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  1. #111
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post

    I wasted a B on a VERY easy class, when that shouldn't have been the case at all.
    It sounds like a combination of circumstances together that resulted in this. It is quite possible that you weren't treated fairly here. It also sounds like a crappy teacher. If you want to make a case though, you'd need facts and evidence. The case needs to be objective not subjective. That's why so many people weren't agreeing with you - because you seemed to be viewing it through a subjective lens and didn't appear to have hard facts or evidence. That long explanation you provided helped to provide a great deal of context on what happened.

    I had this happen in a college class once (B in an easy/basic course). It came down to one exam where the teacher took off a large number of points on a big problem. I made a stupid mistake so the answer was wrong but he should have taken only a couple of points. His interpretation was that the work I showed indicated that I didn't understand the problem or how to solve it. He was wrong. I tried to talk to him about it and it was like talking to a wall. I was pretty furious about that because I felt it was unfair. I also knew that a lot of the students in the class traded assignments with each other, had prior exams, etc. In other words, they were cheating. Haha - I'm getting mad just thinking about it again. In the big picture, it was of two Bs and didn't really matter though.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure he wasn't an ENFP though . Just a crappy teacher.

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  2. #112
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Lol at the typing errors.


    Okay, this is the typical interaction between myself and an ENFP:

    Normal Day....

    ENFP starts doing or saying something dumb, I start assessing whether or not it is worth correcting, and decide it is petty.

    I keep going about my business, they keep saying or doing the same thing, as confidently and oblivious as ever.

    It starts to feel like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, but I let it go...whatever.

    Then something changes, and the little thing they were doing or saying before, that wasn't a big deal, suddenly is a bigger deal. That is when the conversation starts.

    TG: Lol, I hate to point this out to you but....

    ENFP: Lol... No...*smile*

    TG: Yes, for these reasons.......See?

    ENFP: You're obviously saying that because *insert insanely evil motive or intent*

    TG: :O....What?....No. Where did you even get that from. Look..... let me explain it again, maybe in a different way....*insert what is logic and truth*

    ENFP: *Changes and suddenly takes a you vs. them stance* Well you are this, or have done this, or said this. I can see where you *insert emotionally motivated factor* so its fine.

    TG: ?...No!... I didn't, and besides that isn't the point. The point is *goes back to original point*....and don't say it is fine when the initial issue hasn't even been addressed yet.

    ENFP: Wow, I am really surprised by how you're acting.

    TG: :O *starts to wonder if ENFP is really that delusional, dumb, or just trying to win* Look it isn't worth it, just forget it, you obviously don't get it.

    ENFP: *Repeats dumb thing said,or dumb action, confidently to show me they can do whatever they want*

    TG: You're nuts, and wrong, and immature. And wrong! Don't you even care?

    ENFP: I am not going to argue with you. *Slams door*

    TG: ..... :O *speechless* .....Wow. I should have just nailed their ass the first time they fucked up. Last time I try to reason with an ENFP.

    Now, this isn't a specific scenario but outlines pretty decently the path my interactions with ENFPs take. Different levels of intensity of course.
    ENTP ENTP ENTP

    You arent an INTJ. ENFPs and INTJs at least have a chance of attraction via their mutual Fi. Your description SCREAMS Ti/FI-Te conflict. I have similar problems with my ENFP friend.
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
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    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  3. #113
    ThatGirl
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    And what happens when Fi and Fi don't agree on Te, which was brought to attention under Ni, regarding faulty Ne, then pursued?

  4. #114
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I presented more evidence, because you obviously were not getting the point and seeing it for yourself. My last explanation is completely consistent with my broad points at all times, it is just more detailed in explanation.

    I never assume off the bat, that I have to get into all the nitty gritty details. Talk about exhausting if I had to do that all the time for everyone. I assume that people can fill in the blanks themselves by looking at the overall point.

    I appreciate your feed back into the ENFP instructor's mind. It seemed inevitable though that if I was frustrated about her interpretation and stance, that I would also be frustrated by yours. Since you are both ENFP, the same issues came into play during both interactions.
    Interestingly, your initial post was extremely emotional. As an ENFP-I will unconsciously treat you as another ENFP. Thus I see a bunch of emo-ie Fi whining-then a bunch of excuses-Te rationalization for Fi whining. However this is my error-as you are actually using Fe to make a plea for change, thus supplementing with more and more Ti information-thus the nitty-gritty- details above. It's an interesting perspective. Again, ENTP-ENFP will very often, almost always end up in confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    And what happens when Fi and Fi don't agree on Te, which was brought to attention under Ni, regarding faulty Ne, then pursued?
    An INTJ would not typically argue Te with Fi-unless it was a cause exceptionally close to their heart. Like religion or a very particular Fi value they choose to extrovert. Otherwise, If presented with a faulty Te statement, the INTJ would coldly, objectively dismantle it with Te. Most INTJs wouldnt use Fi on coursework or grades...

  5. #115
    ThatGirl
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    Well, I am not most INTJs...obviously. I am almost positive I have different motivations that most you will encounter.

    I didn't see my e-mail as emotional at all, and have previously explained the exact outline I was using when writing it, which right there shows a certain character.

    But whatever, you guys want to make this about my type, thats fine. But I refuse to listen to any more inaccurate information on the subject.

