[INFP] What do INFPs (and ENFPs) think of INTPs?

[INTP]

i was raised by enfp and my best friend since 1999 is infp. imo we get along great, even tho i might say something hurtful at times by accident, i have learned to notice when i do this, and re-explain in non hurtful way before they get hurt(i notice it in the same moment it comes out of my mouth and i have learned to continue explaining it again in non hurtful way fluidly). sometimes i might make the infp feel like crap with something i say and he has been really close of crying few times, usually because he feels like he cant do anything right and thinks that it makes him a bad person, but then i say something like "you are such a good guy in other ways, that even if you cant chop an onion or wash dishes, you are still one of the greatest guys i have ever met", and then he is happy again. we have same kind of goofy side in us and i can read their mind because i know how they work, and because i know how they work i can give signals to distract them from reading my mind if i want to . my infp friend has said that i balance his irrational thinking with my pure logic pretty well(and im able to talk him out of irrational thinking(at least for a moment), like when he is in eating frenzy and cant stop), and my enfp mom likes long discussions with me because she thinks im such a smart guy. also she has said many times that im the only person who she can be 100% herself, but that might not be only a type thing, i think it has something to do with this also tho. i like NFPs the most of all types, havent met any ENFJs tho and people say that we connect well. NFP types kinda balance me to something i want to be.

i have earlier tested 5w6, but last time i took it i got 5w4 sx

 

[Lady_X]

i've never been really close to one...just don't really know any...one of my favorite people to talk to online was an intp for a long time and then he decided he was an infp haha but i do really like several intps on this forum....i could imagine being pretty good friends with jock, aj and salome if i knew them irl.

 

[KDude]

The only INTP I know is cool. Oddly, the only thing we argued about is that I was trying to act "grounded" in comparison at times. It pissed her off.. I kind of got in her way. I can thank her for calling me out, I guess? She thought we were similar, and that I wasn't being myself.

 

[INTPness]

After reading OrangeAppled's response, specifically in regards to how INTP's always think they are right: Probably 50% of that really is just us trying to "understand" someone. We don't just want to know someone's thoughts on something - we often want to go deeper than that - why do you think that way? How did you reach that conclusion? What experiences brought you to that point? As we listen to your response, we are learning from you. As a 5w4 sx/sp, I love to pick people's brains, see what's inside. People are so interesting when they give you that access. I don't deny that we can be "know-it-alls", but I do think it comes from a pure place - even if it ends in argument. We don't set out to create strife or anything.

The other 50% of that is where we can seem beligerant, arrogant, and unwavering. I'm not defending my position or saying that OrangeAppled is wrong because I know that she is right - I know we can be like that at times. But, I will attempt to explain what it feels like from the INTP perspective in those moments: The very simplest example would be if I was talking to someone and they said, "That's a nice blue car you have. I like it." And I would say, "My car isn't blue, it's red." And they might say, "Well, it kind of looks blue to me." And I would say, "But it's not blue." And it kind of goes like that (again, this is the INTP perspective). As the OP mentioned, it's important for us to remember that we may not have a monopoly on truth - it's important to hear people out and to understand their perspectives (and that's really what we're trying to do in the first place). It gets difficult for us, however, when we *know* (do we really know for sure, I guess that's debatable) something to be true and someone continues to argue with us.

I've used this example before, but I have a younger brother (ESFP) who started bodybuilding and getting into nutrition at a very young age. He's made some great strides in this area and I'm really proud of him. There are times where I go to him when I have questions because he's learned a lot. But, one time (early in his progress) at a family gathering, we were talking about the importance of carbohydrates in one's diet - namely, that they give us energy. Everyone at the gathering was listening to him and learning (myself included) when someone asked him what foods to eat to get a good supply of carbohydrates. He replied with something like, "potatoes, breads, fruits, cookies, cake, etc." I spoke up and said, "those foods all contain carbohydrates - you are right about that - but, potatoes, breads, and fruits contain good carbs, complex carbs. Cookies and cake, on the other hand contain bad carbs - simple carbs as opposed to complex. Simple carbs are basically empty of nutritional value." He said, "No you're wrong. Carbs are carbs. Period. There is no difference from one carb to another carb. You think you know everything about every single subject, but don't argue with me on this subject because I know more than you about this stuff."

