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  1. #21
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    Thank you all for your insightful responses. I really appreciate all of your support and suggestions. I have a serious problem with expressing my moral judgements without coming off as too harsh or judgemental when I am explaining my beliefs and what I find to be wrong with the world to those closest to me. Maybe this should be a topic for another post? I wish I could understand the root of it so it would be easier to change. It seems I am most aggressive when I'm trying to explain the global consequences and the deepest third world disparities. Maybe I am mad more people don't see the connections of their actions? Maybe some of the aggression is that I am almost part of it and want people to wake up too so it will be easier for me to change? I've also been known to get pretty aggressive with politics too, ugh, I am my own worst nightmare sometimes! Well, at least acknowlegement is the first step to change, haha.

    As far as the move goes, I am moving to Paris. I know this is not a third world country but I hope to start fresh there with my actions, friends, openness about my beliefs, etc. Also, France is a good place to learn French and improve my resume to work in Africa with an NGO. Since no one will know me there I can be whoever I want, ya know, with out feeling societal pressures (or at least less). I'm scared because the city is known to prioritize fashion and I really struggle with trying concentrate on other more important worldly issues. This is my biggest problem when succumbing to my own moral beliefs vs actions. It is just something I was always taught I needed to do in order to be liked and I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that if that is what someone requires to be my friend, it's not worth having their friendship. I want friends that prioritize other things. I will be so poor living there though that I doubt I'll be able to keep up with looking cute there! I moved home for 6 months and worked a 9-5er and as a bartender to be able to afford to scrape by for a semester of an intensive French course.

    Lastly, I found the monkeysphere particularly interesting when it comes to the root of the problem. How can we overcome this? As humans evolved from monkeys our brains have increased compacity from truly caring about 50 people to 150 people. At this growht rate, it would take trillions of years and the destruction of our planet before we could every truly feel for an entire population.. obviously. I wish there is something we could do to speed up this process but unfortunatley this pretty much proves we are screwed in ever really caring about everyone. I guess it would be very depressing if we did though.. or would it because that would make us change? Ok rambling now. Thanks everyone for responding
    What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    You can find a way to live outside the money obsession. The Peace Corps or a mission field would be an excellent way to help people and both areas require living a simple non-capitalist lifestyle.

  3. #23
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    i did worked with a tsunami relief ngo for a year.
    i think i'm more useful offsite (fundraising) as
    opposed 'onsite' (carry stuff and building).

    i just thought it'd be a shame to disregard the
    skills i already have when working towards a
    cause, no need to get my hands dirty because
    i'll just get in the way "this is heavy" when i can
    be much, much more effective networking.
    bring better conditions to onsite volunteers
    and the people we're helping.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  4. #24
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    Yes, I'm trying to get into mission work but it's very competitive, hence me going to learn another language.

    I have tried the fundraising thing, been doing it the last 3 years and actually moved up fast with an incredible ngo but it still doesn't feel right to me.. Many of the people giving are doing it for acknowlegement, especially companies. Sometimes I feel like I'm working to give them a pat on the back for one good thing when they are probably the reason for the problem they are giving to.. again, not always the case but I guess I just need something more pure in order to be truly at peace...
    What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.

  5. #25
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceRobin View Post
    I have a soul aching internal struggle going on between what I deeply believe to be the righteous way to live and the huge contrast in how most of society lives, including others around me that I love, and unfortunately myself. I feel like capitalist forces (or some kind of forces) have driven the overwhelming majority of the western world to prioritize money and things to a point of materialistic gluttony while others across the world are starving to death or dying from easily curable or preventable diseases. How can this be?

    Of course, no one can be perfect but what I see is far from perfect and more to the side of evil. Whether it is ignorance or self willed- I believe it to be both- I just can't see myself continuing to be a part of this terrible society that supports the value system of mass consumption for no other reason than being told that ridiculous luxuries are necessities.

