMS* It feels really good when I make sense to others!

    I really feel invested in the INFP 'vs' INFJ because SO MANY have put INFPs down as this weak/jealous/lonely stereotype and overly praise INFJs as this "mystical" "allseeing + allknowing" stereotype. Both Types, as all Types are, BEAUTIFUL! (and UGLY! )

    I mean, jeez, people throw out one stereo(type) in order to buy the next big "it" stereo(type). Sometimes it works for them and helps them look good, sometimes it sucks and they hate it and think people who like it are really stupid! IMHO, though, if people would just change the few stations that they're only listening to, then they can see the stereo for what it is...a tool in seeing/hearing of the differences of others through the various stations/voices coming out to them On Air.

    (Think I'm corny with the stereo analogy, I even created Trees and Forests, so wait for it, it'sa cominnnng! )

    It's good to know how to better understand your friends and potential friends in the future!

    And...it's good to know your enemy and the potential enemy if they so become the enemy!

    That's Ni paranoia both rounds, for ya, people. Think I'm bad? You should see my INTJ sis!

    I think I'd originally written a post saying almost exactly what you were saying, but decided not to post for one reason or another. But yes, that is it, exactly. We need TIME, huge amounts of time to process things. If the other party is not patient enough, they will interpret this time as us being passive-aggressive. Nope, we don't even think about trying to punish you - our internal state is far, far more interesting to think about! You don't even come into it! I actually believe passive-aggression is Fe being misused. Fi doesn't bother with the other.
    I think it's the opposite with the passive-aggression and aggression. It would be misconstrued as passive-aggression for an INFP or when Fi is being dished out but mishandled for any other Type. Because the INFP will look so "quiet" and if angered suddenly "dishes" it out, it looks as though it was just being hidden in order to attack! So, passive-aggression. People forget how nicely passive the INFP was because the INFP was happily listening to them and figuring out their problem or finding a way to give advice so people think "Yea, that's why they are so quiet, they were just judging us on the inside!" and taken that way by the person who's upset at the INFP.

    It would likely be misconstrued as aggression by an INFJ (being so directdirectgettothepointdirectfocus!) or when Fe is being dished out but mishandled by any other Type. Since INFJs are normally direct with what they ask and what they want to know from you to get input, if they become tyrannical about it or refuse to listen to another's input, they look fiercely aggressive and people think "Oh, yea, they are SO bossy! They always tell me what to do!" and forget all the nicely directed advice/ideas that were given and taken by the person who's upset at the INFJ.

    I'm going to point out next on what I've viewed in Pride & Prejudice on, what I thought, were a potential INFP and INFJ (Can you guess which?). People made a Thread on it RIGHT when I was re-watching the movie and seeing the series for the first time. I hadn't joined then (I was obseving the forum a tiny bit). I didn't feel comfortable partaking in it and there were other Threads of interests I pursued. I figured I'd do it on my own so now I shall!

    The time frame is important. Fi-Ne is slow, glacially slow, for the things that really matter to it. It wants to be correct. A similar thing happens for Ti-Ne - it is fast for things that don't matter (hence wisecracks etc), but if tasked with something more important, then Ti-Ne will spend lots of time cogitating until the correct answer is achieved.
    YES! Ne aborbs everything for Fi so that, at Fi's command, Fi will pick at that information so as to be fair and not have bias! For INFJs it works that Fe goes out to find all the info and relay it back to Ni so that the Ni can work to focus and come to a fair conclusion. Both Types make conclusions, it's the how is it done, why is it done and for whom is it done and from where is it taken from or to. An INFP in a rut will forget Ne and just be fixated on Fi. An INFJ in a rut will forget Fe and just focus on Ni. Fi can be an INFPs slave-driver under stress! And Ni can be an INFJs slave drivers under stress! That's where the biases are formed and from previous experiences w/ people + situations. If given time to process it, both types can find a way of overcoming their original analysis which may have been right beforehand because they worked hard in figuring it out or may have been right with their assumptions (again, figured it out) in relation to the person/s beforehand. That's when we learn to accept the changes of situations/places + people. People can change, for sure, of all Types, and sometimes they don't or never will but it's maintaing an open mind and not being a slave to your Dominant Processes for INFPs' Fi + Ne and INFJs' Ni + Fe which will help you out in the long run and short run (yea, sometimes it's gotta be a short analysis, sorry INFPs/INFJs!, it happens! )