    Instead of thinking about how one type would typically get along with another, ENFP/ENTP, because that is what your experience tells you is most likely to happen, how about thinking about how it is possible for an INTJ to not think you guys are the greatest, despite what the typologists say about the perfect pairs?

    Then we would be getting further.

  6. #116
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I didn't see my e-mail as emotional at all,
    That's quite interesting because I definitely saw a good deal of emotion behind the words, regardless as to whether or not the words used were emotional.

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  7. #117
    ThatGirl
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    That is an interpretation then. If there was any emotion to be seen it would be repressed frustration while trying to sound respectful.

    I have this problem all the time. People assume because they feel something from me, that I feel it myself or am operating from that level. Which is not the case. Usually it comes down to projection, as in how you would feel if you were in that situation. I thought I was as factual as I could be without down right attacking.

    I also assumed the professor was aware of the history, since she participated in it.


    ...Ugh, nevermind.

  8. #118
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I had to explain a computer program today to an enfp. First it was totally taxing for me cause she couldnt stop talking and tried to find out everything by herself but her approach was fundamentally wrong and you could just hope for her doing a lucky guess. After 45 minutes or so she ran out of ideas and I finally had a chance to explain step by step that did work.

    Unluckily she was pissed afterwards because she didnt found out herself and I probably explained it with too much arrogance (tho I really didnt, I can watch those things) and she had to call me later telling me that she spoke to the boss and I explained her something wrong but she would know now how its working. I smiled, said alright then and hung up. The thing is what she told me was the complicated way to do a thing, I told her the easy way, but well the boss is an idiot.

    I dont know what to do with myself, I am just too smart for the rest of the world
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #119
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    hm. i think i understand why the prof incident occurred, at least in part.

    the way i see it, is essentially that you (TG) had a logical problem with the prof's grading - and probably a well-founded one, given your explanation of the circumstances - but the language you used in your letter to the prof was quite subjective/emotional (i can go back and point out where i see this if you would like) and i suspect that a combination of that and your prof being (probably strong) Fi caused your professor to address it in subjective terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl
    She didn't understand my clear intent and automatically assigned shady motives to my position.
    the thing is, any strong Fi type is going to tend to feel emotional subtext in language before analyzing rational connection - and an NF in particular is going to see connotations and concentrate on motivation (not intent - but motivation - subtle but important difference in that you can have good intent but inapplicable motivation). that's kind of the communication problem that occurred, i think, and why you didn't get a response like the ones you think you would have gotten from an NT. the impression i got from your letter is much what the professor reflected - "she wants an A but admits herself that she had a lot of issues." and i don't mean any offense, but having worked as an academic tutor and editor for several years, i didn't really find your letter very clear - so add up all the factors that (1) your emotional language connotes that she ought to give you an A (2) she's a communications prof (3) she's a Fi aux (4) she's an NF (5) you are asking for her to do something that seems like extra even though technically her duty has ended - i think that's why your case was quickly disregarded.

    i do see what you mean about the prof not going back and checking herself - and being an ENFP myself i know quite well that we have a tendency to be absent-minded in logical matters and not particularly attentive to detail sometimes. i've had an INFP prof that drove me UP A WALL because he was so inconsistent - loved him in class, but drove me crazy how he randomly cancelled class all the time with no prior notice. and i agree that your teacher has a responsibility to be objective. at the same time, it's the right of the professor to assign a grade to you that they feel is fair.

    in response to this situation, i'm with talullah - build a case and take it to the department head or dean for neutral review.

    --

    anyway, as for dealing with ENFPs - if the pattern is consistent across this case and others, i imagine that same communication issue might be recurring. perhaps ENFPs piss you off in particular because we look to sweeping non-logical patterns - such as motivation - and assess those prior to the rational concerns. i get in a bind like this often with my INTP dad, who does not at all pick up on emotional undertones in conversation, his or the other person's - while i have a very difficult time filtering out broad Feeling implications, whether intended or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie
    tried to find out everything by herself but her approach was fundamentally wrong and you could just hope for her doing a lucky guess.
    the thing is, you realize, that if she worked on it for long enough she'd get it... 45 minutes is nothing! my dad can't stand this one either. i think it's fun exploring and being challenged like that. just think about how much more you learn when you have to figure it out yourself, instead of listening to someone explain it step by step. i'm sure her calling the boss was a point of pride... gotta knock down the NT arrogance somehow lol ;]

  10. #120
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ya ^^ I am a good teacher as long as I am speaking.

    Listening is a difficult thing

    It's sometimes a thing I hate myself for when I am getting a short temper with people because I have my mind full with work. People dont deserve a treatment like this then, plus I just hate my short tempers. I sometimes wish it would be more easy for people to see when I am overworked, especially for my girlfriend. When I tell her she does notice it but it doesnt feel for me that she does respect it and then I am pissed off by that. We then argue and she is really disrespectful, a thing F-people can be a master in and I need to be the one to bring peace and order into the discussion again. (she wouldnt take the initiative to do so, if not at least 3 days have passed, but I cant be brooding about something for so long, I hate disharmony).

    That make me feel that I always have to function and disables me to show any emotion at all, because if I do we'll just argue.

    Can you understand that ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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