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  1. #41
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Sometimes I wonder what will happen if we ask people who know us well and have them answer the questions for us based on their impression of who we are. If you take an average from say 5-6 people... would that be a better reflection of who we are?
    I'm willing to bet those results would be almost as scattered, if not more so, because (it seems to me) INFJs do tend to pick up on how best to communicate/interact with others according to the other individual's style of communication and interaction. I'm very different outwardly in a group of, say, ENTJs than I am in a group of ESFPs- and different than that in a group of INFPs- though my internal values stay the same. I pick up on how others interact with the world and use that to communicate with them.

    I'm not sure I understand how having an accurate idea of what others think of us would impact the results of a cognitive functions test anyway, since it's about answering questions about our world view and the means by which we are inclined to process information. Whether or not our insight is accurate or completely projected delusion seems to be beside the point. I mean, I get that having faulty insight about ourselves could lead to faulty answers about ourselves- but wouldn't that result in simply having a faulty idea of how accurate our personal world view is, rather than making us think our world view itself is different? [In other words: if a plumber takes a 'what profession are you in?' test, s/he will likely get 'plumber' results- because of familiarity with the tasks and lingo related to the actual job- regardless of how inept s/he is within that profession.] I'm not 100% on this^, it's just what's occurring to me as I read this last page.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Yeah, a more specific context for practically any of those questions could throw my answer to one extreme to the other. It's like answering the question "Do you like the color blue?" It's completely relative: I love it for some things, strongly dislike it for others. So I end up answering 'somewhat me' for most of them. As a result, overall, I usually don't feel like I've answered anything about myself for these tests- as if I've only answered by not answering, if that makes sense. And as I stated earlier, maybe that's the point, but I just don't see how that can yield a very accurate assessment.
    Definitely agree with this. It would be neat to find an assessment that used hypothetical scenarios to measure the ways in which we absorb information and make decisions. Kind of like the "issue spotting" exam questions they use in law school.

  3. #43
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    I just retook the test but didn't save my percentages. The function order is in my sig. Suffice it to say that Fi starts out at about 45 and the numbers decrease from there.

    I know my results don't point to INFJ in the Cognitive Functions tests. Usually, it's INFP, but there's no way in hell I'm a P. Not possible. I tend to think that the Cognitive Functions order as typically mapped to MBTI type is a generalization, and as such it won't be the same for every individual.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  4. #44
    Junior Member MTINFJ's Avatar
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    "Mystical" leapt right off the page for me too, not sure why. The writing style definitely is targeting a higher level reading skill, perhaps with undergraduate test takers (the favorite pool of subjects for academic researchers) in mind? That seems to contribute to the airy abstract quality to them. The MB test seems to be written in a style for a broader cross section of society, I felt like I knew exactly what was being asked and could connect it to what I prefer without much difficulty. The yellow and black background makes me anxious. I have a wide monitor so 2/3 of the page is black when I download it. I prefer it when tests look bland. Imagine you're in school and it's pop quiz time and teacher hands out special black paper just for the test. Yikes!

  5. #45
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'm willing to bet those results would be almost as scattered, if not more so, because (it seems to me) INFJs do tend to pick up on how best to communicate/interact with others according to the other individual's style of communication and interaction. I'm very different outwardly in a group of, say, ENTJs than I am in a group of ESFPs- and different than that in a group of INFPs- though my internal values stay the same. I pick up on how others interact with the world and use that to communicate with them.
    Quite right... I never took that into account. INFJs in general are chameleons with Fe's need to smooth out interpersonal interactions.

    I'm not sure I understand how having an accurate idea of what others think of us would impact the results of a cognitive functions test anyway, since it's about answering questions about our world view and the means by which we are inclined to process information.
    Well my original thinking was if our internal sense of self is highly changeable, then can we instead work out this problem from the other side. I know when looking from the outside, you need to infer internal states based on verbalized thoughts and actions. There might be quite a bit of errors and biases based on the observer's function usage, but if cognitive functions are suppose to represent who we are, then they ought to be stable & consistent enough for patterns to appear if we obtain sufficient observer data. This will take a lot of effort, but it would be nice to try... My gut feeling is that this process ought to work.

    Whether or not our insight is accurate or completely projected delusion seems to be beside the point. I mean, I get that having faulty insight about ourselves could lead to faulty answers about ourselves- but wouldn't that result in simply having a faulty idea of how accurate our personal world view is, rather than making us think our world view itself is different?
    That's one thing I dislike about the MBTI approach in leaving the typing to the individual... What good is a system if we're typing based on a potentially faulty impression of who we are? To me, the point of learning about MBTI is to better understand myself as a person... how my perspective is different from others... and what I could do to better understand others and have them understand me easier. That is I don't think MBTI type and our cognitive function preferences should be used for labeling individuals. Instead they should be used as concepts for understanding what makes us who we are. Then based on that understanding, to better ourselves. So if the profile is faulty, it wouldn't work properly.