    DD I am very impressed! Especially with your recognition of healthy vs unhealthy members of any type, or mature vs immature members of any type. I have been irritated in the past by negative stereotypes that people are using - and they are based on having met one or two clearly unhealthy examples of what they have guessed is a particular type. I guess that's Ne talking - asking why people aren't more open to the possibility that they are wrong in their assumptions?
    Yea, the Healthy vs Unhealthy is very important to me AS WELL as everything inbetween. That's how I approach people when I learn of them, how were they? Why are they acting this way now? What changed? Where're they going? What do they want to do or get back to? I know this is more than personal for me when it comes to MBTI types because in my life I've been stereotyped based off incorrect assumptions of my ethnicity since very young! "Is your mommy White and your daddy Black?" (mostly said that way). Now it's more "Are you Blasian?" or anything inbetween. (I'm like a lightskinned-yellowishbrownish thing, I don't know! lol I'd freak out as a kid and run to my parents asking if I was adopted. I recall these incidents well, if not all the faces as 99% are strangers who just blurt it to me w/o warning lol (used to get SO MIFFED as an older kid, now it's AMUSING to toy with the "possibiltites" before I narrow it and say "I'm ____ from _____ and only ____". (Some people fight me on it---insinuate my mom cheated or something). Nvm the stereotype that I'm more "intelligent" than "____" peoples or "You're Blasian, right? Got that Asian Smarts in you!" BS or "Is your hair weave? No? Are you sure? It's too long to be real for your kind of people!" I try to then direct the convo on how to "not be stereotypical" or ask "Where are you from? Really? Isn't that where ___ + ___ is? It is? And ___?" to deflect the rudeness and 'gather my peace from my hurt(if hurt)' so as not to appear rude and make a better impression...That can sometimes work against an INFJ b/c they can be so fix(at)ing when trying to "help people". INFPs might not, wisely or not, bother to care. My ISTP bestfriend really showed me that SOMETIMES you just gotta NOT explain OR CARE and just "leave them ALONE with their ignorance" She sometimes just toys with people's ignorance, sometimes explaining better if she cares to or likes them, or just mindf*cks them for fun and then pisses them off for insulting her (she's evolved a bit now, guess who made her? )

    She taught me by telling and example to: Be brief and curt if necessary. Leave if it's not working for them. Don't be afraid to be The Bitch/Bastard. Don't let it bother you for not being listened to, don't let it frustrate you if your misunderstood. So, I suppose, on the flip side, it might be for INFPs as this: Explain more or express more if necessary. Stay to get it working for them. Don't be afraid to be The Bitch/Bastard. Don't let it bother you for not being listened to, don't let it frustrate you if your misunderstood.

    To BOTH INFPs and INFJs, DON'T FEEL THE GUILT for failing someone or yourselves or being thought to have failed yourself or others. Accept your error or the error of others' misperceptions. Realise it wasn't your fault if it wasn't your fault and if it was your fault, it's A(ware to be).O.K.

    I'm enjoying reading about INFJs as well - I sometimes go into directive mode with a friend who's having problems because Ne wants more information, but I do it very gently, and use it with huge amounts of patience - I let (what I perceive as) their Fi have its say first. I will also ask other sources instead of the person involved, simply to get a different perspective.
    I enjoy reading about INFJs too! I meant INFPs! I've learned to be less directive (not that I'm a tyrant, peoples, I'm not, really ). My ISTP b/friend can have BLOW UPS about people and I know she needs space and not to so much as 'touch her'. She'll 'touch me' when she wants physical attention or advice. But she's better at hearing me out if it's in relation to other's b/c she's learned to trust me. The very few times throughout our entire lives that we've 'come to blows', both or one of us to the other, has taught me not to desperately try to "Fe" her into "talking it out with me" and she's learned to "let me in a bit quicker". We do argue a bit on our differing POVs but it's fun always winning! () K. Almost.

    And it's really good to get to other outside sources in order to gain perspective. Doesn't mean we have to trust it entirely, but we can nitpick and learn to discern the difference b/w sincere advice being shown nicely or told nicely.

    Edit:Minor edit on being more 'clear'.

  4. #64
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Adverb: Literally
    1. (intensifier before a figurative expression) without exaggeration

    If I recall correctly, a simile is considered figurative language.
    And that's the sad thing. Literally used to be such a good word, meaning non-figuratively. And when people used it in front of a figurative sentence, it would remind people to not read the usual figurative meaning into it.