His assertion is absolutely false. It's just flat-out bad advice for the people that are listening to him. I can certainly "give him the benefit of the doubt" or "just leave it alone" and let him throw out bad information to people, but that's SO HARD for the INTP to do. I was totally into what he was saying until he vomited that horrible advice. Here's the hard part for the INTP: No matter which way you slice it, the information he gave is still bad. He can try to put any spin on it that he wants. At it's core, it's bad and false information. To the INTP, it would be going against who we are and also irresponsible to let a false statement fly.

I'm going to be fine if the people who received his advice go home and start eating cake and then going for 3 mile-runs and then wonder why they aren't losing weight or why they don't have energy when they run. So, I'm capable of letting it go and "giving him the benefit of the doubt". But, why should I keep my mouth shut when I know it's horrible advice? That's not true to who I am. Whether I let it go or whether I speak up (either way), it's still horrible advice.

That's where we run into trouble. When we've investigated things ourselves through Ti (that's what we do) and we know that the things coming out of someone's mouth are basically hogwash, yet they get mad at us when we try to correct them.

I know someone else (another ESFP) who firmly asserts that there has never, ever (EVER!!) been a positive contribution to this country by any member of one of the major political parties. This person will argue tooth and nail that they honestly believe that NO MEMBER of this party has EVER done ANYTHING good for the country. EVER! Not even once. That's just retarded. It's foolish nonsense. I actually find it hard to believe that those words could possibly come out of anyone's mouth, and so I find a need to explain and defend that political party - even though that party isn't my party. It's about truth.

So yeah, we get ourselves into pickles and we alienate people sometimes and we get under people's skins, but it comes from a good place - we just don't want a bunch of false information being disseminated all over the place. I've always maintained, "If you're going to make strong, absolute statements, at least know what you're talking about. Don't just shoot off at the mouth and then defend your foolishness when someone calls you out on it." Right, wrong, or indifferent, that's the way this INTP sees it.

*hides in fear that this response proves OrangeAppled's assertions about INTP's*

 

[KDude]

That reminds of some conversations I've had with some ESFP friends. They can be knowledgable - but also make mistakes like you're saying (like anyone else) - but I suppose I pick my arguments with them. If it's important, I'll insist on getting the "truth" out, but I don't clarify things for the sake of it. Sometimes it's simply not worth it, and it'll be a pointless shouting contest. No thanks.

 

[hotelflaubert]

I tend to get on quite well with them, though I sometimes find them resistant to compromise, particularly in intellectual discussions. A lot of them also seem to have a real reluctance to engage with their feelings, which is frustrating. On a more positive note, they tend to be clever and interesting, with strong views on things. Lots of them are also endearingly awkward. Underneath that, though, lies a very witty core.

 

[nogracejane]

I've only known one INTP; I really liked him! haha I think I had a crush on him. He was very hard to get to know at first, completely avoided expressing his emotions despite being a musician (whereas I'm very expressive in emotions). Both him and I were pretty awkward (oh, I found his awkwardness very cute at times...), but we grew past it and we get along very well. At times I found him to be a little sensitive or defensive when I was kidding around with him and it annoyed me.

He seemed to like talking to my ENFP male friend a lottt.

 

[kyuuei]

OrangeAppled, this is probably one of my favorite posts from you on here, btw.

I find myself initially extremely attracted to INxx's, at least initially.
As far INTPs specifically, I don't know any IRL. So I'll go based on my limited interactions online with them.

As an ENFP.. something I struggle with is getting worried or nervous that my "shinyness" will wear off. I can meet someone in a very happy, excited mood with bells and whistles going off, looking and acting my best, in tip-top shape. I get this thing where it seems like people are attracted to me for things like this.. but.. this isn't 100% who I am. It IS a part of who I am, and makes me happy to be that way for sure.. but I am mellow as well. I am normal. I am human, and there are many facets to me, and MANY of them are pretty ordinary. Once people realize I'm a pretty regular person, they almost taper off.. lose interest. I wasn't this exciting thing they thought I was. In turn.. I don't feel very exciting or interesting, either...

It scares me a bit to mix that with the "play-thing" mentality INTPs seem to have. Once the puzzle is solved.. Do they frame it and admire their work everyday? Or does it just sit on the shelf and collect dust because they're bored of it?

I could be entirely wrong on this.. I don't know any INTPs IRL.. but. Based on things INTPs have said here, it would concern me on a romantic note. I couldn't care less if they were just friends.

we were both able to be open about our feelings. Even they were surprised at how open they were (but I get that with people a lot). I could also be cynical in my expressions without criticism from one INTP, and he'd do the same with me....we'd egg each other on actually, and then both end up talking the other out of such a negative mindset.

