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  1. #81
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    Pressuring a professor to change your grade when you never bought the text book, all whilst trying to bully her by calling her a bad teacher is far from reasonable.

    I can't even fathom rationalizing such a thing. Your motives and even your methods of execution are totally emotional.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    You mean she lacks Ti? She grades herself and others around her by objective standards and accomplishment of deliverables assigned. So you really cant legitimately call her "inconsistent" simply because she appears flaky. Did she deliver on the things she promised to deliver on? Did she fufill the requirements of her position as called out by her job description and the course? If so, no matter how flaky she is, she did what was needed. To allege preferential grading you would need to present her with objective evidence-tests scores or objective criteria that were requested during each presentation-that others failed to provide, yet didnt loose points for. If you cannot demonstrate this preferential treatment in an objective way-you dont have case to present to her.
    This is an excellent argument for why she's not NTJ. An NTJ wouldn't expect someone to be so "flexy" with their objective standards. I'm an FP and I accept objective standards. It's just HOW IT IS with Te. Te is consistent, especially in a professional arena like your freaking job working with large numbers of students.

    It also explains why Metaphors sees this so clearly just as Kyuuei, you, and I do...we're seeing this through a Te lens and she seems to be seeing this from a Ti/Fe lens...with heavy emphasis on the Fe.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Easy for you to say! It's not your A!

    And p.s., bullshit! The teacher assigns the value. She gives however many points she thinks things are worth. That is not some absolute that we can all accept without question. Just because it's expressed as a number does not mean it's an objective fact. It's all very personal -- how the teacher evaluates, what makes her try to assume professional distance when she's asked to change a grade for cause but makes her drop professional distance when she announces she forgot something important to TG as if it is cute, all of that is personal and subjective.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    This is an excellent argument for why she's not NTJ. An NTJ wouldn't expect someone to be so "flexy" with their objective standards. I'm an FP and I accept objective standards. It's just HOW IT IS with Te. Te is consistent, especially in a professional arena like your freaking job working with large numbers of students.

    It also explains why Metaphors sees this so clearly just as Kyuuei, you, and I do...we're seeing this through a Te lens and she seems to be seeing this from a Ti/Fe lens...with heavy emphasis on the Fe.
    I don't think it's a Te thing. I think TG is just upset she didn't get the grade she wanted. Her arguments really aren't rational, Ti-based, or realistic in this case. I can't imagine asking a teacher to review already-graded work, after grades had been calculated and turned in, based upon the fact that I had issues that prevented me from getting the A I wanted. If she'd had a problem with the way the teacher graded her work, she should have come to her at the time the assignments were handed back. To want to hand in a "representative" piece of work so the teacher might think, "Hey, this is student tried hard and did well on the assignments she wasn't too busy for! I should arbitrarily give her 20 points based upon that fact!" makes no logical sense to me.

    I was a student much longer than I've been a teacher, and I'd never have thought of asking any of my teachers to do what she's asking. If she didn't like the teacher's "flaky" ways or method of grading, she had the option of dropping the class. Sometimes you're not going to like your teacher's personality or grading criteria. You kind of vote with your feet in those instances, or accept them and move on.
    Something Witty

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Easy for you to say! It's not your A!

    And p.s., bullshit! The teacher assigns the value. She gives however many points she thinks things are worth. That is not some absolute that we can all accept without question. Just because it's expressed as a number does not mean it's an objective fact. It's all very personal -- how the teacher evaluates, what makes her try to assume professional distance when she's asked to change a grade for cause but makes her drop professional distance when she announces she forgot something important to TG as if it is cute, all of that is personal and subjective.
    People who use Te have objective standards and they feel that's the only way they can create fairness (they lack the Fe sense of fairness) ... TG just wanted special treatment, and when she didn't get it, she resorted to pushy behavior that borders on bullying (which I guess is kind of a fucked-up Fe way of handling the situation) and the teacher, having Te/Fi, was polite but of course didn't budge in the face of what was emotional manipulation, not reason.

