[ENFP] Noboby Can Piss Me Off Quite Like An ENFP

[Thalassa]

This is so unbelievably irrational that even an ENFP wouldn't do it.

I love it.

ESTP?

 

[Amethyst]

As for the B, not a big deal unless you needed the A for some other reason.

Yeah, I got a B+ this semester, and I know exactly why, and it doesn't matter. As long as you have above a 3.5, you should be fine, and have no need to worry.

 

[MafiaAngel180]

Yes in that special Sesame Street way.

I should punch you just for saying that. With my lips.

 

[slowriot]

This is so unbelievably irrational that even an ENFP wouldn't do it.

I love it.

ESTP?

TG reminds me of my sister. She cant take failure well. Plus she got that black and white thinking a lot of the time aswell. My sister thinks shes ENFP

 

[ThatGirl]

Omg, I didn't fail.

You guys seriously? First of all there is no way you can possibly tell if I am right or wrong in questioning my grade by reading emails alone.

You would have had to attend the class, seen the work of others submitted, the quality of my work, and the interactions between myself and the professor.

I am pretty sure she is a ditz, and know for a fact she is not remembering correctly. So while she may have been convincing in her arguments, they were based off of subjective misinformation.

No one sees that?

Anyway, how this pertains. She was flaky throughout the entire class. She was inconsistent and obviously needs ginko biloba. Also this "so professional" college course point is shit. I seriously was in a class with people who did their assignments while cussing during their presentations, or not doing them at all. A few I actually think had mental disabilities.

So it just doesn't add up. I read these peoples work.

But, whatever its over she is a bitch. I know I am right, and she is stubbornly chosing to stay wrong.

Now everyone bust out your N. The reason this pertains to the thread,

In the first email I clearly provided reasons as to why she should reconsider the quality of my work, and asked her to think about it.

She didn't understand my clear intent and automatically assigned shady motives to my position. She responded that I was looking for her to assign points to a paper never submitted or to add points on a multiple choice assignment, and didn't even stop to consider she was wrong regarding late work. She grades in two color ink, is NOT proof that she wasn't mistaken.

So instead of addressing the point of the email she made up this other point for me to respond to.

I corrected her perception of my intentions, and instead of using that to take a step back and reconsider the original letter, it had already become an issue of who was wrong and who was right.

She brought up false points, like how this is a psychological issue for me, or that I may have had trouble taking a hybrid class. How she wasn't wrong, and took the moral high ground, as though I was being unreasonable.

All this because I asked her to reconsider my work.

Yeah, I became frustrated. By the end I could care less about the grade, I just wanted her to stop making false assumptions, and stating inaccurate information. It was like fingernails on a chalkboard.

The issue never was addressed regarding the quality of my work.

Btw, this was a communications professor. How is that for irony?


Now, as an NT had a student approached me with the same email, this would have been my response.


Hello,

I understand your frustration on those particular assignments. If you could forward me a sample of your work submitted in the class as a reminder, I will consider your position, although I would like you to know I am not usually inclined to alter a grade once it has been submitted.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

TG

Then I would have responded back with one of these.

After considering your work, I have decided that the quality was not sufficient enough to reconsider my opinion of your overall success in the class.

After considering your work, I do agree that the value was sufficient, however, as I stated before, I am not inclined to change a grade once it has been submitted. if you would like to re take the course during a more opportune time, I can reassess your work then.

Or

After considering your work I do believe you demonstrated a comprehensive understanding of the class and its content enough to exceed the minor setbacks you faced or the doubt of whether the assignments were late. I will be adjusting your grade to compensate for this point.



The point is, I was not being unreasonable in my request. But you can't reason with an ENFP. What should have been a painless issue, turned into a drama for no reason what so ever.

 

[kyuuei]

I am sorry, did I seem unusually pissed off?

In vent, you absolutely were pissed. You said it yourself like.. 3 times.

Well give a better one. Here: ENFPs often have that high-pitch giggling that drives you crazy. :steam:

Omg, I didn't fail.

The point is, I was not being unreasonable in my request. But you can't reason with an ENFP. What should have been a painless issue, turned into a drama for no reason what so ever.

