[ENFJ] INTP Confused By Enigmatic ENFJ

[quidtimeam]

Thirding this. Fantastic explanation.

I got some imagery of wanting to cross from one side of a cliff, but needing to build a way across first. There's a rope to swing across with, and in flighty moments that rope is contemplated, but using it would leave one potentially falling to their death. Right now it's in the bridge building stage, where she'll go back and tend to the supplies whenever she realizes the rope idea is scary. I'd say when ENFJs get to a point where caring overrides vulnerability- they just find a tree to fall across said cliff so they can scamper across with some semblance of stability.

I personally find comfort in other Fs, even if I tend to find INTPs to be the closest bet beyond that. There may be difficulty for her regarding the F/T clash aspect of things.

Great imagery.

 

[quidtimeam]

So I'm seeing her Monday, and I am wondering what is the best way to approach this. She definitely knows about my feelings now, and I can tell that she wants me to me the one to make the first move, as she has expressed that view of male/female relations in casual conversations we have had, but her strong Fe and Se make it really difficult for me to control the situation. She is always emoting or fidgeting, and I add to the situation with my Ti and Ne insight, but getting into her personal space is a more difficult proposition. I know I just have to summon the guts to make a move, but I can't seem to do it with all this fidgeting, especially. How can you calm an ENFJ down enough to take control of the external situation? Is this extreme anxiousness indicative of anything? I'm hoping my Ne comes through with something creative in the moment, but it is tough.

 

[Neutralpov]

You are overthinking now. Be confident and honest.
The anxiousness can be many factors but now it is just a distraction for your categorization purposes tonight so be calming to her and just know what you offer and make sure your confidence in yourself and the decision is there when you make a genuine move. That's all ya need.

 

[Amargith]

Wanna quiet her down?Control the situation with your presence, with your body (this directly 'talks' to her tertiary Se). Just look at her and smile softly, preferably while standing just a bit closer than you normally would to her. Let her rant, let her fidget, let her be uncomfortable. Be calm, look at her and smile. If she doesn't calm, make a crack joke (using Ne) to increase trust and give her a moment of peace from the intensity you're causing. Don't back away physically at this point (you're trying to get her to get used to you being in her personal bubble). At this point your body is really just asking her to focus on you and wonder why you're looking at her that way. It might make her nervous, but she'll get used to it and feel special. It creates intensity, the kind you have like right for a kiss. If she's still very unsure, joke about with her a bit to distract her and put your hand casually on her somewhere to just a swiftly remove it again, and repeat, leaving it longer on her and so on till she's ok with it. Watch her get used to it. If she is in fact looking back at you and quieting down, look at your hand, put it on her quietly and look back up in her eyes. If she's staying still, get closer, and kiss her

 

[SpankyMcFly]

Wanna quiet her down?Control the situation with your presence, with your body (this directly 'talks' to her tertiary Se). Just look at her and smile softly, preferably while standing just a bit closer than you normally would to her. Let her rant, let her fidget, let her be uncomfortable. Be calm, look at her and smile. If she doesn't calm, make a crack joke (using Ne) to increase trust and give her a moment of peace from the intensity you're causing. Don't back away physically at this point (you're trying to get her to get used to you being in her personal bubble). At this point your body is really just asking her to focus on you and wonder why you're looking at her that way. It might make her nervous, but she'll get used to it and feel special. It creates intensity, the kind you have like right for a kiss. If she's still very unsure, joke about with her a bit to distract her and put your hand casually on her somewhere to just a swiftly remove it again, and repeat, leaving it longer on her and so on till she's ok with it. Watch her get used to it. If she is in fact looking back at you and quieting down, look at your hand, put it on her quietly and look back up in her eyes. If she's staying still, get closer, and kiss her

*smokes a cigarette*

 

[quidtimeam]

I appreciate the advice, but I fear there is something much more fundamental than typology going on here. We had a great time Monday, but when I made my romantic interest clear, she froze up and told me that she simply doesn't have romantic relationships with men. She has told me about her coldness before, and she has lacked affection in the past, and I thought it was just past bitterness, but this was a very clear and harrowing statement of her emotional indifference. She says that she can only sleep with men for whom she doesn't feel anything emotionally. When I asked why, she just said that that is how she is, and has been since middle school.

After talking with some friends and doing some research, it is becoming very clear to me that this is a case of childhood sexual trauma. She is estranged from her father, who it seems was divorced from her mother right around the time she would have been reaching sexual maturity. The fidgeting in intimate situations, the trust issues, the fear of eye contact, and the aversion to even friendly affection would all seem to point in that direction. Abused people tend to associate affections with the affections their abusers used to lure them into sexual contact, so this makes sense.

She hasn't said anything openly about it, but gets especially sensitive when I suggest that her emotional withdrawal may be the result of some prior circumstances rather than something inherent in her nature.

To be completely honest, I'm crushed by whole situation. The ironic thing is that we had the best time we have ever have had on Monday, and I can tell that she is sharing her personality with me in a way that she does with almost nobody, but for that very reason she must grow cold to my affections. I doubt she would be open to therapy at this time, and gets very sensitive about the subject. She enchants me, and I want to see the sparks of happiness she has emitted for me grow into something more fulfilling. Yet every step I take in even bringing it up risks her cutting it all off out of fear and sinking even further into the hellishly detached way of living she has carved out for herself. I feel totally helpless. As an INTP male, I rarely meet women I would even be remotely compatible with, and to have this rare desire and affection made so dirty and complicated really hurts me. I rarely care, and here I care so deeply, yet this beautiful, wonderful girl is too broken to let me care.

PS: In case you think I may be jumping the gun, there is more evidence for the abuse beyond what I have here. I don't want this post to become too identifiable, so PM me if you are curious.

Also, if you aren't familiar with signs of past abuse, this is a good link:
http://www.sasian.org/pdf/adsurcxa.pdf

 

[Glycerine]

Just chill out a little bit. Engage her mind with jokes mixed with serious conversation. If you can make her laugh, it will relax her.... that's how people tend to loosen up my guarded personality. I am an ENFJ, btw. Don't do full on serious. If you can do serious w/ a few jokes mixed in, it will get you far. The joking tones down the intensity and then you can get gradually into her personal space more and more. Serious for awhile, joke for awhile, serious for a little, joke for a little awhile. The touching I think should be when you're joking around w/ her. That way she feels happy and relaxed from the joking and then when you touch her, she won't be as guarded.

 

[Glycerine]

I added a lot to my last post.