    [In other words: if a plumber takes a 'what profession are you in?' test, s/he will likely get 'plumber' results- because of familiarity with the tasks and lingo related to the actual job- regardless of how inept s/he is within that profession.] I'm not 100% on this^, it's just what's occurring to me as I read this last page.
    I personally think INFJs are more likely to do the oppose. As we become more familiar with cognitive functions, we start to interpret the questions differently because we know what function each one refers to. A case of over thinking each question.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Ne was much easier to relate to for me because it was still intuitive and it sounded less lofty. I am not a psychic poet-warrior who can lift mountains with his mind. :steam: I also thought some of the Fi questions were phrased in a vague, unobjectionable way.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think it is interesting to hear that many INFJs say that they don't feel like they have an accurate perception of themselves. I know for me that a lot of my own self-perceptions are rooted in what people mirror back to me. Over the years, I've just averaged all of the images together to come up with a basic overall impression.
    Don't get me wrong, I certainly pounce on any sort of cues/information that people provide (so I know to modify my behaviour/re-evaluate myself). But I find This point brought up by Z-Buck makes me question how reliable others are:

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    ...(it seems to me) INFJs do tend to pick up on how best to communicate/interact with others according to the other individual's style of communication and interaction. I'm very different outwardly in a group of, say, ENTJs than I am in a group of ESFPs- and different than that in a group of INFPs- though my internal values stay the same. I pick up on how others interact with the world and use that to communicate with them.
    I feel like everyone gets the wrong idea about who I am and give me inaccurate feedback. But I suspect that`s because I am still using my Fe in an immature, disingenuous way to placate people, and therefore don`t recognize myself in their perceptions of me.

    Another problem I have with trusting what people reflect back at you is that they often keep their opinions about you hidden. I hear a lot of people criticize someone's central personality flaw, but no one ever lets this person know about it. How am I supposed to know that people aren't doing that to me?

    I find that a lot of people don't want to know the truth and assume you must not either. I tried to have a discussion with an ENFP friend about her alcoholism effecting her grades/relationships, and I handled it with kid gloves. However, her normally easygoing manner fell away. She angrily told me I was judgmental, negative, and uptight. She wouldn't speak to me until I apologized. I didn't even tell her the full truth, just a part of it (covered in sugar) and she still couldn't handle it. Maybe it's because most of my friends are teenagers and young adults so some of them are still immature.

  7. #47
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Well my original thinking was if our internal sense of self is highly changeable, then can we instead work out this problem from the other side. I know when looking from the outside, you need to infer internal states based on verbalized thoughts and actions. There might be quite a bit of errors and biases based on the observer's function usage, but if cognitive functions are suppose to represent who we are, then they ought to be stable & consistent enough for patterns to appear if we obtain sufficient observer data. This will take a lot of effort, but it would be nice to try... My gut feeling is that this process ought to work.
    I have to admit, I'd love to see what it looked like if the people who have known me well for a long time all took the test for me. I'm sure there are things they see that I don't realize. I’d be surprised if the results were consistent, though. Different people see different parts of me.


    That's one thing I dislike about the MBTI approach in leaving the typing to the individual... What good is a system if we're typing based on a potentially faulty impression of who we are? To me, the point of learning about MBTI is to better understand myself as a person... how my perspective is different from others... and what I could do to better understand others and have them understand me easier. That is I don't think MBTI type and our cognitive function preferences should be used for labeling individuals. Instead they should be used as concepts for understanding what makes us who we are. Then based on that understanding, to better ourselves. So if the profile is faulty, it wouldn't work properly.
    I can see why your INTJ license got revoked.


    I personally think INFJs are more likely to do the oppose. As we become more familiar with cognitive functions, we start to interpret the questions differently because we know what function each one refers to. A case of over thinking each question.
    Yeah, I'd be lying if I said learning about the functions hasn't affected the way I answer the questions (as I said, the 'mystical' aspect alone would make my Ni score plummet). What I meant by the comparison though is that it seems like there are some traits that won’t change, and a delusional INFJ will still probably have the preferences of an INFJ. But then, I can see how a delusional INFJ might not correctly report having those preferences, so nevermind.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I am not a psychic poet-warrior who can lift mountains with his mind.
    INFJ license revoked!
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  8. #48
    Senior Member scortia's Avatar
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    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) **************** (16.1)
    limited use
    introverted Sensing (Si) ************************* (25.1)
    average use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *************************************** (39.6)
    excellent use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39.4)
    excellent use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************************* (33.4)
    good use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************* (31.5)
    good use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************** (17.1)
    limited use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.2)
    excellent use

    I got INFP. I was INFP back in high school so it's not that unusual.

  9. #49

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    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) *************** (15.9)
    unused
    introverted Sensing (Si) ****************************** (30.7)
    good use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************** (26.2)
    average use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************************* (45.3)
    excellent use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) *********************** (23.9)
    limited use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************* (25)
    average use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.1)
    average use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************************** (44.1)
    excellent use


    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INFJ

    Lead (Dominant) Process
    Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.

    Support (Auxilliary) Process
    Extraverted Feeling (Fe): Building trust through giving relationships. Empathically responding to others' needs and take on their needs and values as your own. Checking for respect and trust. Giving and receiving support to grow closer to people.


    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENFJ, or INFP

    If these results are different from what you know of yourself, you might consider why your developmental pattern does not align with your expectation. You might also consider exploring this result as a possible better fit.

    The Four Temperaments
    Corresponding best-fit temperaments based on your profile: Catalyst; secondly Theorist; then Stabilizer; and lastly, Improviser.
    To read more about the four temperaments click here.

  10. #50
    violaine
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    (I wonder how reliable/accurate this questionnaire is.)

    I think I'm in SP wannabe mode. I'm working to develop my Se and Si, I have a ways to go. I find myself unusually fascinated with SPs lately.


    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************** (22.7)
    limited use
    introverted Sensing (Si) *************** (15.6)
    unused
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) **************************************** (40.9)
    excellent use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************************ (48.1)
    excellent use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************** (26.9)
    average use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************** (34)
    good use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************************** (28.8)
    average use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************** (23.6)
    limited use

    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INFJ

    Lead (Dominant) Process
    Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.

    Support (Auxilliary) Process
    Extraverted Feeling (Fe): Building trust through giving relationships. Empathically responding to others' needs and take on their needs and values as your own. Checking for respect and trust. Giving and receiving support to grow closer to people.

    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENFJ, or INTJ

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