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  1. #111
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition
    Hmm, I don't think of it as complicated. At least,not anymore, anyway, once I started seirously looking into it.
    I guess I say it's 'complicated' because this thread is now 100+ posts long, detailing differences between INFJ and INFP (and also addressing other types and misconceptions), and to be honest if it's in some cases that difficult to determine ones' type, well...there you go. :-) It doesn't mean what you've mentioned about cognitive processes/growth/experiences/maturity is invalid or wrong, but really...this thread, and Vicki Jo's site, is rather overwhelming!! :-) Informational? Certainly! But most people are not going to have the time to seriously look into it, or might find inconsistencies between various models/indicators to be used in determining type.


    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Type is a model and only a model. It is only as useful as its predictive abilities whether it can explain behavior (under the assumption that unconscious thinking processes manifest themselves in our thoughts and actions). The underlying theories in typology is irrefutable... for we can never directly access the unconscious. So the basis of MBTI type cannot be proven. With that said, if all INFJs can and do in fact behave differently (on correlation between type and behavior at all) then MBTI is useless. Nobody has done much in depth testing though. Or perhaps they have and noticed it failed time and time again... but since corporates started using it and they hate to admit that they made some decisions based on something that's wrong (*whistles*)... Those studies have be swept aside as irrelevant.
    Nothing really for me to comment on this..but yes, I agree with what you wrote.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #112
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    But I doooo take that in with CP! Have you seen my posts! lolol CP is as much thinking processes as it is acting and reacting processes. What goes inside your head will come out sooner or later (I hope!) by either acting or reacting on your thoughts or due to the thoughts/acting/reacting of others. Learning about CP is multifunctional tool for oneself and for us all!
    So will you agree with me that definitively identifying your type is useless? The ideal person is one who is typeless? MBTI itself doesn't matter... only the process of self development and learning to deal with people do. So it's just one of many different methods. Dare we expand this further and say personality types might be artificially created?

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I guess I say it's 'complicated' because this thread is now 100+ posts long, detailing differences between INFJ and INFP (and also addressing other types and misconceptions), and to be honest if it's in some cases that difficult to determine ones' type, well...there you go. :-) It doesn't mean what you've mentioned about cognitive processes/growth/experiences/maturity is invalid or wrong, but really...this thread, and Vicki Jo's site, is rather overwhelming!! :-) Informational? Certainly! But most people are not going to have the time to seriously look into it, or might find inconsistencies between various models/indicators to be used in determining type.

    Not all posts are by me. I've made 6 specific posts on the differences b/w INFP and INFJ. And 7 posts trying to stop the stereotyping from the reponses of others or to help highlight them. A few of my posts are in responses to ppl liking or explaining themselves as their type. The majority belong to others. Recall that initial bickering when bad blood was shed on INFP? Grrr!

    If people didn't respond, then it'd be all nice and neat and just all of me with my 10 or so posts! But then I wouldn't get feedback, oh noes! Nooo, Fe needs it from others and from yours too!

    I wonder if I was more clear on explaining MBTI and CP as a model as nightning did, I'd get the same response from you!

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    So will you agree with me that definitively identifying your type is useless? The ideal person is one who is typeless? MBTI itself doesn't matter... only the process of self development and learning to deal with people do. So it's just one of many different methods. Dare we expand this further and say personality types might be artificially created?
    Nope. I like knowing how to understand myself in relation to others and to understand others in relation to me and to eachother and beyond! I don't even just look into MBTI but in other models (Western/Chinese/etc astrology, Enneagram + others). MBTI is the one I appreciate the best and find most useful in appealing to modern people. I appreciate the others as they were childhood first loves, still look into them and understand them, and see how they work well when used well (and not generalised by lumping everyone into one month Sign or year Sign etc, it's more deeper than that).

    The ideal person, IMHO, isn't typeless. They've evolved their type, they can use the full spectrum of CP w/o being hindered by them or the lower CPs as they might've initially been. They are emotionally healthy, can appreciate their faults when they err and overcome them much better than others who aren't as evolved as they are. They can appreciate the faults of others, and not excuse them or sympathise, but know when to critise them and when to empathise for them. They've embraced themselves and the others who express in the positive and negative aspects they can recognise or once recognised in themselves. They are balanced.

    Oii, I feel so romantic!

  5. #115
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition
    wonder if I was more clear on explaining MBTI and CP as a model as nightning did, I'd get the same response from you!
    Oh, I don't know, I was just using the entire thread as an example of how all of it can get overwhelming - like I said, I felt the same way about Vicki Jo's site.

    Anything else I add would just be repeating what I've already said in my other posts in this thread!! I think I just approach all of it slightly differently, that's all...although I hope you understand I'm not questioning the information you have presented, as it does follow theory.