Absolutely, on point, is WHY I am so initially attracted. If I could ever be 100% of myself around anyone, I think it would be an Introverted intuitive. I just get this weight lifted off my shoulders.. like we aren't in society anymore, and I can just *be*.

they made it personal by attacking my views & character so they could soothe their pent up anger at the irrational world.

This part here is where I start to get nervous, however. Once I think I'm safe, and acting like myself.. they also feel more comfortable, and even comfortable enough to start making comments on what they feel are shortcomings. I think they forget how subjective the world is... I don't aim for objectivity, I aim for what's right and fair, in that order. Objectivity is not the only way to get to that.. so I don't always use it. "It is what it is" is something I say a lot.. and I think it's an expression INTPs don't like. "WHY is it that way?! That's like saying 'because I said so!' " I'm sure that saying has made more than one INTP growing up angry. :3

I don't owe an explanation of every belief I have, and it's a courtesy when I do consent to explain my views. Just because I don't explain my thinking does not make it unreasonable[/quote]

This part here makes me even more nervous. Sometimes.. I don't have an explanation. Something comes to me, or happens to me, and it just is. It's there. Or it's been said.. and trying to link it from what spark it's existance in words is extremely difficult for me. I'm attracted to N's because I'm bad at explaining myself and things.. I try.. but I need those intuitive leaps to cover what I miss.

What I dislike is this sort of "prove it to me" attitude, as if the INTP is the sole arbiter of all that is true in the world.

I don't find myself an extremely logical person.. I find value in logic, but not to the extent that this is the only thing I base the world on. The world isn't very logical, if anyone hasn't noticed.. proving everything like it's got to have evidence in a court case makes me feel backed into a corner and sad.. and I just clam up and never talk at all to avoid it.

^it might sound messed up but I believe some INTPs like myself simply like to put other NFs through "the gauntlet".

So long as you INTPs don't get all uppity if and when I do the same.. we're even and fine.

Cold blooded unless they want/need something from you.

I've gotten this vibe as well from INTx's.. they seem really sweet or nice, and then once they've gotten what they were looking for, the attitude totally changes. I've only encountered this from INTJs IRL, but it is a vibe I get from INTx's.

ENFPs, on the other hand, are a different beast entirely and tend to be hit or miss. Some are infuriating, others have such an intrigue to them, they're beautiful puzzles. The difference between how I see the INFP and ENFP, I appropriate to 4/9 vs 7/8 enneagram respectively, or I suppose Ne placement.

I could see myself being infuriating to an INTP even if they did find me interesting enough to stick around for.

With ALL of that said.

Overall, I love them. They're so different from myself.. Personally, variety in nearly everything is what makes things balance out and function correctly.. surrounding myself with people different from myself rocks.

I like having 'partners' in life. People I know treat me as equals.. INTPs seem extremely reassuring about this. Who you are, and what you do make yourself.. not situations. On a romantic note, I don't want to NEED someone.. I just want to learn to need them. I want someone, for sure.. but I'm okay with living life on my own. Having someone that also feels this way makes them the perfect partner-in-crime if you will.

There are some things that worry me, or make me nervous. But I don't think those things are near enough to dampen my optimistic thinking about them. I'll report back when I've had more IRL experience with INTPs.

 

[A window to the soul]

It scares me a bit to mix that with the "play-thing" mentality INTPs seem to have. Once the puzzle is solved.. Do they frame it and admire their work everyday? Or does it just sit on the shelf and collect dust because they're bored of it?

Yes, stuff is sitting on the shelf collecting dust; including people. That doesn't change the fact that a lot of INTP's are some of the most loyal, generous people you'll meet. Fiercly loyal to family. I see where INTP loyalty might also manifest in the form of hording nostalgic items, like impractical gifts, toys from childhood, letters, etc. My INTP Dad is this way. I'm also this way, but I'm practicing more balance as of the new year; such as, deleting old emails. No way am I throwing out my old rubix cube. It's a classic.

I find myself initially extremely attracted to INxx's, at least initially.
As far INTPs specifically, I don't know any IRL. So I'll go based on my limited interactions online with them.

As an ENFP.. something I struggle with is getting worried or nervous that my "shinyness" will wear off. I can meet someone in a very happy, excited mood with bells and whistles going off, looking and acting my best, in tip-top shape. I get this thing where it seems like people are attracted to me for things like this.. but.. this isn't 100% who I am. It IS a part of who I am, and makes me happy to be that way for sure.. but I am mellow as well. I am normal. I am human, and there are many facets to me, and MANY of them are pretty ordinary. Once people realize I'm a pretty regular person, they almost taper off.. lose interest. I wasn't this exciting thing they thought I was. In turn.. I don't feel very exciting or interesting, either...