1. You didn't fail. You got a B. It's a damn good grade. 95% of all scholarships only require 3.5 GPA on. You'll be fine. The more credits you take, the less and less weighty that B becomes. In long run, no one sees "You got a B in x." They see "Bachelors degree in x."
2. You started the drama, you have about a gazillion people telling you that every point you're making is just digging yourself an even more emotionally charged, illogical hole and you're insisting it's just the type that you can're reason with because it's easier to think that way. Which is fine, but don't get mad when people tell you you're being narrow-minded. You're saying something that's illogical, and people NF and NT alike are pointing it out. It's not an NF to NT miscommunication. It's an emotional block that's causing the miscommunication. The situation is common sense.
3. I think you should go back to saying "Well, what else can I say?" about the situation. You've explained your point for days now. And no one is any more convinced. I was convinced you needed to go higher before I got the detailed emails and such.. Now, I'm in the opposite direction. I'm easier to understand the student before I am the instructor, because the student pays for this shit and I've been through bad professors and crappy systems. I know how it is, trust me. The professor just isn't at fault. Only a fraction of it is your fault according to you.. but that still means that fraction costed you consideration, and thus your grade. Chill out and enjoy having a B. It's a good grade.

 

[ThatGirl]

 

[ThatGirl]

Okay, this is the typical interaction between myself and an ENFP:

Normal Day....

ENFP starts doing or saying something dumb, I start assessing whether or not it is worth correcting, and decide it is petty.

I keep going about my business, they keep saying or doing the same thing, as confidently and oblivious as ever.

It starts to feel like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, but I let it go...whatever.

Then something changes, and the little thing they were doing or saying before, that wasn't a big deal, suddenly is a bigger deal. That is when the conversation starts.

For the sake of my further points, I will call this portion ENFP existence.

TG: Lol, I hate to point this out to you but....

At first I thought it Was maybe one or two extreme cases, but now...sheesh.

What is wrong with you guys, how can you honestly go through life thinking the way you do!

It is to the point if I even remotely suspect you may be an ENFP I will instantly feel disturbed by your presence...

The thing is, the ENFP behavior is so universal I can predict the exact reactions, conversations, and issues that will come up.


I don't want to hate a type but...jesus christ!

ENFP: Lol... No...*smile*

What did I do now?

P.S.

It's *nobody.

with all due respect thatgirl-It's because I think you really an ENTP. I figure that's okay to say since you were that before you were an ENTJ or an INTJ.

And yeah ENFPs and ENTPs will piss each ohter off as we both extrovert the shit that is mutually incomprehensible.

I love my ENTP though but we both mutually enjoy insulting our perspective judging functions and ridiculously inept outlooks on life.

Hugs!

I have said that she is ENTP many, many times because of our petty disagreements in vent and the fact that others around us see similarities in our behavior; I remember once thinking that she was like a T version of me.

It would also explain why she can't decided if she's an introvert or extrovert.

I love the idea of ENFPs inadvertently creating consequences. It implies we're guileless and have no intentions.

Suuure. You keep thinkin' that.

TG: Yes, for these reasons.......See?

Lol at the typing errors.


Okay, this is the typical interaction between myself and an ENFP:

Normal Day.......

Okay

This was my letter.

This was the response

Does no one else see this?

Original post and response.

Then it went like this:

Then this response,

Followed by my previously submitted responses.

I am open to analysis.

ENFP: You're obviously saying that because *insert insanely evil motive or intent*

"I'm a single mom" is not an excuse in college for not having a textbook. Everyone in college is a single mom or dad. How would the professor ever know if you truly were one or not? People lie all the time. "My grandma died, thats why I wasn't in the review! PLEASE email it to me!" You basically said "I had no textbook, I was late on assignments or didn't do them, but I deserve to have my grade botched even though I didn't give you 100%."

You're smart TG. If you had tried, you would have gotten an A. But you didn't, so you didn't.

I have said that she is ENTP many, many times because of our petty disagreements in vent and the fact that others around us see similarities in our behavior; I remember once thinking that she was like a T version of me.

It would also explain why she can't decided if she's an introvert or extrovert.

This isn't very INTJ of you.

No, not at all.

 

[ThatGirl]

I would like to point out, that I could have done this for every sentence in the post regarding how a typical conversation between myself and an ENFP tends to go, but I was unsure if I could post such a large one. Plus, I didn't really see the benefit of taking the time to organize it, I think you can see the main idea from this example.

This pretty much makes my entire analysis, on their type, my understanding of the interactions, and the op pretty accurate.

So to get back on track.

How do I fix this? Or why is it like this with you guys? What do you people want from me! Lol. Lets get into the psychology of it now.