    Many may argue that not all society is like this and I agree, thank god! However, I believe there to be little exception to the rule. I think pop culture such as magazines, tv shows and music imitate real society, otherwise it wouldn't be popular. Look how magazines tell woman to buy all these clothes, shoes and jewelry while others are freezing to death or have holes in their clothes in other parts of the world. Reality TV Shows make these values evident by illustrating how objects which are so trivial in nature and not truly necessary influence our lives. I don't even want to begin on the mainstream artists. I realize there is quality reading, screenings and music out there but if you look at the ratings and sales, that is not what most of society is buying or watching.

    Sorry, I don't know how this got so long but basically my point is that I am very unhappy being a part of this system. I'm moving to a new part of the world in a few weeks to re-invent myself and hopefully do a 180 so that my actions will match my thoughts. I will breakfree and also be building my language skills in order have better prospects for a career in international development.
    I have thought these things many times. What we are a part of seems crazy, distorted and a bit insane. It makes you want to run away from the system. I have dreams of getting rid of (mostly) all the material possessions and moving to a cabin on a lake in the north woods of Wisconsin. I'm not sure what good that would do though for the starving children. The thing is, what do you do?

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  6. #26
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have thought these things many times. What we are a part of seems crazy, distorted and a bit insane. It makes you want to run away from the system. I have dreams of getting rid of (mostly) all the material possessions and moving to a cabin on a lake in the north woods of Wisconsin. I'm not sure what good that would do though for the starving children. The thing is, what do you do?
    i've done that, and i think what i realised is you can't really get away from yourself?
    just manage how you are, and channel those characteristics into ways that makes
    you more happy?

    i went away to the hills, but within three months i didn't even realise i had started
    a little business there, bartering with locals and such. but it never felt stressful,
    however the more i did it, i just missed the fucking kill, the big closes i had before.

    now i'm back in the city. but it was nice to get it out of my system.
    kinda ruined the image for me though... the whole going away to somewhere quiet...
    i'll need something more specific now... dunno what though.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  7. #27
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceRobin View Post
    I have a soul aching internal struggle going on between what I deeply believe to be the righteous way to live and the huge contrast in how most of society lives, including others around me that I love, and unfortunately myself. I feel like capitalist forces (or some kind of forces) have driven the overwhelming majority of the western world to prioritize money and things to a point of materialistic gluttony while others across the world are starving to death or dying from easily curable or preventable diseases. How can this be?

    etc....
    I found your thread in the philosophy section, but I figured that I'd respond here instead.

    My view is that the issue is not really with a system like capitalism, but with human nature in general. Look at any culture throughout history and you will find many examples of people in power oppressing the common people. It is the exceptional leaders that actually wish to serve rather than control. Furthermore there is a danger that if we focus on the insane actions of those in power, then it will drive us insane.

    The solution therefore is not to focus on the system but to focus on people. Most people are looking for an experience of being alive. And people who normally don't get involved in a cause may follow someone who is following their passions. So that means you have to start with yourself. What are your passions? What makes you come alive? First you must find what that is and then go do that. Then gradually uncaring people will start to care. They may never fully understand the issues like you do, but they may trust you and do the right thing anyway.

    So the most important thing is to do some self discovery. Find out what makes you tick, so that you can strive to be the person that you've always wanted to be. Tools like MBTI can help that, but I like "Now Discover Your Strengths" even more. And you are preparing to travel, which I think is good. Go have different experiences as that will help you find more about yourself as well. And then once you know what makes you come alive start doing that and keep at it as you will improve with practice.

    “Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.”
    -Howard Thurman
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  8. #28
    Member HiddenAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceRobin View Post
    Yes, I'm trying to get into mission work but it's very competitive, hence me going to learn another language.

    I have tried the fundraising thing, been doing it the last 3 years and actually moved up fast with an incredible ngo but it still doesn't feel right to me.. Many of the people giving are doing it for acknowlegement, especially companies. Sometimes I feel like I'm working to give them a pat on the back for one good thing when they are probably the reason for the problem they are giving to.. again, not always the case but I guess I just need something more pure in order to be truly at peace...
    In response to your desire to be better and change and be a force of good to the world, in my own experience I have found that Jesus Christ can change our natures more quickly and in a more profound way than we can on our own. I constantly want to overcome my weaknesses and often I'll try so hard to do it on my own without success and then when I reach out to Him for help I am able to do it. And after that then I have the strength to lift others to a higher ground.