I doubt it matters to most INTP's if you're shiney all of the time, as long as you can listen when they get on their soapbox (in an attempt to solve whatever problems you are facing). Unfortunately, T's don't tend to sugarcoat their soapbox speeches or rants.

 

[INTPness]

OrangeAppled, this is probably one of my favorite posts from you on here, btw.

I find myself initially extremely attracted to INxx's, at least initially.
As far INTPs specifically, I don't know any IRL. So I'll go based on my limited interactions online with them.

As an ENFP.. something I struggle with is getting worried or nervous that my "shinyness" will wear off. I can meet someone in a very happy, excited mood with bells and whistles going off, looking and acting my best, in tip-top shape. I get this thing where it seems like people are attracted to me for things like this.. but.. this isn't 100% who I am. It IS a part of who I am, and makes me happy to be that way for sure.. but I am mellow as well. I am normal. I am human, and there are many facets to me, and MANY of them are pretty ordinary. Once people realize I'm a pretty regular person, they almost taper off.. lose interest. I wasn't this exciting thing they thought I was. In turn.. I don't feel very exciting or interesting, either...

It scares me a bit to mix that with the "play-thing" mentality INTPs seem to have. Once the puzzle is solved.. Do they frame it and admire their work everyday? Or does it just sit on the shelf and collect dust because they're bored of it?

I could be entirely wrong on this.. I don't know any INTPs IRL.. but. Based on things INTPs have said here, it would concern me on a romantic note. I couldn't care less if they were just friends.

Really interesting post. First, I think in terms of your "shinyness" wearing off, nobody understands that more than an INTP. When we meet new people, we have to put on our "extrovert face", knowing all the time that we aren't really "shiny" at all. It took me a lot of years to get comfortable enough to let dates/partners see how I really am - in my home. Very "non-shiny". Initially when I would date, I would always want to go out to a place that was quiet and reserved, but where I could kind of show the shiny side.

I've had this recurring thing with ENFP women where we have a total blast together for several weeks (maybe even months) - when Ne and Ne get together, often times fireworks go off. But, then after that wore off, they would want to date - one even thought we had already been dating, when there was neither a discussion about such a thing, nor physical contact of any kind. I've been the one to "fall in love" before, but it just so happens with the ENFP's I've known, I wasn't into them in that way. I'm saying all of this just to illustrate this point: once they knew that I wasn't interested romantically, they weren't interested at all anymore. It was like they either wanted to make me their man or else I was just a piece of trash to be thrown out with the garbage - nothing in between. But, I saw so much value in them and in their friendship. It was like they wanted what they wanted out of me or nothing at all.

I'm not saying this to point out flaws in ENFP's - and besides, the thread is about what you guys think about us, not the other way around. I'm just saying that the ones I've known have been awesome! Really interesting people that I wish I could still be close with - as friends. It's just that the NFP/NTP relationship is such a strange one. It's often full of passion and fireworks (even if only a friendship), but be careful because it can often crash and burn and result in a lot of hurt one way or the other. Relationships cannot maintain that extremely high level of intensity and passion forever. Eventually people have to get back to being "normal".

So, on a related note, if you ever find yourself dating an INTP, I wouldn't worry much about your "shinyness" wearing off. In fact, it would behoove you (and the INTP) to show the "regular, normal, boring" part of yourself very early on in the friendship. Don't wait. Show that you are normal and that you like to chill out and be normal and watch TV, etc. And then mix in some moments of your passionate side as well. But, don't try to be "shiny" 24/7 for 3 months straight and then collapse in exhaustion. That's what often dooms the relationship. INTP's love to be low-key and to get away from high-energy environments. So, I would even argue that we don't want someone that's shiny all the time. It would be too much.

NFP/NTP relationships can be great IMO, there just has to be balance right from the start. When it starts going to cloud 9 on day 1, we have to make sure that we preserve energy, be real and true to ourselves (not always shiny), and take it slow.

 

[think2much]

Concerning INTPs I've known.....(sorry so long....found it easier to copy + paste from a post elsewhere online)

We definitely connected intellectually; a major plus was that we both could discuss these interests (ie. literature, art, music, philosophy, science, etc), and we were both able to be open about our feelings. Even they were surprised at how open they were (but I get that with people a lot). I could also be cynical in my expressions without criticism from one INTP, and he'd do the same with me....we'd egg each other on actually, and then both end up talking the other out of such a negative mindset. Most people would just correct me immediately or write me off as a downer, which I find frustrating. Neither of us offered the other cliche advice either...there was just a listening, an understanding, and then a confirmation of the other's own realization for a solution.