    I have made a B before in a class from a teacher who had very high standards, and I accepted it because I admitted to myself that I could have done this or that. I had a 3.9 GPA in college, btw, so if anyone understands wanting As, it's me.

    I can't decide if I think TG's behavior is more irrational or morally reprehensible. I'm just a dumb, ditzy ENFP so I guess I'll never know.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    An NTJ wouldn't expect someone to be so "flexy" with their objective standards.
    I agree. I've got quite a few INTJs in my life...

    okay I actually don't even know what to say. I subscribed to the thread but don't even know how to respond because I have a difficult time seeing TG as INTJ...and I still don't think the prof is ENFP (I get ISFJ) Alrighty then.

    Happy New Year everyone!

  7. #87
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I graduated with a 3.4, for what it's worth in this discussion...

    I don't think TG is irrational or morally reprehensible either one.

    If she's an INTJ, I'll eat my hat, though.

    The teacher, I don't know about.

  8. #88
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    I seriously did not want to do this but here goes.

    The semester started with many people trying to figure out the process behind this teacher’s class. It was hybrid, half online, half in class. She would post assignments on like Saturday night which was due on Monday, over Labor Day weekend. I managed to catch those assignments, because I have no life, but many people in the class ended up having late work.

    All of my assignments were posted on time, with the exception of two. One of those assignments required the text to complete, the other was a partner project we were supposed to recruit a friend to help us complete. This assignment was where we were supposed to go around with a friend and do all these crazy experiments, like eating in a restaurant and speaking extra loudly, while the partner observes the reaction. Then I was supposed to write about what I saw, and what my partner saw.

    So I had two late assignments that had good reasons behind them. The entire class had late assignments, just because they weren’t paying attention.
    I approached the teacher and told her of my concerns about the non verbal assignment, and the one that required the text book. I was actually wondering if she had an extra one I could borrow, because at the same time, I was hashing it out with financial aid who was dicking me around saying that I had not submitted required paperwork when I in fact did, which they found later, then proceeded to tell me they had 45 days from that point to process it. I turned it in MONTHS prior (anyway side story lots of details, if you have questions on this, ask).

    The teacher instead told me she would submit one to the library, which was fine because I assumed I could do my work the half an hour before class started or copy the pages I needed. I also asked several class members if I could borrow theirs, but that was a no go. What can I say, I was desperate. The book was never submitted to the library, I never got to copy anything or borrow another’s. I finished the assignment requiring the text by googling the content of the paper as much as I could to get an accurate understanding of what was being asked. I completed the work and submitted it to the teacher. I even e-mailed her to tell her they were done.

    During this e-mail, I again brought up the issues I was having with the assignment that required a partner. She told me to ask someone from the class. When I did, they just told me they didn’t do it, and made up all their answers. So they were like, just make something up. I am not a good story teller; I was not going to complete the assignment by trying my best to lie. The assignment was worth 35 points. Which I decided was not a big deal, since I was receiving 35/35 on everything else, and the time I told my professor I would turn it in by had passed. So, I just thought I had to chalk this one up, and remain consistent on everything else. I kept up on the current assignments. Making sure I answered every question thoroughly to ensure max points.

    At this time, and my work was already up to date, the professor started getting frustrated with people who were still missing assignments. So she set a final due date for everyone to submit what they were missing. This day came and went, I did nothing else because I had already turned in everything I could do, and remained current on the rest of my work.

    Then grades started being posted, and I noticed that some I had a zero on, which indicated that it was never turned in. I approached the teacher again and told her I had work that was never graded. She told me she would look into it. She didn’t, and then the next class she told me in front of the class that I still had missing assignments for which I nodded, IN AGREENMENT, because I too noticed that those assignments were missing from my grades. Being that this was stated in front of the class, I did not respond right away.

