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  1. #11
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quidtimeam View Post
    She finally got back to me, and said that she doesn't appreciate what she interprets as my attempts to change her into somebody less cynical and more open in her relations with people. She feels that I don't respect her if I think that I can "change" her just by my mere companionship.

    I replied by saying that I'm not trying to change her, but grow with her in a mutually beneficial way, and that I'm only interested in this because I already like her perfectly well the way she is. I confessed my affection for her, and explained that any intellectual distance I have taken in analyzing or describing her psychology was motivated by this deeper bond.

    She thought this was very well said, and apologized for thinking I was trying to do this. It has made me realize that I should just be emotionally direct with her instead of abstracting things. Given my usual NT company I'm just not used to be people being so emotionally sensitive. I'm glad there has been some communication here. But I definitely will be more conscious of such boundaries in the future.
    Oh and it looks like you hit the nail on the head by her reaction! ha she must have squirmed and felt see-through by your accuracy. game over ftw , ironic much?

  2. #12
    Junior Member quidtimeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greta View Post
    it's like bizarro world, the roles you two have taken on. (i.e.: i usually hear intps bitching about enfj trying to change them to be less closed off from people)
    I think age and social circumstance may be the reason for this. I'm 2 years older, and more socially settled than her. From the way she makes it sound, she hasn't had any close companionship outside of her family since high school, and she is a sophomore in college, while I am pretty socially self-confident for an INTP and have a pretty stable group of close friends. I'm the one that has the deeper knowledge of literature, philosophy, and other topics we share an interest in, so I've taken the more active role.

  3. #13
    Junior Member quidtimeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    Oh and it looks like you hit the nail on the head by her reaction! ha she must have squirmed and felt see-through by your accuracy. game over ftw , ironic much?
    Could you elaborate on this? She has mentioned a fear of feeling "see-through" before, as a reason for her social isolation. She says that she doesn't like people to have access to her thoughts, nor be able to look at her via social media, which she does not use. What is the nature of this fear?

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Im no ENFJ but I'd say: vulnerability. ENFJs are masters at making everyone else feel at ease and comfortable and rarely does anyone really return that favour. They usually control the level of intimacy anyone gets access to and it sounds like yours has not let *anyone* as close as you've gotten in a looooong ass time. It makes her uneasy and feel out of control. Which results in mixed feelings. Atm, I'd say she's trying to figure out the paradoxal feelings goin on inside of her. I have no doubt she likes your presence but also very much fears the effect you're having on her. It's something she's not had to deal with for a long time and those emotions can really get intense. If she decides that to protect herself from harm (aka you, rightfully so or not), she might bolt. At the same time, she probably yearns for this kind of connection and wants to move forwards. It's this paradox that creates the lack of control and the reserve you're feeling.

    I'd say you follow the earlier suggestions and stay absolutely still. Sometimes the best thing to do, is to do nothing at all, to wait for the other party to settle down. Let her fidget. Tolerate it. Be patient, but present. Stay in the same space emotionally for now, and be as comforting and consistent as you can be while staying active in her life and provide her with as much info as yu can about who you are and what you consider important. It'll help her trust you and evaluate if you are in fact right for her.

    Good luck


    Edit: I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised and amazed at the diligence you've displayed in your courting. Other INTPs should take notes, as you've done a bang-up job so far
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  5. #15
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Im no ENFJ but I'd say: vulnerability. ENFJs are masters at making everyone else feel at ease and comfortable and rarely does anyone really return that favour. They usually control the level of intimacy anyone gets access to and it sounds like yours has not let *anyone* as close as you've gotten in a looooong ass time. It makes her uneasy and feel out of control. Which results in mixed feelings. Atm, I'd say she's trying to figure out the paradoxal feelings goin on inside of her. I have no doubt she likes your presence but also very much fears the effect you're having on her. It's something she's not had to deal with for a long time and those emotions can really get intense. If she decides that to protect herself from harm (aka you, rightfully so or not), she might bolt. At the same time, she probably yearns for this kind of connection and wants to move forwards. It's this paradox that creates the lack of control and the reserve you're feeling.

    I'd say you follow the earlier suggestions and stay absolutely still. Sometimes the best thing to do, is to do nothing at all, to wait for the other party to settle down. Let her fidget. Tolerate it. Be patient, but present. Stay in the same space emotionally for now, and be as comforting and consistent as you can be while staying active in her life and provide her with as much info as yu can about who you are and what you consider important. It'll help her trust you and evaluate if you are in fact right for her.

    Good luck


    Edit: I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised and amazed at the diligence you've displayed in your courting. Other INTPs should take notes, as you've done a bang-up job so far
    Agreed. I'm quite surprised an INTP is being this persistent and assertive. It's a good thing.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #16
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    Right? Usually you have to drag them out of a cave and beat them with a stick to get them to start dating you.

  7. #17
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    Right? Usually you have to drag them out of a cave and beat them with a stick to get them to start dating you.
    So true. Many sticks have died this way.
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  8. #18
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    They died yes, but they are not forgotten.

  9. #19
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Im no ENFJ but I'd say: vulnerability. ENFJs are masters at making everyone else feel at ease and comfortable and rarely does anyone really return that favour. They usually control the level of intimacy anyone gets access to and it sounds like yours has not let *anyone* as close as you've gotten in a looooong ass time. It makes her uneasy and feel out of control. Which results in mixed feelings. Atm, I'd say she's trying to figure out the paradoxal feelings goin on inside of her. I have no doubt she likes your presence but also very much fears the effect you're having on her. It's something she's not had to deal with for a long time and those emotions can really get intense. If she decides that to protect herself from harm (aka you, rightfully so or not), she might bolt. At the same time, she probably yearns for this kind of connection and wants to move forwards. It's this paradox that creates the lack of control and the reserve you're feeling.
    Thirding this. Fantastic explanation.

    I got some imagery of wanting to cross from one side of a cliff, but needing to build a way across first. There's a rope to swing across with, and in flighty moments that rope is contemplated, but using it would leave one potentially falling to their death. Right now it's in the bridge building stage, where she'll go back and tend to the supplies whenever she realizes the rope idea is scary. I'd say when ENFJs get to a point where caring overrides vulnerability- they just find a tree to fall across said cliff so they can scamper across with some semblance of stability.

    I personally find comfort in other Fs, even if I tend to find INTPs to be the closest bet beyond that. There may be difficulty for her regarding the F/T clash aspect of things.
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  10. #20
    Junior Member quidtimeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post

    I'd say you follow the earlier suggestions and stay absolutely still. Sometimes the best thing to do, is to do nothing at all, to wait for the other party to settle down. Let her fidget. Tolerate it. Be patient, but present. Stay in the same space emotionally for now, and be as comforting and consistent as you can be while staying active in her life and provide her with as much info as yu can about who you are and what you consider important. It'll help her trust you and evaluate if you are in fact right for her.

    Good luck


    Edit: I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised and amazed at the diligence you've displayed in your courting. Other INTPs should take notes, as you've done a bang-up job so far
    Thanks for the advice. It's the course I am going to follow. If I imagine how vulnerable I would feel if my Fe was so dominant, and therefore so exposed, I can imagine why she is acting this way.

    And thanks for the compliment. I don't open up easily, but when I feel there is a chance of a good relationship with someone, I'm quite forward, especially since such prospects rarely present themselves in INTP world.
    Likes visceralghost liked this post

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