The downside was the "button pushing". The INTPs I dealt with could get belligerent, and would become condescending in asserting their beliefs. The logic blinders would go on, and they'd get so "objective" with their opinions that they'd forget who they were talking to and end up totally insulting my intelligence, even berating me. I realize it was a sort of "intellectual venting", but having that taken out on me was exhausting, and it became downright verbally abusive at times (including rather petty, vicious name calling from the INTP). Then they'd get mad because I'd take it "personally", but they made it personal by attacking my views & character so they could soothe their pent up anger at the irrational world.

I also got tired of having to explain in detail every belief/feeling I had. If I was not up to making an argument for every belief I expressed, then my feelings were dismissed by them. I find that disrespectful and degrading. I don't owe an explanation of every belief I have, and it's a courtesy when I do consent to explain my views. Just because I don't explain my thinking does not make it unreasonable, but the INTPs would not accept that, and they'd needle and needle me until I got mad (and most people call me patient in this respect). Sometimes to break my feelings down into purely intellectual terms is nearly impossible, or it would take such large amount of explanation that it would drain me to try. When I decline to explain myself, it is not because I don't have a good reason; it's that I don't have the energy. I especially won't use that energy if I suspect it will just be dismissed anyway, since it comes from an evaluative, idealistic reasoning (as opposed to dry, black & white logic). I didn't ask the INTPs to put their reasoning into feeling terms, and I'm perfectly capable of seeing the validity in their thoughts, so I can't see why they were so obtuse to mine (where is their Ne?!).

I don't even mind being probed a bit. What I dislike is this sort of "prove it to me" attitude, as if the INTP is the sole arbiter of all that is true in the world. I need someone to respect me as an intellectual peer. I don't mind explaining my reasoning process to a point, but I do mind the condescending attitude. I don't have a hard time grasping the reasoning of another person & their perspective, without it being detailed & broken down completely. I suppose INFPs are seeking a holistic grasp of their viewpoint, and I don't see why Ne is failing the INTP there. I suspect the pedantic approach stems from some insecurity of theirs; I don't know what else to chalk it up to. They didn't seem to learn to ever give the benefit of the doubt, even with people they generally respect. Funny how they could not stand the same scrutiny in return though.... It just all seemed arrogant and hypocritical to me.

Another major problem was, these INTPs would never apologize & never admit when they were wrong. They'd always make some excuse instead of owning up to a mistake. This can be a weak spot in me also, but hanging out with them highlighted my compassionate & humble side. They'd also seem very unaware or in denial of their own emotional motivations. Emotional motivations come through loud & clear to an INFP, like nails on a chalkboard, and when someone claims they are objective or unbiased when they are not, it just seems delusional & arrogant. Basically, the tiffs which ended these relationships could have been resolved with a sincere apology & admitting of an irrational moment. I found myself making peace, but I never saw an effort on their part, so I'd cut them out of my life. It's needs to be a two-way street when it comes to compromise.

One INTP learned to let things go and the relationship went along well, but he was in therapy and on meds at the time (he has a LOT of issues from childhood trauma...). Then he got the bright idea to quit both, and it all went downhill very fast (he was VERY emotionally unstable). I sometimes got the feeling he was so insecure that he wanted to come to hate me so he could reject me before I rejected him. It seemed like he picked arguments for this reason....if he could see me as shallow, stupid, and unreasonable as he saw most people, then he could get over me and not risk any hurt. Sometimes he would get mad if I agreed with him. It's like he wanted me to disagree so we could argue. I get the impression it made him feel less "unique" when people actually did understand his views (no doubt he was a 5w4).

My uncle is also INTP, and unique to him compared to the above guys is the way his inferior Fe plays out (probably as he's older). He is super sensitive to rudeness in others, yet oblivious to his own rudeness (which he has a rep for in the family). I've noticed this with INTPs online also. They can be flippant, rude, offensive, etc, but if someone else is, then they are horrified. Major blind spot I guess... My uncle is more stable emotionally than the other INTPs I've dealt with, but just as condescending and dismissive.

Anyway, I do best with them when I keep them at arm's length. I've been casual friends with an InTP since kindergarten, and we get along fine, but we have no real connection beyond interacting socially in groups.

that sounds like me