    Instead when I got home, I again e-mailed the teacher and tried to link her specific posts, but the links would only go to the blackboard homepage. So, I added the papers as attachments, and told her where they were posted and on what day and at what time. I wish I still had that e-mail, but unfortunately, I deleted it from my phone, which deletes it from my inbox permanently.

    During this time the mid-term was announced as open book, and I still was fighting with financial aid, enough to walk into the Dean’s office pissed the fuck off, yelled loud enough for everyone to turn and stare and demanded results. At which point I was taken into the head of financial aid, through the back door, lol, and promised that the problem was solved, apologized to, and told a check would be on its way. I had to take off work to do this.

    I thought the check would arrive by the mid-term it didn’t. On the day of the mid-term (I kept bringing up the book issue in passing though had sort of decided it was a moot point since nothing was getting done) the teacher showed up, and made her comment about bringing extra books for people she knew in the class didn’t have one, then laughed like …oops .

    I was pissed but, sat down took the mid-term, again asked people in class if they would allow me to use their book when they were done. This time they agreed, but took so much damn time taking their tests, I didn’t get the opportunity. I tried to just figure out the answers logically, and got a 76%. From my understanding the class average, with the help of the text was about 71 or something.

    The next week, I received my check, and bought the text.

    Now during this time, my assignments still had not been corrected; I remained current on all my other assignments and was receiving grades like 35/35. I received 100/100 on my term project, which the professor stated was the best one submitted in class to the class. I received 100/100 on my final exam. I got 95/100 on participation, which surprised me, since I was always there and volunteered for every project, with the exception of two absences. I worked consistently, using the same strategy to complete all my papers.

    Finally, the class before the last class (which is when we took the final) I walked into class, and asked the professor if I could use the main computer of the class to pull up something before the rest of the class arrived. She agreed. I pulled up my blackboard and started showing her specific posts that were submitted on there, though never graded.

    She told me, and didn’t even take the time to look at all of them because people were coming in) that if she missed them it must have been because they were late. Which was WRONG!, and to e-mail her the assignments. Which I did send one last e-mail, stating that she had still not graded those specific assignments. I thought, because they are time stamped, that when she actually found them, she would see they were not late, also I had already sent her e-mails with the specific times and dates they were submitted.

    So you can imagine my SHOCK, when I started receiving 17/35, and I think another one was like a 29/35. They were graded weird. I was consistent in my writing style, and strategy, and damn it they were NOT late, and they answered all her damn questions just like all my 35/35 papers did.

    I didn’t see these until after the last class. I didn’t say anything because I thought I still had an A in the class. When I saw the B posted, again I was shocked, went back and calculated, and found out about the 88%.

    That’s when I started to e-mail her the first letter, which I will admit, was from a very frustrated, and just like ARE YOU KIDDING ME place.

    I tried to keep my composure. I didn't want to say too muck for fear off going off, which I sort of did a bit by the last letter, at which point I already realized it was like talking to a wall.

  9. #89
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    Just write an angry missive to the head of department and hand deliver it and let him know that if it isn't dealt with satisfactorily then you shall go to his boss and complain.

  10. #90
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    You might have a bit of a case if you can prove that the lower grades for the 35 point assignments were due to her assuming your lateness, and then can provide the time stamps, etc. But if you can't prove that's the reason the grade was lower, it won't matter much. The teacher creates the assignments, and she gets to grade whether they're done satisfactorily. I'm not sure there's much of a leg to stand on with the textbook midterm. You might plead your case with documentation showing when your aid finally came through, and explaining that you didn't buy a text prior to that because she said she'd put one in the library. I wouldn't go in guns blazing, though, and I certainly wouldn't give the impression you think this woman is a flake. Act like you're sure it was an honest misunderstanding. Remember, if this woman is full-time, she's probably teaching 6 or so sections, plus all her other professional obligations. It's very difficult to deal with and remember everyone's special cases over multiple classes. (And she has a life, too.) I'm not surprised she forgot to bring extra textbooks (which was, again, a nice gesture, not an obligation in any way).
    Something Witty

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