    For example:

    Jane: Where's the file?
    John: It's on the computer.
    Jane: On the desktop?
    John: No literally on the computer.
    Jane sees said file in a folder, lying on the actual hard drive. They lived happily ever after.

    Now it's a whore of a word used to haphazardly mend any sentence together. It might as well be the word "fuck". In fact in most sentences nowadays to replace the word "literally," with the word "fucking," wouldn't change a thing except that the latter's crudity and the former's extra syllable mean that "literally" seems to be ranked higher in conjunction with the brow.

    So to say: It's literally like a bible to me.

    Is to say: A simile to describe it would be a bible, but please don't take this sentence metaphorically, even though earlier I said it was only a simile, still please don't take the simile metaphorically, but then for me to say it is "like a bible" is subjective anyway and to presume a non-literal reading of my subjectivity is a strange prediction to make, but I stand by it.

    In fact the earliest meaning of "literally" meant literally to the letter.

    (If anyone has trouble with the defining of a word using the same word to describe it, look up the meaning to the word "the", which means the definite article.)

    When people were copying out manuscripts word for word, they would say they were copying it literally. So the word has gone from an exact meaning of exactly to a vague meaning of vaguely. It's similar to the word "anon". In Chaucer's time "anon" meant immediately, by Shakespeare's time it meant soon.

    This is because over time people stretched its meaning due to laziness.

    14th century wife: When are you taking out the garbage?
    14th century husband: Anon. (immediately)
    14th century wife: That's right you are.
    14th century husband waits another two hours before doing it.

    So that centuries later...

    16th century wife: When are you taking out the garbage?
    16th century husband: Anon. (soon)
    16th century wife: No you'll do it right now mister.
    16th century husband: (mutters) Fucken old bitch...

    Conclusion: The human race is incredibly vague and lazy, especially with their language.

    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Digital Demi-Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post

    This is because over time people stretched its meaning due to laziness.

    14th century wife: When are you taking out the garbage?
    14th century husband: Anon. (immediately)
    14th century wife: That's right you are.
    14th century husband waits another two hours before doing it.

    So that centuries later...

    16th century wife: When are you taking out the garbage?
    16th century husband: Anon. (soon)
    16th century wife: No you'll do it right now mister.
    16th century husband: (mutters) Fucken old bitch...

    Conclusion: The human race is incredibly vague and lazy, especially with their language.
    Look into teaching jobs.

    You'd be a kickass teacher.

  6. #66

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    A smart wife saves her breath and sits the trash right out by the door so the husband has to trip over it when he comes home.

    DD, I wish you might stop by the Jane Austen thread and give us your theories on Pride and Prejudice types.

  7. #67
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    Great post, Mort.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    This is because over time people stretched its meaning due to laziness.
    I'd like to correct this a bit, please~ It wasn't just due to laziness, people have taken the etymological root/s of a word in order to transform it to suit their need or biases.

    The word "gay" orginally meant carefree/happy, among other happier meanings.
    The word "gay" during modern times became distorted once "Straight" people needed a word that "aptly described the Gays" in a derogatory fashion so as to make fun of "Gay peoples'" percevied easygoing lifestyles.
    The word "straight" originally meant "not bending" implied "on the straight and narrow(the right path)" implied "honesty" and all happier meanings. So in order to make a dichotomy between the now distorted Gays, Straight became used to signify that heterosexuals were the better choice. I couldn't be certain, but I'd guess, that it's the case with most stereotypes used.

    Once somewhat accpeted, Gay became distorted again. "That's so gay! OMFG! Like what're you doing, stop being gay!" even if not homophobic or meant to be. It's funny when I point it out and people exclaim "But I like gay people!" or even..."I am gay, I don't hate myself!" ----Sigh.

    Correct me if I was err incorrect about all that. I have no expterise in history or whatnot, all above is based on my own intrepretations..If you say I'm wrong, though, I'm gonna feel right!

    I wonder that you didn't correct me on exclaiming: "I don't think of it as a bible. It's more of a Rosetta Stone for me." Did I escape your discerning eye? (or did...)

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    A smart wife saves her breath and sits the trash right out by the door so the husband has to trip over it when he comes home.

    DD, I wish you might stop by the Jane Austen thread and give us your theories on Pride and Prejudice types.
    Sure, I'll do it there. I thought it wouldn't be good if the Thread is dead. I'll still do it here though.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Sure, I'll do it there. I thought it wouldn't be good if the Thread is dead. I'll still do it here though.
    The thread is not dead, the Jane Austen festival is still going on PBS.

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