 

[Tiltyred]

I don't know what went on in vent, or what it all has to do with typology, but my impression is that this teacher is not remembering accurately, does not even follow up on her own word, was somewhat lackadaisical (and you can tell her I said so) about various things that would have made a difference to ThatGirl, and has got a generally flaky edge to her that's unfortunate in someone who has power over you. I get from ThatGirl that if she worked hard and felt she'd earned a B+, she could accept that fine, but being asked to accept it because of circumstances she and the teacher do not agree on is a really difficult adjustment. Whether it's politic or not to press a teacher to that extent is another thing, but IMO it's always worth a shot. Sorry it didn't work out.

 

[ThatGirl]

Wow, very well said.

Thank you.

 

[rav3n]

I don't know what went on in vent, or what it all has to do with typology, but my impression is that this teacher is not remembering accurately, does not even follow up on her own word, was somewhat lackadaisical (and you can tell her I said so) about various things that would have made a difference to ThatGirl, and has got a generally flaky edge to her that's unfortunate in someone who has power over you. I get from ThatGirl that if she worked hard and felt she'd earned a B+, she could accept that fine, but being asked to accept it because of circumstances she and the teacher do not agree on is a really difficult adjustment. Whether it's politic or not to press a teacher to that extent is another thing, but IMO it's always worth a shot. Sorry it didn't work out.

There's an added component to this although I agree with your analysis. Where we disagree is the starting point. Were ThatGirl's special requests reasonable? As an objective observer and looking back at my own experiences with profs, I would say no.

 

[ThatGirl]

It was unreasonable to make and support a case for why she should simply review my work?

Really?

 

[rav3n]

Go further back than that point. You wanted special concessions throughout the year. You also had every right to ask for those concessions. Whether she chose to give you concessions was completely up to her. If she gave you concessions and didn't uphold them to the perfect degree that you require, was her right since they were special concessions. And pragmatically speaking, she holds all the power in this interaction which is part of the reason why you're so pissed off.

 

[ThatGirl]

That still doesn't make my requests "unreasonable."

One of the first things you learn in college is to try. To speak to your professors if there are any concerns. A good professor will tell you upfront whether or not they are okay with helping out their students and to what extent. Students rely on the straightforwardness of their teachers in order to assess whether they are in a position to attend the class in the first place.

I have no inclination to think it is even remotely unreasonable to expect accuracy and honesty from freaking teacher.

 

[rav3n]

"Hi, I expect you to treat me special, in a perfect way."

 

[ThatGirl]

:rolli:

 

[sculpting]

I don't know what went on in vent, or what it all has to do with typology, but my impression is that this teacher is not remembering accurately, does not even follow up on her own word, was somewhat lackadaisical (and you can tell her I said so) about various things that would have made a difference to ThatGirl, and has got a generally flaky edge to her that's unfortunate in someone who has power over you. I get from ThatGirl that if she worked hard and felt she'd earned a B+, she could accept that fine, but being asked to accept it because of circumstances she and the teacher do not agree on is a really difficult adjustment. Whether it's politic or not to press a teacher to that extent is another thing, but IMO it's always worth a shot. Sorry it didn't work out.

It is actually of great value to see your perspective on this tilty as it gives some credence to TG's feeling of moral offense.

Omg, I didn't fail.

You guys seriously? First of all there is no way you can possibly tell if I am right or wrong in questioning my grade by reading emails alone.

You would have had to attend the class, seen the work of others submitted, the quality of my work, and the interactions between myself and the professor.

You are asking to take Fe evidence as objective data.

I am pretty sure she is a ditz, and know for a fact she is not remembering correctly. So while she may have been convincing in her arguments, they were based off of subjective misinformation.

No one sees that?

I totally get what you are saying. ENFPs in text can come across as both very confident and kinda bitchy. We use Te to structure textual arguments. So I can see that she may sound and even feel very certain in these emails, but she may be more ditzy in person.

Anyway, how this pertains. She was flaky throughout the entire class. She was inconsistent and obviously needs ginko biloba. Also this "so professional" college course point is shit. I seriously was in a class with people who did their assignments while cussing during their presentations, or not doing them at all. A few I actually think had mental disabilities.

So it just doesn't add up. I read these peoples work.

But, whatever its over she is a bitch. I know I am right, and she is stubbornly chosing to stay wrong.

