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  1. #71
    ThatGirl
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    Wow, very well said.

    Thank you.

  2. #72
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I don't know what went on in vent, or what it all has to do with typology, but my impression is that this teacher is not remembering accurately, does not even follow up on her own word, was somewhat lackadaisical (and you can tell her I said so) about various things that would have made a difference to ThatGirl, and has got a generally flaky edge to her that's unfortunate in someone who has power over you. I get from ThatGirl that if she worked hard and felt she'd earned a B+, she could accept that fine, but being asked to accept it because of circumstances she and the teacher do not agree on is a really difficult adjustment. Whether it's politic or not to press a teacher to that extent is another thing, but IMO it's always worth a shot. Sorry it didn't work out.
    There's an added component to this although I agree with your analysis. Where we disagree is the starting point. Were ThatGirl's special requests reasonable? As an objective observer and looking back at my own experiences with profs, I would say no.

  3. #73
    ThatGirl
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    It was unreasonable to make and support a case for why she should simply review my work?

    Really?

  4. #74
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Go further back than that point. You wanted special concessions throughout the year. You also had every right to ask for those concessions. Whether she chose to give you concessions was completely up to her. If she gave you concessions and didn't uphold them to the perfect degree that you require, was her right since they were special concessions. And pragmatically speaking, she holds all the power in this interaction which is part of the reason why you're so pissed off.

  5. #75
    ThatGirl
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    That still doesn't make my requests "unreasonable."

    One of the first things you learn in college is to try. To speak to your professors if there are any concerns. A good professor will tell you upfront whether or not they are okay with helping out their students and to what extent. Students rely on the straightforwardness of their teachers in order to assess whether they are in a position to attend the class in the first place.

    I have no inclination to think it is even remotely unreasonable to expect accuracy and honesty from freaking teacher.

  6. #76
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    "Hi, I expect you to treat me special, in a perfect way."

  7. #77
    ThatGirl
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    :rolli:

  8. #78
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I don't know what went on in vent, or what it all has to do with typology, but my impression is that this teacher is not remembering accurately, does not even follow up on her own word, was somewhat lackadaisical (and you can tell her I said so) about various things that would have made a difference to ThatGirl, and has got a generally flaky edge to her that's unfortunate in someone who has power over you. I get from ThatGirl that if she worked hard and felt she'd earned a B+, she could accept that fine, but being asked to accept it because of circumstances she and the teacher do not agree on is a really difficult adjustment. Whether it's politic or not to press a teacher to that extent is another thing, but IMO it's always worth a shot. Sorry it didn't work out.
    It is actually of great value to see your perspective on this tilty as it gives some credence to TG's feeling of moral offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Omg, I didn't fail.

    You guys seriously? First of all there is no way you can possibly tell if I am right or wrong in questioning my grade by reading emails alone.

    You would have had to attend the class, seen the work of others submitted, the quality of my work, and the interactions between myself and the professor.
    You are asking to take Fe evidence as objective data.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I am pretty sure she is a ditz, and know for a fact she is not remembering correctly. So while she may have been convincing in her arguments, they were based off of subjective misinformation.

    No one sees that?
    I totally get what you are saying. ENFPs in text can come across as both very confident and kinda bitchy. We use Te to structure textual arguments. So I can see that she may sound and even feel very certain in these emails, but she may be more ditzy in person.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Anyway, how this pertains. She was flaky throughout the entire class. She was inconsistent and obviously needs ginko biloba. Also this "so professional" college course point is shit. I seriously was in a class with people who did their assignments while cussing during their presentations, or not doing them at all. A few I actually think had mental disabilities.

    So it just doesn't add up. I read these peoples work.

    But, whatever its over she is a bitch. I know I am right, and she is stubbornly chosing to stay wrong.

    Now everyone bust out your N. The reason this pertains to the thread,
    You mean she lacks Ti? She grades herself and others around her by objective standards and accomplishment of deliverables assigned. So you really cant legitimately call her "inconsistent" simply because she appears flaky. Did she deliver on the things she promised to deliver on? Did she fufill the requirements of her position as called out by her job description and the course? If so, no matter how flaky she is, she did what was needed. To allege preferential grading you would need to present her with objective evidence-tests scores or objective criteria that were requested during each presentation-that others failed to provide, yet didnt loose points for. If you cannot demonstrate this preferential treatment in an objective way-you dont have case to present to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    In the first email I clearly provided reasons as to why she should reconsider the quality of my work, and asked her to think about it.