  9. #29
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    Thanks for putting it into perspective that human nature has always been like this and it's not necessarily capitalism, although it does exacerbate the situation.. Somehow this makes me feel better.. like i'm not choosing to be a part of this heirarchy because it really exists everywhere. I am going to check out that book. I've heard good things about it already, actually, and just never got around to ordering it.. Thanks! As far as the Christianity thing is concerned, I appreciate your empathy to my situation and trying to help but this is not something I believe in or think will help. Thanks!
    What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.

  10. #30
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceRobin View Post
    I have a soul aching internal struggle going on between what I deeply believe to be the righteous way to live and the huge contrast in how most of society lives, including others around me that I love, and unfortunately myself. I feel like capitalist forces (or some kind of forces) have driven the overwhelming majority of the western world to prioritize money and things to a point of materialistic gluttony while others across the world are starving to death or dying from easily curable or preventable diseases. How can this be?

    Of course, no one can be perfect but what I see is far from perfect and more to the side of evil. Whether it is ignorance or self willed- I believe it to be both- I just can't see myself continuing to be a part of this terrible society that supports the value system of mass consumption for no other reason than being told that ridiculous luxuries are necessities.

    Many may argue that not all society is like this and I agree, thank god! However, I believe there to be little exception to the rule. I think pop culture such as magazines, tv shows and music imitate real society, otherwise it wouldn't be popular. Look how magazines tell woman to buy all these clothes, shoes and jewelry while others are freezing to death or have holes in their clothes in other parts of the world. Reality TV Shows make these values evident by illustrating how objects which are so trivial in nature and not truly necessary influence our lives. I don't even want to begin on the mainstream artists. I realize there is quality reading, screenings and music out there but if you look at the ratings and sales, that is not what most of society is buying or watching.

    Sorry, I don't know how this got so long but basically my point is that I am very unhappy being a part of this system. I'm moving to a new part of the world in a few weeks to re-invent myself and hopefully do a 180 so that my actions will match my thoughts. I will breakfree and also be building my language skills in order have better prospects for a career in international development.

    The problem- I'll have trouble sharing this new me with my friends and family. I tried while I was here but I feel they think I am insulting their way of life and values and possibly me thinking they're ignorant or selfish. Also, from the outside I appear as they do but on the inside I am someone else waiting to get out so I feel like a hypocrit. Mostly, I still want to fit in, but I won't be able to Sometime it makes me feel crazy I wish I couldn't see all the interconnectedness of the world.. too much N or maybe NF brings large feelings of duty but creates many sacrifices...
    *What scares me the most is that I will eventually revert back to routine and the ways of all who know me in order to be loved, to avoid confrontation or to save so many deep relationships I have built over time. This would also probably end up to me settling down like most other do and it would be with someone who doesn't share my radical thinking.. I'd be stuck with an empty soul..
    Oh gosh, this story strikes quite a chord with me. Especially, your desire to not want to be seen as different and afraid of sharing these views with your friends and family. I went through quite a phase where I was torn in wanting to express, not only my opinions, but rather a living in accordance with my views so as to not feel like a hypocrite... and yet not wanting to be seen as a freak by my family. My family is definitely the type that doesn't understand many of these types of points of view. I finally decided to start expressing this side of me more with them, and at first I was met with a lot of discomfort and felt very much like a black sheep. My sister would derogatorily call me a hippie. It was upsetting. But over time, we've smoothed much of this out and they've come to accept me and my views.

    Btw, I have the same fear. And I often feel as though I'm already slipping some. I need to save myself before it's too late.

    Anyways, though. Best of luck with your move and to keeping in step with the things you believe in. Stay radical, and don't fall back on the things you believe in.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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