Now everyone bust out your N. The reason this pertains to the thread,

You mean she lacks Ti? She grades herself and others around her by objective standards and accomplishment of deliverables assigned. So you really cant legitimately call her "inconsistent" simply because she appears flaky. Did she deliver on the things she promised to deliver on? Did she fufill the requirements of her position as called out by her job description and the course? If so, no matter how flaky she is, she did what was needed. To allege preferential grading you would need to present her with objective evidence-tests scores or objective criteria that were requested during each presentation-that others failed to provide, yet didnt loose points for. If you cannot demonstrate this preferential treatment in an objective way-you dont have case to present to her.

In the first email I clearly provided reasons as to why she should reconsider the quality of my work, and asked her to think about it.

She didn't understand my clear intent and automatically assigned shady motives to my position. She responded that I was looking for her to assign points to a paper never submitted or to add points on a multiple choice assignment, and didn't even stop to consider she was wrong regarding late work. She grades in two color ink, is NOT proof that she wasn't mistaken.

See, this is a huge case of miscommunication. I have to be honest, my hackles automatically raised reading your email. When I taught organic chem lab, I typically dealt with 30-40 kids in each course with two courses a week. I would do everything I could to accomodate folks who had special needs of some sort in advance. But once grades were in, I felt morally bound to treat everyone the same with no room for reconsideration. I suspect this is some Te/Fi thing about integrity and authenticity in my interactions with others. You were perhaps poking her a bit with Ti-pointing out logical inconsistencies which she should stop and consider and she heard it as a shady request for preferential treatment. This is unfortuante.

So instead of addressing the point of the email she made up this other point for me to respond to.

I corrected her perception of my intentions, and instead of using that to take a step back and reconsider the original letter, it had already become an issue of who was wrong and who was right.

She brought up false points, like how this is a psychological issue for me, or that I may have had trouble taking a hybrid class. How she wasn't wrong, and took the moral high ground, as though I was being unreasonable.

All this because I asked her to reconsider my work.

At this point she was slightly on the defensive. She sensed moral offense in herself due to your request, but almost skipped the moral condemnation of you, then went to trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. So she tried to suggest several Te-ish reasons for why you may have not done as well as you would have liked in the course, then tried to give you positive affirmation with Fi. The interesting part-I think I would have been much more outright and directly addressed the request for the grade change as being against policy unless objective evidence could be presented.

The point is, I was not being unreasonable in my request. But you can't reason with an ENFP. What should have been a painless issue, turned into a drama for no reason what so ever.

Our entire worldview differs thus miscommunication will always be there sadly.

Kudos on the single parent thing though and best wishes. My son was born my second semester of college and I did the single mom thing and it is really rough, so I understand the frustration with time and resources all too well. To be honest, when I taught, i dealt with a lot of lazy people, so it becomes easy to just assume one of the many people you are interacting with is making excuses-rather than treat them as an individual. this is unfortunate so i am sorry you had to deal with a shitty experience.

 

[Tiltyred]

There's an added component to this although I agree with your analysis. Where we disagree is the starting point. Were ThatGirl's special requests reasonable? As an objective observer and looking back at my own experiences with profs, I would say no.

Define "reasonable." I think it's reasonable to believe that if the teacher says to talk to her if there were any concerns, and you mention that you are having problems with Financial Aid and can't afford your book just yet, that's an easily addressed concern that for some reason the teacher just didn't feel like helping TG out with. AND to add insult to injury, announced to the class that she was going to put a book in the library but didn't, for no good reason.

She's also really defensive in her tone throughout.

It's 20 points out of 1000 and there are two points of disagreement: 1) TG was not late with a given assignment, she can prove this with the time stamp, and the teacher says she was, 2) ... ok, I forget the other one. But assume there is disagreement about two facts, ok? What is the teacher's investment in keeping back the A? She doesn't gain or lose. It's TG's loss, and if she protests it, and if there is any wiggle room at all about any facts, why not give her the benefit?

It's particularly galling because the teacher obviously makes allowances for her own human failings and gives herself the liberty of being human and inexact. But when TG wants the same latitude, the teacher turns into a bean counter with colored inks who wants to talk about scores. Very frustrating, seems like bullshit given her Oh Well manner in other things. TG argues that even though the points don't add up exactly, TG demonstrably knows her stuff to an A degree. ...

I don't see any more reasonableness on one side than the other.

 

[rav3n]

Top down analytics.

An imperfect being requested special concessions. The prof. agreed to some concessions but not all. The prof also didn't execute her concessions in the perfect manner that the imperfect being expected and when pushed to do so, shut down.

Glass houses.