    She didn't understand my clear intent and automatically assigned shady motives to my position. She responded that I was looking for her to assign points to a paper never submitted or to add points on a multiple choice assignment, and didn't even stop to consider she was wrong regarding late work. She grades in two color ink, is NOT proof that she wasn't mistaken.
    See, this is a huge case of miscommunication. I have to be honest, my hackles automatically raised reading your email. When I taught organic chem lab, I typically dealt with 30-40 kids in each course with two courses a week. I would do everything I could to accomodate folks who had special needs of some sort in advance. But once grades were in, I felt morally bound to treat everyone the same with no room for reconsideration. I suspect this is some Te/Fi thing about integrity and authenticity in my interactions with others. You were perhaps poking her a bit with Ti-pointing out logical inconsistencies which she should stop and consider and she heard it as a shady request for preferential treatment. This is unfortuante.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    So instead of addressing the point of the email she made up this other point for me to respond to.

    I corrected her perception of my intentions, and instead of using that to take a step back and reconsider the original letter, it had already become an issue of who was wrong and who was right.

    She brought up false points, like how this is a psychological issue for me, or that I may have had trouble taking a hybrid class. How she wasn't wrong, and took the moral high ground, as though I was being unreasonable.

    All this because I asked her to reconsider my work.
    At this point she was slightly on the defensive. She sensed moral offense in herself due to your request, but almost skipped the moral condemnation of you, then went to trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. So she tried to suggest several Te-ish reasons for why you may have not done as well as you would have liked in the course, then tried to give you positive affirmation with Fi. The interesting part-I think I would have been much more outright and directly addressed the request for the grade change as being against policy unless objective evidence could be presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    The point is, I was not being unreasonable in my request. But you can't reason with an ENFP. What should have been a painless issue, turned into a drama for no reason what so ever.
    Our entire worldview differs thus miscommunication will always be there sadly.

    Kudos on the single parent thing though and best wishes. My son was born my second semester of college and I did the single mom thing and it is really rough, so I understand the frustration with time and resources all too well. To be honest, when I taught, i dealt with a lot of lazy people, so it becomes easy to just assume one of the many people you are interacting with is making excuses-rather than treat them as an individual. this is unfortunate so i am sorry you had to deal with a shitty experience.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    There's an added component to this although I agree with your analysis. Where we disagree is the starting point. Were ThatGirl's special requests reasonable? As an objective observer and looking back at my own experiences with profs, I would say no.
    Define "reasonable." I think it's reasonable to believe that if the teacher says to talk to her if there were any concerns, and you mention that you are having problems with Financial Aid and can't afford your book just yet, that's an easily addressed concern that for some reason the teacher just didn't feel like helping TG out with. AND to add insult to injury, announced to the class that she was going to put a book in the library but didn't, for no good reason.

    She's also really defensive in her tone throughout.

    It's 20 points out of 1000 and there are two points of disagreement: 1) TG was not late with a given assignment, she can prove this with the time stamp, and the teacher says she was, 2) ... ok, I forget the other one. But assume there is disagreement about two facts, ok? What is the teacher's investment in keeping back the A? She doesn't gain or lose. It's TG's loss, and if she protests it, and if there is any wiggle room at all about any facts, why not give her the benefit?

    It's particularly galling because the teacher obviously makes allowances for her own human failings and gives herself the liberty of being human and inexact. But when TG wants the same latitude, the teacher turns into a bean counter with colored inks who wants to talk about scores. Very frustrating, seems like bullshit given her Oh Well manner in other things. TG argues that even though the points don't add up exactly, TG demonstrably knows her stuff to an A degree. ...

    I don't see any more reasonableness on one side than the other.

  10. #80
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Top down analytics.

    An imperfect being requested special concessions. The prof. agreed to some concessions but not all. The prof also didn't execute her concessions in the perfect manner that the imperfect being expected and when pushed to do so, shut down.

    Glass houses.

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