    But I question what is done with the information and how it is integrated and used, and therefore I suppose I'm questioning the validity of some of the theories themselves - how they tie together, or don't tie together, as the case may be - which is not really what this thread is about. So on that end, I guess I'm being counterproductive, as that's not the purpose of this thread.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Oh, I don't know, I was just using the entire thread as an example of how all of it can get overwhelming - like I said, I felt the same way about Vicki Jo's site.
    Yup, can be. I'd say it's mostly due to misunderstandings (as when putting down the INFPs happened) and then too much loss of focus (which is what I didn't want but it happens and I'm okay with that lolol). Which sites of Vicky Jo's confused you? Was it only the INFJ or INFP? or the sole INFJ one? btw, I'm putting the links mostly for others who haven't read anything yet and are just glancing at the last page here lol

    Anything else I add would just be repeating what I've already said in my other posts in this thread!! I think I just approach all of it slightly differently, that's all...although I hope you understand I'm not questioning the information you have presented, as it does follow theory.
    You're being critical of it all and that's a good thing. Anyone who takes info blindly and doesn't disect it is going to be at the mercy of it later should they fear it contradicts them if it should happen. Knowledge isn't power alone, it's being aware of that knowledge and how it applies itself as a practical tool and as a self-observing one. We've spoken on it and I know you're not questioning my info but as you said the application of it. The application is given to others to do as they please as I have no control on how they mis/perceive nor do I wish to control others by telling them how to apply. I'd like to give people the option in figuring how they'd, themselves, like to choose that application process.

    Never fear, I rarely get insulted personally on anything anymore!

    But I question what is done with the information and how it is integrated and used, and therefore I suppose I'm questioning the validity of some of the theories themselves - how they tie together, or don't tie together, as the case may be - which is not really what this thread is about. So on that end, I guess I'm being counterproductive -- but the only reason I started posting in this thread was because I didn't think it was as black and white. Tis all!
    Nah, not counterproductive to me, but explaining your views which is good. It may seem so to others who don't know where you're coming from. We've discussed personally when trying to figure each other's motives, recall? These new folks and even old folks may not know where you're coming from, so perhaps, to them it may seem counterproductive or it may not. I dunno, I'm gonna get scared now!

    I just hope I showed to you or to others how MBTI/Type/CP/life! is not black and white but very coloured and then transcendingly colourful so as to not even display colour on the outside except on the inside which only they know for themselves!

  7. #117

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    Delirious, would LOVE your insight on this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post142595

  8. #118
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Perhaps it'll make it easier for people to understand if you go back to your first post and put down a summary of everything you've discussed. With a link to the relevant post so they can read more if they wanted to.

  9. #119
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Yup, can be. I'd say it's mostly due to misunderstandings (as when putting down the INFPs happened) and then too much loss of focus (which is what I didn't want but it happens and I'm okay with that lolol). Which sites of Vicky Jo's confused you? Was it only the INFJ or INFP? or the sole INFJ one? btw, I'm putting the links mostly for others who haven't read anything yet and are just glancing at the last page here lol
    She didn't say confused, she said overwhelmed.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #120
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Yup, can be. I'd say it's mostly due to misunderstandings (as when putting down the INFPs happened) and then too much loss of focus (which is what I didn't want but it happens and I'm okay with that lolol). Which sites of Vicky Jo's confused you? Was it only the INFJ or INFP? or the sole INFJ one? btw, I'm putting the links mostly for others who haven't read anything yet and are just glancing at the last page here lol
    I wasn't confused by them - I understood everything she was saying and what she was illustrating. But yes, I do think they are overwhelming. It would take a couple hours to go through the site thoroughly.

    It sounds like most people who have piped into this thread have found her site immensely helpful and useful, so I think I'm very much in the minority.

    But in my case it did not assist me much, and I had some issues with some of the anecdotes/ways of differentiating the two. Yes, I learned a lot about the various theories, misunderstandings, misconceptions, stereotypes, etc, but that was about it. I came away from it questioning all of it even further, but I have already covered my issues/concerns in my other posts. So I'm done! I really don't want to take away any more from the rest of this thread, what it's supposed to be about, and what other people might think about all of it.


    EDIT: and to further clarify my word usage....

    'Confusing' for me in this context is more that I see inconsistencies or have issues or disagree with the content, which causes me to question. Theories that conflict, things that I see that don't line up with each other, real-life examples that go counter to theory, that sort of thing. Also, specifically, I was referencing past confusion over my own type, and what Type exactly means, for anyone.

    'Overwhelming' to me is different because it's just information overload, which means one would need time to fully digest it, and one would need to have the desire to dig into it. Overwhelming is tied to sheer volume of material to sift through. So 'overwhelming' involves a time factor for me, not a lack of comprehension.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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